ARE YOU DENYING WHAT 2 TIM 2:12

[Dan Perez]

2 Tim 2:12 reads , If we ENDURE , we will REIGN together , if we DENY ( Him ) , He also will DENY us , verse 13 , If we are DISBELIEVERS that One remains faithful , He is not able to DENY Himself .

In verse 15 we have to present yourself ACCEPTED BY God , a workman HAVING no cause for SHAME rightly dividing the WORD of truth '

Verse 17 mentioned by name , Hymenaeus and Philetus , v 18 who missed the mark concerning the TRUTH , saying the RESURRECTION has already HAPPENNED .

Reading 2 Thess 2:2 letters supposedly written by Paul saying that THE DAY of the Lord or that the COMING / PAROUSIA is close at hand .

I believe that the word DENYING is to deny what is called in Rom 16:25 Preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING to the REVELATION of the MYSTERY .

And as verse 16 says , having made known to ALL Gentiles for OBEDIENCE of FAITH .

dan p

 

[ViaCrucis]

2 Tim 2:12 reads , If we ENDURE , we will REIGN together , if we DENY ( Him ) , He also will DENY us , verse 13 , If we are DISBELIEVERS that One remains faithful , He is not able to DENY Himself .

In verse 15 we have to present yourself ACCEPTED BY God , a workman HAVING no cause for SHAME rightly dividing the WORD of truth '

Verse 17 mentioned by name , Hymenaeus and Philetus , v 18 who missed the mark concerning the TRUTH , saying the RESURRECTION has already HAPPENNED .

Reading 2 Thess 2:2 letters supposedly written by Paul saying that THE DAY of the Lord or that the COMING / PAROUSIA is close at hand .

I believe that the word DENYING is to deny what is called in Rom 16:25 Preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING to the REVELATION of the MYSTERY .

And as verse 16 says , having made known to ALL Gentiles for OBEDIENCE of FAITH .

dan p

1. Context: 2 Timothy is one of Paul's pastoral epistles, this is the second he wrote to his protege' and disciple Timothy. Essential to understanding these letters to Timothy is that Timothy was a pastor, that is why they are called "pastoral epistles". Paul is specifically setting out instruction, teaching, and advice to Timothy, and it is specifically pastoral advice and instruction for how Timothy is to fulfill his vocation as a pastor. That is why he tells Timothy that Scripture is useful for rebuke, correction, etc, that Timothy is to preach the word both in and out of season, and also here to "rightly divide the word of truth". Paul is saying to Timothy to live out his calling and vocation as a pastor by doing the things he should be doing. Rightly dividing the word of truth, for example, is about how to properly exercise discretion when reading and preaching and using Scripture, it's what we would call hermeneutics and exegesis.

Therefore, Timothy is to present himself acceptable before God in his vocation as a pastor, by exercising the office and ministry to which he has been given the responsibility of. That is what 2 Timothy 2:15 is talking about.

2. Now the meaning of 2 Timothy 2:12, if we throw away our salvation by rejecting and denying Christ then, yes, we have become apostate and have throw away our faith. If we do that then we don't have a place with Him. In Christ we are already seated in heavenly places with Him (Ephesians 2:6), and when He comes again in glory on the future day and we are raised up incorruptible in the body, we shall share in the life of the Age to Come; but apart from Him we do not have this hope or promise. Consistently Scripture teaches that it is only through faith in Christ, abiding in Christ, that we have life, "Apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), He says that whoever believes in Him, whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood, whoever is His belongs to Him and He will raise them up on the last day (See the Bread of Life Discourse, John 6:25-65), etc.

There isn't some secret code that needs deciphering here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

2 Tim 2:12 reads , If we ENDURE , we will REIGN together , if we DENY ( Him ) , He also will DENY us , verse 13 , If we are DISBELIEVERS that One remains faithful , He is not able to DENY Himself .
In verse 15 we have to present yourself ACCEPTED BY God , a workman HAVING no cause for SHAME rightly dividing the WORD of truth '
Verse 17 mentioned by name , Hymenaeus and Philetus , v 18 who missed the mark concerning the TRUTH , saying the RESURRECTION has already HAPPENNED .

Reading 2 Thess 2:2 letters supposedly written by Paul saying that THE DAY of the Lord or that the COMING / PAROUSIA is close at hand .
I believe that the word DENYING is to deny what is called in Rom 16:25 Preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING to the REVELATION of the MYSTERY .
And as verse 16 says , having made known to ALL Gentiles for OBEDIENCE of FAITH .

That "mystery" is interpreted in 1 Co 2.

