Really, what have the liberals done wrong?

[cow451]

It might be "well-known," but it's not from Sinclair Lewis.

See When Fascism Comes To America, It Will Be Wrapped in the Flag – Quote Investigator

Or, if you prefer, look at the book by Lewis that allegedly contains the phrase, and do a search. The phrase is not there: It Can't Happen Here

A poster approves of actual facts.

 

[cow451]

To me, a 'Liberal' is very much like a rebellious teenager. "Anything Mom and Dad value is "old" and I am against it." "It has to be new and different.... no matter WHAT it is or how it will affect the country." 'Established' (proven to work) and 'effective' (productive) are ideas they feel helplessly compelled to resist."

A poster isn’t deaf and doesn’t require large font for communication.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Hardly! This country was founded on "Earn your own way in this world."

Only for white men, but not for black people, Native Americans, other minorities, and women.

 

[Willie T]

A poster isn’t deaf and doesn’t require large font for communication.

I am almost legally blind and do. I like to be able to identify what I have posted. Is that a problem for you?

 

[Willie T]

Only for white men, but not for black people, Native Americans, other minorities, and women.

Actually, it was that way for everyone. Do a little research on wealthy blacks and women of that era.

And the Bible specifically tells us to work for what we want.

 

[bekkilyn]

Actually, it was that way for everyone. Do a little research on wealthy blacks and women of that era.

And the Bible specifically tells us to work for what we want.

So we earn our salvation through our own efforts?

 

[Willie T]

So we earn our salvation through our own efforts?

I can't help you much with the way you read Scripture. I can only tell you what the Bible says.

 

[bekkilyn]

I can't help you much with the way you read Scripture. I can only tell you what the Bible says.

Since the message of the bible concerns the kingdom of God and our salvation through Christ, I wanted you to clarify if that message included the requirement for us to earn our salvation and our way into God's kingdom by our own efforts, at least provided that we *want* to be saved? The way you've stated what "the bible says" leads me to believe that we *would* need to work for our own salvation, since God doesn't just give it away to anyone who doesn't deserve it.

 

[Willie T]

Since the message of the bible concerns the kingdom of God and our salvation through Christ, I wanted you to clarify if that message included the requirement for us to earn our salvation and our way into God's kingdom by our own efforts, at least provided that we *want* to be saved? The way you've stated what "the bible says" leads me to believe that we *would* need to work for our own salvation, since God doesn't just give it away to anyone who doesn't deserve it.

And also, I may be amiss in thinking that members here pretty much know what the Bible says. Sorry. Maybe someone can help you out with those well-known passages about working for a living. (I think there are about a half-dozen of them.)

 

[cow451]

I am almost legally blind and do. I like to be able to identify what I have posted. Is that a problem for you?

Not now that I know it is a reasonable accommodation.

 

[Willie T]

Not now that I know it is a reasonable accommodation.

Why wouldn't you have just asked me? That is about how I see most text here if I don't alter it somehow. It makes it very convenient to enlarge my postings to easily determine if someone is replying to me.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Hardly! This country was founded on "Earn your own way in this world."
Today, it is "Gimmie the money YOU work for, because I am special."

How does that position account for Manifest Destiny, in which our expansionist domestic policy included the attitude of "gimme the land you work for, because I am special"?

Actually, it was that way for everyone. Do a little research on wealthy blacks and women of that era.

Which wealthy blacks were that? The ones in Tulsa in the 1920's?
Tulsa race riot - Wikipedia

The ones in Memphis and elsewhere lynched for being successful?
The Economics of Lynching in Memphis - MLK50: Justice Through Journalism

Or the blacks throughout the country who had their homes foreclosed by the holders of their predatory rent-to-own contracts?

Or how about the ones who never got wealthy because they were denied access to jobs, education, financing, and legal justice?

I don't want to be rude, but if you're trying to claim that everybody has had equal opportunity in this country, it's you who ought to be doing some research.

 

[jardiniere]

I am almost legally blind and do. I like to be able to identify what I have posted. Is that a problem for you?

I was about to say the same. All the fonts on all my programs are at least twice as large as default.

 

[bekkilyn]

And also, I may be amiss in thinking that members here pretty much know what the Bible says. Sorry. Maybe someone can help you out with those well-known passages about working for a living. (I think there are about a half-dozen of them.)

