Recant

[jesusfreak3786]

Sure. I'd be willing to lie and say I wasn't a Pagan any more to keep my life. Of course, if I thought I'd die no matter what I said, I'd probably stick with the truth. But if the Christian Reconstructionists ever took over in my area, you bet I'd lie and say I was a Christian. My daughter is better off with her mother alive.

That is a carnal veiw. Can you see the main diffrence between the posts of the christians and the non-chriatians? One regards thier life in Heaven more than thier life in earth, the other regards thier life on earth more than a possable life in Heaven.

 

[joebudda]

That is a carnal veiw. Can you see the main diffrence between the posts of the christians and the non-chriatians? One regards thier life in Heaven more than thier life in earth, the other regards thier life on earth more than a possable life in Heaven.

Unless someone can prove to me there is a heaven I am inclined to make this life the best it can be without the luxury of slacking off and hoping for something better at a later date.

Until then heaven and hell are only concepts of comfort for the believer. This way the believer can believe the people who the believer deems as good and bad will go to the perspective justice the believer feels they deserve.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Unless someone can prove to me there is a heaven I am inclined to make this life the best it can be without the luxury of slacking off and hoping for something better at a later date.

And how exactly do you think that being a christian is slacking off in the carnal life?

Until then heaven and hell are only concepts of comfort for the believer. This way the believer can believe the people who the believer deems as good and bad will go to the perspective justice the believer feels they deserve.

Christians are not supposed to judge either way.

 

[Lokisdottir]

That is a carnal veiw. Can you see the main diffrence between the posts of the christians and the non-chriatians? One regards thier life in Heaven more than thier life in earth, the other regards thier life on earth more than a possable life in Heaven.

The difference is that most Pagans do not believe they will be damned if they recant. Actually, most don't believe in damnation at all.

Personally, I wouldn't recant, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone who did.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

The difference is that most Pagans do not believe they will be damned if they recant. Actually, most don't believe in damnation at all.

Just because someone doesn't believe in something doesn't mean that it isn't true.

Personally, I wouldn't recant, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone who did.

right on, no one has the right to judge.

 

[Lokisdottir]

Just because someone doesn't believe in something doesn't mean that it isn't true.

But it IS true that most Pagan gods are not going to throw a hissy fit if their followers recant under threat of torture or death.

I'd imagine Odin would be ticked off, but still no punishment involved as far as I know.

 

[]RiSeN[]

Could a person even recant his faith on command?

Matthew 26
Then Jesus said to them: "All of YOU will be stumbled in connection with me on this night, for it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered about.’ 32 But after I have been raised up, I will go ahead of YOU into Gal´i·lee." 33 But Peter, in answer, said to him: "Although all the others are stumbled in connection with you, never will I be stumbled!" 34 Jesus said to him: "Truly I say to you, On this night, before a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows, you will disown me three times." 35 Peter said to him: "Even if I should have to die with you, I will by no means disown you." All the other disciples also said the same thing

 

[jesusfreak3786]

But it IS true that most Pagan gods are not going to throw a hissy fit if their followers recant under threat of torture or death.

I'd imagine Odin would be ticked off, but still no punishment involved as far as I know.

That is because pgan "gods" are born from the imaginations of men, which please themselves.

 

[Rae]

That is because pgan "gods" are born from the imaginations of men

In your biased opinion, yes.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

In your biased opinion, yes.

It is the truth, but I don't expect you to agree.

 

[]RiSeN[]

Sure. I'd be willing to lie and say I wasn't a Pagan any more to keep my life. Of course, if I thought I'd die no matter what I said, I'd probably stick with the truth. But if the Christian Reconstructionists ever took over in my area, you bet I'd lie and say I was a Christian. My daughter is better off with her mother alive.

The point is not how your response echos with those who "kill the flesh", but with those who "murder the soul". This topic is irrelivant to you as you have no loyalty to any but you and yours. The christian put his loyalty to God even before that of his fellow man.

 

[wowbagger]

I don't agree with that, under no circumstances should a christian recant.

Under NO circumstances? Do you really believe you could do that? It sounds pretty selfish if you ask me. What if:

You are commanded to recant or your 3 young daughters will be violently raped and tortured in front of you until you do. Maybe for weeks (until they are certain to die from trauma and exhaustion). Imagine their desperate pleas for help looking at you to save them from unimaginable pain and agony.
What do you do?

If you really think you would not recant, I don't think you are human. In fact, I think you would spend some time in jail for such a thing.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Under NO circumstances? Do you really believe you could do that? It sounds pretty selfish if you ask me. What if:

You are commanded to recant or your 3 young daughters will be violently raped and tortured in front of you until you do. Maybe for weeks (until they are certain to die from trauma and exhaustion). Imagine their deperate pleas for help looking at you to save them from their pain and agony.
What do you do?