 

[Dan Perez]

1. Context: 2 Timothy is one of Paul's pastoral epistles, this is the second he wrote to his protege' and disciple Timothy. Essential to understanding these letters to Timothy is that Timothy was a pastor, that is why they are called "pastoral epistles". Paul is specifically setting out instruction, teaching, and advice to Timothy, and it is specifically pastoral advice and instruction for how Timothy is to fulfill his vocation as a pastor. That is why he tells Timothy that Scripture is useful for rebuke, correction, etc, that Timothy is to preach the word both in and out of season, and also here to "rightly divide the word of truth". Paul is saying to Timothy to live out his calling and vocation as a pastor by doing the things he should be doing. Rightly dividing the word of truth, for example, is about how to properly exercise discretion when reading and preaching and using Scripture, it's what we would call hermeneutics and exegesis.

Therefore, Timothy is to present himself acceptable before God in his vocation as a pastor, by exercising the office and ministry to which he has been given the responsibility of. That is what 2 Timothy 2:15 is talking about.

2. Now the meaning of 2 Timothy 2:12, if we throw away our salvation by rejecting and denying Christ then, yes, we have become apostate and have throw away our faith. If we do that then we don't have a place with Him. In Christ we are already seated in heavenly places with Him (Ephesians 2:6), and when He comes again in glory on the future day and we are raised up incorruptible in the body, we shall share in the life of the Age to Come; but apart from Him we do not have this hope or promise. Consistently Scripture teaches that it is only through faith in Christ, abiding in Christ, that we have life, "Apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), He says that whoever believes in Him, whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood, whoever is His belongs to Him and He will raise them up on the last day (See the Bread of Life Discourse, John 6:25-65), etc.

There isn't some secret code that needs deciphering here.

-CryptoLutheran

Rev 13:8 slain BEFORE the foundation 0f the world !

One , is who is the first person in the B O C is a mystery to many .

Where ATONEMENT began , is not a secret code is it ?

Or why Jesus had to be water baptized , seems a secret code , and what are your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[BobRyan]

Rightly dividing the word of truth, for example, is about how to properly exercise discretion when reading and preaching and using Scripture, it's what we would call hermeneutics and exegesis.

True. Instead of being "well what does the Methodist or Catholic or ... church teach" it is "what does the Bible say?" and it is "what is the best method for getting an objective rendering of the text?" (ie -- exegesis)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Rev 13:8 slain BEFORE the foundation 0f the world !

Yes. Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. For through one man's disobedience came sin and death, so through the one Man's obedience has come justification and resurrection to life. So that in Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive.

One , is who is the first person in the B O C is a mystery to many .

It took me a moment to figure out what BOC was, but I assume it means Body of Christ. I don't think there is a first person, but I suppose if there has to be a "first Christian" then that would go to the Blessed Virgin Mary, for she is the first to believe in her Son. Though since all who are in Christ are in His Body, then we could also say that honor goes to Adam and/or Eve; for the promise of redemption through Christ is first preached by God that Eve's progeny would crush the serpent's head.

I don't know that it's a mystery, but there are different answers depending on how you want to look at it. It also probably doesn't matter.

Where ATONEMENT began , is not a secret code is it ?

Christ's holy death on the cross isn't a secret code, no. Which is where He made atonement for us, reconciling us to the Father and freely justifying us.

Or why Jesus had to be water baptized , seems a secret code , and what are your thoughts ??

dan p

I don't think there's any secret code in Jesus' receiving baptism from St. John the Baptist, it was "to fulfill all righteousness". Christ did not need to repent in the preparation of His own coming, which is what John's baptism was all about; but in receiving a baptism by John Christ sums up John's work and inaugurates His own. Further, it points to Christian baptism in "the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit", for there in the water was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son baptized, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove. Thus here begins Jesus' messianic work, bringing a close to what came before and ushering in the new.

But what does any of this have to do with what Paul is saying to St. Timothy?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think there's any secret code in Jesus' receiving baptism from St. John the Baptist, it was "to fulfill all righteousness". Christ did not need to repent in the preparation of His own coming, which is what John's baptism was all about; but in receiving a baptism by John Christ sums up John's work and inaugurates His own. Further, it points to Christian baptism in "the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit", for there in the water was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son baptized, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove. Thus here begins Jesus' messianic work, bringing a close to what came before and ushering in the new.

But what does any of this have to do with what Paul is saying to St. Timothy?

-CryptoLutheran

As R.C. Sproul points out in his debate with John MacArthur over infant baptism -- "infant baptism is not found in the Bible". Which is kind of interesting since Sproul was arguing for it and MacArthur against it.

 

[Dan Perez]

Yes. Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. For through one man's disobedience came sin and death, so through the one Man's obedience has come justification and resurrection to life. So that in Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive.



It took me a moment to figure out what BOC was, but I assume it means Body of Christ. I don't think there is a first person, but I suppose if there has to be a "first Christian" then that would go to the Blessed Virgin Mary, for she is the first to believe in her Son. Though since all who are in Christ are in His Body, then we could also say that honor goes to Adam and/or Eve; for the promise of redemption through Christ is first preached by God that Eve's progeny would crush the serpent's head.

