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Reason why evolution can not happen
- Thread starter soysauce
- Start date
The literature i linked to in this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t81701soysauce said:
does give examples of new useful genes that produce functional proteins that are of benefit to the host organism.
Examples of new genes that represent new genetic information are:
fucosyltransferase, jingwei, Tre2, CGβ, Cid , RNASE1B, PGAM3, Pgk2, PMCHL1, PMCHL2, Sphinx, HLA-DR-1, human DAF, lungerkine mRNA, mNSC1 mRNA
acytylneuraminate lysase, Escherichia coli mutU and mutS, Fatty-acid synthesis enzymes, Kua-UEV, Sdic, AFGPs, BC1RNA and BC200RNA.
Your assertions are entirely baseless and false.
Manyuan Long, Esther Betrán, Kevin Thornton and Wen Wang. THE ORIGIN OF NEW GENES: GLIMPSES FROM THE YOUNG AND OLD. NATURE REVIEWS | GENETICS VOLUME 4 | NOVEMBER 2003 | 865.
http://www3.uta.edu/faculty/betran/naturereviews.pdf
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you did not read the above response. if there is a sequence, and it is duplicated, there is now the same info twice. if you mutate,either by replacement or deletion, then you have the old information plus new information.soysauce said:
Not true. if you would like an example of beneficial mutation, i could give you several, as could others heresoy said:
But that information can be altered to make the legs different in some fashion.soy said:
or characters which form a code, like binary. Remove or add ones or zeros, or replace ones or zeros in binary and you have completely changed the message. new informationsoy said:
Thanks. I've had biochemistry.
Single celled organisms can pick up DNA they find lying around and incorporate it into their genome, such as DNA that codes for antibiotic resistance. microorganisms are adding new nfo to their genome all the time, and also discarding pieces of DNA.
Also, wild type plant species can incorporate bioengineered plant DNA into their genome through normal fertilization processes. Yes, Humans put the DNA in. BUT it is the way that evolution works that allows genes to be transferred within a species that confers the adaptation and the possibility to survive natural selection.
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You mean like having antifreeze in the blood:soysauce said:
Evolution of antifreeze glycoprotein gene from a trypsinogen gene in Antarctic
notothenioid fish.
Chen L, DeVries AL, Cheng CH.
Department of Molecular and Integrative Physiology, University of Illinois,
Urbana 61801, USA.
Freezing avoidance conferred by different types of antifreeze proteins in
various polar and subpolar fishes represents a remarkable example of cold
adaptation, but how these unique proteins arose is unknown. We have found that
the antifreeze glycoproteins (AFGPs) of the predominant Antarctic fish taxon,
the notothenioids, evolved from a pancreatic trypsinogen. We have determined the
likely evolutionary process by which this occurred through characterization and
analyses of notothenioid AFGP and trypsinogen genes. The primordial AFGP gene
apparently arose through recruitment of the 5' and 3' ends of an ancestral
trypsinogen gene, which provided the secretory signal and the 3' untranslated
region, respectively, plus de novo amplification of a 9-nt Thr-Ala-Ala coding
element from the trypsinogen progenitor to create a new protein coding region
for the repetitive tripeptide backbone of the antifreeze protein. The small
sequence divergence (4-7%) between notothenioid AFGP and trypsinogen genes
indicates that the transformation of the proteinase gene into the novel
ice-binding protein gene occurred quite recently, about 5-14 million years ago
(mya), which is highly consistent with the estimated times of the freezing of
the Antarctic Ocean at 10-14 mya, and of the main phyletic divergence of the
AFGP-bearing notothenioid families at 7-15 mya. The notothenioid trypsinogen to
AFGP conversion is the first clear example of how an old protein gene spawned a
new gene for an entirely new protein with a new function. It also represents a
rare instance in which protein evolution, organismal adaptation, and
environmental conditions can be linked directly.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/94/8/3811
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soysauce said:
Okay, so how does one define a "feature"? Would resistance to a particular antibiotic or the ability to metabolize a new substance constitute an added feature? Why or why not?
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soysauce said:
Irrelevent. It's a new "feature" that the other fish don't have. So, according to your vaguely defined rules for defining genetic "information", this should count.
Unless, there are other rules to the game you are not telling us.
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soysauce said:
Again, it's a "feature" that other bacteria don't have. According to your earlier attempts to define genetic information, this would be an example of new genetic information.
If it's not, you're going to have to go back and further define what you mean by genetic information.
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All sorts of things,soysauce said:
Sdic is part of the sperm 'motor' of Drosophila melanogaster
AGFPs are antifreeze proteins
Decay accelerating factor (DAF) plays a role in the immune system
syncytin plays an important role in placenta formation
RNASE1B is a digestive enzyme
phosphoglycerate kinase (PGK2) plays a role in sperm production
HLA-DR-1 is an immmune system gene
Fatty-acid synthesis enzymes name is self explanatory.
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You said no information. I disproved it. Bases within a sequence may cause a change in information. One example given often here is a mutation which creates denser bones. I can find it if youd like. Better keep moving the goalposts cause here comes the zamboni of facts.
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soysauce said:
But it's a color that did not exist before (in hair). If it didn't exist before, but as a result of a mutation, it now does, how is that NOT new information? After all, it's something new.
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Mutations are "pathologic" (disease-causing) and only "modify what pre-exists," as French zoologist Pierre-Paul Grassé says, so mutations have "no final evolutionary effect."4 Instead, mutations point back to creation and to a corruption of the created order. There are 40-plus variants of hemoglobin, for example. All are variants of hemoglobin; that points back to creation. All are less effective oxygen carriers than normal hemoglobin; that points back to a corruption of the created order by time and chance.
At average mutation rates (one per million gene duplications), a human population of one billion would likely produce a thousand variant forms of hemoglobin. Lethal mutants would escape detection, and so would those that produced only minor changes, easily masked by a dominant normal gene. It is likely then, that the 40 or so recognized hemoglobin abnormalities represent only a small fraction of the genetic burden we bear at the hemoglobin position.
At average mutation rates (one per million gene duplications), a human population of one billion would likely produce a thousand variant forms of hemoglobin. Lethal mutants would escape detection, and so would those that produced only minor changes, easily masked by a dominant normal gene. It is likely then, that the 40 or so recognized hemoglobin abnormalities represent only a small fraction of the genetic burden we bear at the hemoglobin position.
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Man, the amount of goal-post moving in which soysauce has engaged is quite remarkable.
His claims run from "no new information" to "no beneficial mutations" to "no new features" to "mutations don't produce different species" to "mutations don't produce new biological kingdoms."
And creationists complain when people look down on them...
His claims run from "no new information" to "no beneficial mutations" to "no new features" to "mutations don't produce different species" to "mutations don't produce new biological kingdoms."
And creationists complain when people look down on them...
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