If you really think you would not recant, I don't think you are human. In fact, I think you would spend some time in jail for such a thing.

I will not recant my faith under any circumstance. God willing. He will give me and my daughters strength to rejoyce in whats to come, and trust thru what is happening, with a forgiving heart. You can hate me for it if you want.
I have sacrifieced my life to God, I will not gain it for myself. I am not the one hurting the children, the murderers are the ones who place such a stipulation.

 

[Rae]

It is the truth

In your opinion, yes. In mine, no.

This topic is irrelivant to you as you have no loyalty to any but you and yours.

Hey, at least my Gods don't demand that I kill myself and sacrifice my family's lives by declaring loyalty to them in the face of insanity. That's gotta be worth something. Besides, outward words aren't a sign of loyalty. Those who shout loudest about their love frequently are the ones who leave those they claim to "love" fastest.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

In your opinion, yes. In mine, no.


Hey, at least my Gods don't demand that I kill myself and sacrifice my family's lives by declaring loyalty to them in the face of insanity. That's gotta be worth something. Besides, outward words aren't a sign of loyalty. Those who shout loudest about their love frequently are the ones who leave those they claim to "love" fastest.

God does not demand such a thing, you are not bound by it are you? Also the situation would not even exist if there weren't poeple that are willing to torture and kill someone for thier beliefes. A true christian is peacful, and would never murder someone for thier beliefes, some so called christians have, but you deciede for yourself, do they have the love of God in them?

 

[Rae]

God does not demand such a thing

Everything you've said in this thread seems to say so, though. You say you'd refuse to deny being a Christian even if your whole family were murdered for it, and someone else has posted Scripture indicating that this is what your God demands. Personally, I believe that making a false statement under duress to save lives isn't evil or bad or wrong, and I would gladly do so even if it meant giving a false impression of my religious beliefs.

 

[]RiSeN[]

Under NO circumstances? Do you really believe you could do that? It sounds pretty selfish if you ask me. What if:

You are commanded to recant or your 3 young daughters will be violently raped and tortured in front of you until you do. Maybe for weeks (until they are certain to die from trauma and exhaustion). Imagine their desperate pleas for help looking at you to save them from unimaginable pain and agony.
What do you do?

If you really think you would not recant, I don't think you are human. In fact, I think you would spend some time in jail for such a thing.

First off, What the ____ is wrong with YOU for making up such a graphic hypothetical? Someone might need some jail time alright.

God and His ways and promises are beyond your logic and reasoning pattern.

"Looking them in the face, Jesus said to them: "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." -Matthew 19:26

"He said to them: "Because of YOUR little faith. For truly I say to YOU, If YOU have faith the size of a mustard grain, YOU will say to this mountain, ‘Transfer from here to there,’ and it will transfer, and nothing will be impossible for YOU." -Matthew 17:20

"This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my soul, in order that I may receive it again. No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father." -John 10:17-18

"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen´na. Do not two sparrows sell for a coin of small value? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without YOUR Father’s [knowledge]. But the very hairs of YOUR head are all numbered. Therefore have no fear: YOU are worth more than many sparrows" -Matthew 10:28.

"Jesus said: "Truly I say to YOU men, No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get a hundredfold now in this period of time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, with persecutions, and in the coming system of things everlasting life." -Matthew 10:29-30

 

[]RiSeN[]

In your opinion, yes. In mine, no.


Hey, at least my Gods don't demand that I kill myself and sacrifice my family's lives by declaring loyalty to them in the face of insanity. That's gotta be worth something. Besides, outward words aren't a sign of loyalty. Those who shout loudest about their love frequently are the ones who leave those they claim to "love" fastest.

Do you serve your gods, or do your gods simply serve your purpose?

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Everything you've said in this thread seems to say so, though. You say you'd refuse to deny being a Christian even if your whole family were murdered for it, and someone else has posted Scripture indicating that this is what your God demands. Personally, I believe that making a false statement under duress to save lives isn't evil or bad or wrong, and I would gladly do so even if it meant giving a false impression of my religious beliefs.

Like I said in my previous post, are you bound by it? I willingly give my life up, I don't wnat it back, and I trust my Father. If you go to a job interview, and you are told that in order to be accepted you have to preform certian duties, and be able to resolve to the attitude of the work, you have a choice on whether or not you accept it, but if you want the Job then you will. God gives us the spiritual streanght to become what we need to become by His hands, to enter Heaven. PRAISE GOD!!!!!

 

[]RiSeN[]

Everything you've said in this thread seems to say so, though. You say you'd refuse to deny being a Christian even if your whole family were murdered for it, and someone else has posted Scripture indicating that this is what your God demands. Personally, I believe that making a false statement under duress to save lives isn't evil or bad or wrong, and I would gladly do so even if it meant giving a false impression of my religious beliefs.

Then they are not your beliefs but only your opinion. You should also take in to account the reason behind the persons request of your recanting.