I don't know that it's a mystery, but there are different answers depending on how you want to look at it. It also probably doesn't matter.



Christ's holy death on the cross isn't a secret code, no. Which is where He made atonement for us, reconciling us to the Father and freely justifying us.



I don't think there's any secret code in Jesus' receiving baptism from St. John the Baptist, it was "to fulfill all righteousness". Christ did not need to repent in the preparation of His own coming, which is what John's baptism was all about; but in receiving a baptism by John Christ sums up John's work and inaugurates His own. Further, it points to Christian baptism in "the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit", for there in the water was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son baptized, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove. Thus here begins Jesus' messianic work, bringing a close to what came before and ushering in the new.

But what does any of this have to do with what Paul is saying to St. Timothy?

-CryptoLutheran

John 1:31 reads , And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE MANIFEST to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with WAYER .

We then see that WATER BAPTIZING was given to Israel and not GIVEN to the BODY OF CHRIST .

In Acys 2:38 , all Jews have to be WATER BAPTIZED and REPENT .

Did Jesus have any thing to REPENT of , then why did John WATER BAPTIZE Him ?


One answer is to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUNESS , and what does that mean ?

dan p

 

[ViaCrucis]

John 1:31 reads , And I knew Him not , but that He should be MADE MANIFEST to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with WAYER .

We then see that WATER BAPTIZING was given to Israel and not GIVEN to the BODY OF CHRIST .

No. We see that John's prophetic ministry was involved a baptism of repentance looking forward in the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah.

Christ Himself instituted Baptism when He said "make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit"

In Acys 2:38 , all Jews have to be WATER BAPTIZED and REPENT .

Read verse 39 too. It says "this promise is for you and for your children, and to all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself". This is Christian Baptism, which is for the forgiveness of sins. And it wasn't just for Jews converting to Christianity, but for everyone, "to all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call".

Did Jesus have any thing to REPENT of , then why did John WATER BAPTIZE Him ?

I already addressed this in my previous post. It was to fulfill all righteousness, bringing John's mission to a close, and Christ's ministry beginning.

One answer is to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUNESS , and what does that mean ?

dan p

That's already been addressed, see both my above statement right above this, and also earlier post.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

No. We see that John's prophetic ministry was involved a baptism of repentance looking forward in the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah.
Christ Himself instituted Baptism when He said "make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit"
Read verse 39 too. It says "this promise is for you and for your children, and to all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself". This is Christian Baptism, which is for the forgiveness of sins. And it wasn't just for Jews converting to Christianity, but for everyone, "to all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call".

Peter is referring to the promise of the Holy Spirit (vv. 33, 38, Gal 3:14).

I already addressed this in my previous post. It was to fulfill all righteousness, bringing John's mission to a close, and Christ's ministry beginning.

That's already been addressed, see both my above statement right above this, and also earlier post.

To fulfill all righteousness is to do all that is required by God for he had to be a perfect sacrifice.

 

[Dan Perez]

Peter is referring to the promise of the Holy Spirit (vv. 33, 38, Gal 3:14).

To fulfill all righteousness is to do all that is required by God for he had to be a perfect sacrifice.

And that is not what Gal 3:14 means , so what to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS than mean .

Christ had to fulfil all righteousness of the Law of Moses where all PRIESTS TO BE CLEAN before that Priest could perform his duty and that meant to WASH his FEET and Hands .

Christ is was was a priest after for ever the order of MELCHISEDEC Heb 5:6-10 .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And that is not what Gal 3:14 means , so what to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS than mean .

Christ had to fulfil all righteousness of the Law of Moses where all PRIESTS TO BE CLEAN before that Priest could perform his duty and that meant to WASH his FEET and Hands .

Christ is was was a priest after for ever the order of MELCHISEDEC Heb 5:6-10 .

dan p

You're confused. . .review my post.

 

[Dan Perez]

You're confused. . .review my post.

In John 1:31 BAPTISM with WATER was ONLY given to Israel and not given to GENTILES , or you have a verse that I MISSED ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

In John 1:31 BAPTISM with WATER was ONLY given to Israel and not given to GENTILES , or you have a verse that I MISSED ?

I guess Peter, Paul, Philip, etc. didn't get the memo (Ac 8:36-38, Ac 10:47-48, Ac 16:14-15, Ac 16:33, etc.).

 

[Dan Perez]

I guess Peter, Paul, Philip, etc. didn't get the memo (Ac 8:36-38, Ac 10:47-48, Ac 16:14-15, Ac 16:33, etc.).

Then , you believe that Paul NEVER received the MEMO , so you must has a verse , so share ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Then , you believe that Paul NEVER received the MEMO , so you must has a verse , so share ?

dan p

See the reply to which you are responding.