evolution needs new information added to animals to be evolved. No new information is added to an animal. When this world started, different kinds of animals contained all the information of the gene pool in order to have that kind of animal survive in many different types of environments. A piece of the gene pool is taken to give characteristics to the animal to survive in a cold environment or warm environment. No new information is added, that is why a dog will never have an offspring with feathers because it doesnt have the information to pass down the feather trait to its offspring.
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Reason why evolution can not happen
- Thread starter soysauce
- Start date
I
Ishmael Borg
Guest
Standard Ishmael Response:soysauce said:
Where in scripture is this genetic theory outlined? Or are you just making it up?
Upvote
0
You seem to not know how cells replicate and how mutations work. A quick search on "cell replication" turns up with this:
Cell replication is not a very complicated subject at root (which is why we Swedish students study it in 9th grade). However, there are some creationist sites that make wild claims. One such claim is that mutations in cells are unable to add new information. They argue that if mutations were true, everyone would become a mutant and die. This essay posits that the claims of "cells are unable to add new information" and its corollary, "everyone would become a mutant and die," are false.
Firstly, we are built of different sorts of cells (liver cells, brain cells etc). Each cell has a core called the nucleus where DNA is located. DNA is the blueprint of our body, and all cells contain DNA inherited from our parents. Different parts of the DNA are active or inactive depending on the cell's purpose (i.e. liver and brain cells contain the same DNA, but different parts of the DNA are active). DNA is a long strand made of carbohydrates and nitrogenous bases. There are four different types of nitrogenous bases: guanine, cytosine, adenine, and thymine (abbreviated G, C, A, and T respectively). The nitrogenous bases fit together on the DNA strand as shown in the picture below. Notice that A pairs with T only, and G pairs with C only. Any other combination is impossible due to the fact that if they were paired differently, the double strand would be too short of too long in places. Only when the pairings are A-T and G-C is the DNA an appropriate size.
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/brewer/images/
DNA is filled with both active and inactive sequences. The active sequences are regularly used to send information to the ribosomes, which create the amino acids that are needed to form proteins. As their namesake implies, inactive sequences do nothing.
Cells have a certain life span, and must replenish their numbers by replication. Replication begins by the double stranded DNA denaturing (separating into two strands). Each half then rebuilds the opposing side then the fully formed DNA moves into its own cellcore (the whole cell duplicates itself but I will focus on what happens in the core since that is the only part pertinent to mutations).
Most mutations occur when the DNA halves rebuild the opposing side. The chance of is around 1/10^11. There are approximately 6 billion basepairs in each cell, meaning a mutation should occur every 20th replication cycle. The most common mutation is a point mutation: only one base pair is changed. On average, every cell divides 30 times, which means each cell should contain one or two mutations on average.
If there are so many mutations in our body, how are we able to keep on living? Do not these mutations kill us, as the creationist websites conclude? No, and the reason for this is simply that most mutations have little or no effect whatsoever. A mutation is most likely to occur in an inactive region since inactive regions comprise most of our genome. This means that nothing happens. If a mutation does occur in an active region, it is possible that the change is ineffectual since different genes can create the same amino acid. For example, a mutation may occur in the sequence ACG, in which the C is removed, but it is just replaced by another C. In other cases, ACG may be altered to CCG. Still, there is no effect since many nucleotide triplets code for the same amino acid. In the case where the mutation does change the nucleotide triplet, the protein produced (or not produced) may either help or hinder our bodily functions.
The claims of the creationist websites are outlandish and embarrassing in light of reality. As evidneced in this paper, mutations occur, which add or subtract new information to the cell. And these mutations, most of the time, have no effect at all, much less a deleterious one
http://www.christianforums.com/t69514&highlight=cell+replication
Cell replication is not a very complicated subject at root (which is why we Swedish students study it in 9th grade). However, there are some creationist sites that make wild claims. One such claim is that mutations in cells are unable to add new information. They argue that if mutations were true, everyone would become a mutant and die. This essay posits that the claims of "cells are unable to add new information" and its corollary, "everyone would become a mutant and die," are false.
Firstly, we are built of different sorts of cells (liver cells, brain cells etc). Each cell has a core called the nucleus where DNA is located. DNA is the blueprint of our body, and all cells contain DNA inherited from our parents. Different parts of the DNA are active or inactive depending on the cell's purpose (i.e. liver and brain cells contain the same DNA, but different parts of the DNA are active). DNA is a long strand made of carbohydrates and nitrogenous bases. There are four different types of nitrogenous bases: guanine, cytosine, adenine, and thymine (abbreviated G, C, A, and T respectively). The nitrogenous bases fit together on the DNA strand as shown in the picture below. Notice that A pairs with T only, and G pairs with C only. Any other combination is impossible due to the fact that if they were paired differently, the double strand would be too short of too long in places. Only when the pairings are A-T and G-C is the DNA an appropriate size.
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/brewer/images/
DNA is filled with both active and inactive sequences. The active sequences are regularly used to send information to the ribosomes, which create the amino acids that are needed to form proteins. As their namesake implies, inactive sequences do nothing.