I seem to recall quite a number of verses in the bible that condemn those who mistreat and oppress the poor, but I'm sure I only imagined it. It's not in God's character to give anything to anyone who can't pay for it first, so why would he expect anything different of us?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

How does that position account for Manifest Destiny, in which our expansionist domestic policy included the attitude of "gimme the land you work for, because I am special"?

Manifest Destiny... which in its honest terms meant: (1) the forced Indian removals (2) the slaughter of native men, women and children (3) the hundreds of violated treaties the government signed with the tribal nations (4) the Three-Fifths Compromise (5) the 188 years of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people (6) the 89 years of legalized slavery (7) the 148 years of denying Native Americans U.S. citizenship and (8) the 202 years of denying Native Americans religious freedom.

‘Because the Bible tells me so’: Manifest Destiny and American Indians

Which wealthy blacks were that? The ones in Tulsa in the 1920's?
Tulsa race riot - Wikipedia

The ones in Memphis and elsewhere lynched for being successful?
The Economics of Lynching in Memphis - MLK50: Justice Through Journalism

Or the blacks throughout the country who had their homes foreclosed by the holders of their predatory rent-to-own contracts?

Or how about the ones who never got wealthy because they were denied access to jobs, education, financing, and legal justice?

I don't want to be rude, but if you're trying to claim that everybody has had equal opportunity in this country, it's you who ought to be doing some research.

Thank you for posting this information and you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Actually, it was that way for everyone. Do a little research on wealthy blacks and women of that era.

Actually it wasn't because black people were legally segregated from white people. Black people were being lynched and hung from trees simply for being black. Black people had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. Black people couldn't eat at the same counter as white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Please explain how "it was that way for everyone" when black people and other minorities were legally segregated for 188 years in this country.

Black children were not allowed to go to a public school with white children until the Supreme Court intervened and ended legal segregation in public schools in 1954. It took three years after that federal ruling and the presence of the National Guard before NINE black children were allowed to attend a local high school in Little Rock, Arkansas in 1957. Black people and other minorities were denied the right until the Voting Act in 1965 and that was one year after the Civil Rights Movement in 1964.

There were "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs dawned public stores and restaurants during the era of the Jim Crow Laws. Again, please explain how "it was that way for everyone" when black people and other minorities were legally segregated.

 

[Willie T]

Actually it wasn't because black people were legally segregated from white people. Black people were being lynched and hung from trees simply for being black. Black people had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. Black people couldn't eat at the same counter as white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Please explain how "it was that way for everyone" when black people and other minorities were legally segregated from white people for 188 years in this country.

Black children were not allowed to go to a public school with white children until the Supreme Court intervened and ended legal segregation in public schools in 1954. It took three years after that federal ruling and the forced presence of the National Guard before NINE black children were allowed to attend a local high school in Little Rock, Arkansas in 1957. Black people and other minorities were denied the right until the Voting Act in 1965 and that was one year after the Civil Rights Movement in 1964. There were "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs dawned public stores and restaurants during the era of the Jim Crow Laws. I'll also mention women were denied the right to vote until the 19th Amendment in 1920.

What does any of that have to do with the fact that people who are willing to work for money, can get it?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I seem to recall quite a number of verses in the bible that condemn those who mistreat and oppress the poor, but I'm sure I only imagined it. It's not in God's character to give anything to anyone who can't pay for it first, so why would he expect anything different of us?

The Parable of the Sheep and Goats comes to mind.

 

[Speedwell]

What does any of that have to do with the fact that people who are willing to work for money, can get it?

Sometimes.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What does any of that have to do with the fact that people who are willing to work for money, can get it?

It's kind of hard to work for money when people won't hire you,
or they won't work for you,
or they won't buy from you,
or they won't sell supplies to you,
or they won't loan money to you,
or they won't rent/sell property to you,
or they charge you more for it when they do sell it to you,
or they won't allow you into school to get an education,
or the government won't protect your assets in court,
or they won't even allow you to be outside after dark...

...because of your skin color.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean - but it's quite clear you're unaware of the magnitude of the racial injustices in our country's history. There's a ton of stuff to read, but this piece is what really got me start on it:
The Case for Reparations