rebuttal for specific OSAS verse needed!

[I can eat 50 eggs]

hey guys, I got in a debate with my asst pastor about OSAS, I need a way to respond to
2 tim 2 12-13

he says this

The verse I read last night that I feel like seals it is 2 Tim. 2:12-13

v. 12 talk about “if we endure” and “if we deny Him, He will also deny us.” Which doesn’t sound good for eternal security

But in the middle of that context verse 13 says, “if we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.”

That seems to solidly indicate that those who are his, who find their identity in Him (Rom. 6:5), He will always be faithful to, no matter what the condition of their faith is.

It seems like its saying that those who deny Him were never His anyway.

I looked it up, and that book I was telling you about uses this verse this way too, so I know I’m not the only one thinking about this verse in this way.

What do you think?

responses? rebuttals?

 

[Ampmonster]

they can peice together any theory jumping around like that.

lets see
2TIM2[12] if we endure, we shall also reign with him;
if we deny him, he also will deny us;
[13] if we are faithless, he remains faithful --
for he cannot deny himself.

that say hes always faithful, not always saved. Gods always there if you come back to him, i guess. but you aint always saved.

ROM[5]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

uhhhh. im sure "we' here implies people who are faithful and consistantlyin the church. not people who say "Jesus is my savior" once and ignore everything else he ever said about his kingdom.
thats my opinion, but im a bible noob

 

[Debi1967]

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html



When in doubt I always go to this .....there are so many scriptures here that it will make your head spin....So see if anything here can help you.......

 

[RhetorTheo]

Explanation 1:

There are four possibilities:
(1) You and God continue walking on the road of salvation
(2) You leave God, but he continues on the road
(3) God leaves the road, but you continue on the road
(4) You and God both leave the road

The verse tells you what will happen under 1 (reign together with God) and 2 (God will deny you). And it tells you that 3 and 4 are impossible, because God will always remain faithful.

Explanation 2:

This means that there are some actions that are sinful but do not end your salvation (being "unfaithful"), but other actions will cut you off from salvation ("denying Christ").

The verses don't explain where the line is drawn, but it's reasonably clear that outright denying your faith and continuing in denial would result in Christ denying you before the judgment seat (salvation is lost), while minor sins would not cause Jesus to deny you before the judgment seat. This is not OSAS.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

good stuff guys, thanks,keep it coming.

 

[Miss Shelby]

But in the middle of that context verse 13 says, “if we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.”

eggs,

If we are faithless what does He remain faithful to? Our faithlessness? NO. To His Word. To Himself, to the teaching of salvation that has been handed down through the ages. He remains faithful to what is true. (our faithlessness is NOT what is true)-- He cannot deny Himself.

Michelle