Cells have a certain life span, and must replenish their numbers by replication. Replication begins by the double stranded DNA denaturing (separating into two strands). Each half then rebuilds the opposing side then the fully formed DNA moves into its own cellcore (the whole cell duplicates itself but I will focus on what happens in the core since that is the only part pertinent to mutations).
Most mutations occur when the DNA halves rebuild the opposing side. The chance of is around 1/10^11. There are approximately 6 billion basepairs in each cell, meaning a mutation should occur every 20th replication cycle. The most common mutation is a point mutation: only one base pair is changed. On average, every cell divides 30 times, which means each cell should contain one or two mutations on average.
If there are so many mutations in our body, how are we able to keep on living? Do not these mutations kill us, as the creationist websites conclude? No, and the reason for this is simply that most mutations have little or no effect whatsoever. A mutation is most likely to occur in an inactive region since inactive regions comprise most of our genome. This means that nothing happens. If a mutation does occur in an active region, it is possible that the change is ineffectual since different genes can create the same amino acid. For example, a mutation may occur in the sequence ACG, in which the C is removed, but it is just replaced by another C. In other cases, ACG may be altered to CCG. Still, there is no effect since many nucleotide triplets code for the same amino acid. In the case where the mutation does change the nucleotide triplet, the protein produced (or not produced) may either help or hinder our bodily functions.
The claims of the creationist websites are outlandish and embarrassing in light of reality. As evidneced in this paper, mutations occur, which add or subtract new information to the cell. And these mutations, most of the time, have no effect at all, much less a deleterious one
http://www.christianforums.com/t69514&highlight=cell+replication
Upvote
0
Aduro Amnis
Self-proclaimed reincarnation of Eugene V. Debs
X__x Its mutation,
Do you know anything about Chemistry?
Theres is four ways a new substances can happen:
Synthesis - Adding Chemicals to produce new ones <-- What you think Evolutions is.
Exchange - A + B <-> C+D <-- What Evolution is
And Reversible & Decompositoin , but I don't feel like making a description for them
.
Do you know anything about Chemistry?
Theres is four ways a new substances can happen:
Synthesis - Adding Chemicals to produce new ones <-- What you think Evolutions is.
Exchange - A + B <-> C+D <-- What Evolution is
And Reversible & Decompositoin , but I don't feel like making a description for them
.
Upvote
0
Yes it is. Observe:soysauce said:
Gene strand ATG
Error in replication leads to
Gene strand ATGATG
Error in replication leads to
Gene strand ATGAAG
What was originally ATG now reads ATGAAG. Voila, new information.
No, sorry. Often the traits for these are mutually exlusive. A trait that helps an animal survive in hot climates will often make it die more easily in cold climates. Also, think about camoflage.
New information is added. This process has been observed.
Upvote
0
Apart from new genes and promoters: 'The evolution of new genes' http://www.christianforums.com/t81701soysauce said:
Upvote
0
Mutations do not add new information but just scrambles the orginal DNA. Also, it is not productive towards an organism. Fruit flies were mutated thousands of times and they had offsprings w/ no wings, curled wings, no legs...same as mutated cows. Cows sometimes have an extra leg but thats not new information, but just a copy of the original cow information. Information means Knowledge derived from study, experience, or instruction. The DNA gives instuctions to the amino acids to be able to produce proteins. These proteins help create our body.
Upvote
0
Me tinks he be too young to understands; too much Outcomes Based Ed in them English schools.
Upvote
0
soysauce said:
Before you can argue whether genetic "information" can increase or decrease, you must first define it in a manner that is applicable to genetics.
Is genetic information determined by function of the genes? Is it determined by the content of the genes? Is it determined by the amount of genetic material?
If a modification to a gene modified protein production in a manner that changed the way an organism functioned (say, a beneficial change), would this constitute new information?
Upvote
0
It is detemined by the info inthe genes; there is only one directrion this info can go as it cant create of itself new info its natural direction is toward disorder.
Upvote
0
So how do we define new information? Is it the production of a new protein, like in the case of a bacterium that creates an entirely new enzyme that can digest nylon? (this is a famous observed example)soysauce said:
Upvote
0
soysauce said:
And if these "instructions" were changed in a way that modified the traits of an animal (say, in a beneficial manner), would that count as new information? Yes or no.
Upvote
0
You are dodging the question.
Please give us a definition of "new information"
Is new information the addition of genetic material that provides a new beneficial feature to the organism?
Please give us a definition of "new information"
Is new information the addition of genetic material that provides a new beneficial feature to the organism?
Upvote
0
soysauce said:
I see you are now resorting to strawmen. You really shouldn't do that, as it completely undermines your whole argument.
You were talking about genetic information constructing proteins to produce traits in organisms. If it were demonstrated that a genetic change could result in different protein production that resulted in a change in the traits of an organism (a positive change) would this constitute new information? You continue to avoid this simple question.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
