Really, what have the liberals done wrong?

Haramis · Jul 19, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
It appears in the US Liberal often means heading towards socialism

It's almost the opposite. Liberals are people like John Kerry, Hilary Clinton, and Kamala Harris. Open trade and open borders. Perpetual war. Only Left wing on social issues like gun control and abortion.

We barely even have socialists in the country. People like Sanders and AOC are not socialists. They're progressives. They believe in land ownership, and capitalism, but with larger government programs. And they want to it via elections. That's not a revolution. If socialism ever comes to America, liberals will be the first ones against the wall.

charsan · Jul 19, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
What does Liberal mean to you?

The enemy of America, the enemy of freedom, the enemy of all that is moral and holy. This is what it means to me

JackRT · Jul 19, 2019

charsan said:
The enemy of America, the enemy of freedom, the enemy of all that is moral and holy. This is what it means to me

Congratulations! Your indoctrination is now complete.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." --- anonymous but attributed to Sinclair Lewis.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 19, 2019

Pommer · Jul 20, 2019

charsan said:
The enemy of America, the enemy of freedom, the enemy of all that is moral and holy. This is what it means to me

What is the “cure” for this?

Radagast · Jul 20, 2019

JackRT said:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

And quoting an anonymous slander proves what, exactly?

Tom 1 · Jul 20, 2019

VCR-2000 said:
The Democratic Party in the United States is no longer liberal and is now progressive. I don't think it's necessarily much the same in the other countries, but our main "liberal" party is the one that most also accepts and even endorses stuff like abortion and acceptance of LGBT which would seem to completely contradict traditional Christian ethos. So one would figure it's a no-brainer in this context that the Republican Party is the one Christians see as the lesser evil.

I don't think value judgements can be described as 'no-brainers', unless you mean that it's an instinctive reaction rather than something people think through. In your example a number of value judgements are being made, e.g. should a secular government focus primarily on the ideas of one part of the society it governs, whether mixing church and state is a good thing, are things like sexuality and abortion more sinful in some way that issues of greed, immorality, adultery, deceit, fraud etc and does concern about unborn infants outweigh concern about children and adults. Those are all value judgements, although for the most part the whole argument seems to have devolved into emotional outburst, with out of control groups like antifa at one pole and 'Christian' ethno-centrists who mix up nationalism and gun culture with religious belief on the other. The media on both sides in the US often seems to serve the same purpose of whipping up emotions that do nothing to resolve anything.

FireDragon76 · Jul 20, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
I don't think value judgements can be described as 'no-brainers', unless you mean that it's an instinctive reaction rather than something people think through. In your example a number of value judgements are being made, e.g. should a secular government focus primarily on the ideas of one part of the society it governs, whether mixing church and state is a good thing, are things like sexuality and abortion more sinful in some way that issues of greed, immorality, adultery, deceit, fraud etc and does concern about unborn infants outweigh concern about children and adults. Those are all value judgements, although for the most part the whole argument seems to have devolved into emotional outburst, with out of control groups like antifa at one pole and 'Christian' ethno-centrists who mix up nationalism and gun culture with religious belief on the other. The media on both sides in the US often seems to serve the same purpose of whipping up emotions that do nothing to resolve anything.

I don't think Antifa is nearly as widespread or powerful as white Christian nationalism.

JackRT · Jul 20, 2019

Radagast said:
And quoting an anonymous slander proves what, exactly?

Not a slander but rather a prophetic insight.

Speedwell · Jul 20, 2019

Radagast said:
And quoting an anonymous slander proves what, exactly?

It;s not anonymous, it's a well-known quote by a famous American author, Sinclair Lewis.

Radagast · Jul 20, 2019

Speedwell said:
It;s not anonymous, it's a well-known quote by a famous American author, Sinclair Lewis.

It might be "well-known," but it's not from Sinclair Lewis.

See When Fascism Comes To America, It Will Be Wrapped in the Flag – Quote Investigator

Or, if you prefer, look at the book by Lewis that allegedly contains the phrase, and do a search. The phrase is not there: It Can't Happen Here

Speedwell · Jul 20, 2019

Radagast said:
It might be "well-known," but it's not from Sinclair Lewis.

See When Fascism Comes To America, It Will Be Wrapped in the Flag – Quote Investigator

Or, if you prefer, look at the book by Lewis that allegedly contains the phrase, and do a search. The phrase is not there: It Can't Happen Here

Well that is interesting--it's apparently an urban legend kind of thing. One thing I learned from your link was how widespread the insight is.

Willie T · Jul 20, 2019

To me, a 'Liberal' is very much like a rebellious teenager. "Anything Mom and Dad value is "old" and I am against it." "It has to be new and different.... no matter WHAT it is or how it will affect the country." 'Established' (proven to work) and 'effective' (productive) are ideas they feel helplessly compelled to resist."

Radagast · Jul 20, 2019

Speedwell said:
One thing I learned from your link was how widespread the insight is.

As I understand it, the phrase originally referred to actual fascists in the USA. People like this man: Charles Coughlin - Wikipedia

Speedwell said:
Well that is interesting--it's apparently an urban legend kind of thing.

As a general rule, if you see the combination of a quote and an author, but not a book title, the author probably didn't say it.

FireDragon76 · Jul 20, 2019

Willie T said:
To me, a 'Liberal' is very much like a rebellious teenager. "Anything Mom and Dad value is "old" and I am against it." "It has to be new and different.... no matter WHAT it is or how it will affect the country." 'Established' (proven to work) and 'effective' (productive) are ideas they feel helplessly compelled to resist."

Liberals and progressives have been around quite a long time, it's not just teenagers. In fact, evangelical Christians badly misrepresent American history in this regard, by minimizing the reality that America has always had a progressive or radical tradition of social critique and experimentation.

jayem · Jul 20, 2019

Willie T said:
To me, a 'Liberal' is very much like a rebellious teenager. "Anything Mom and Dad value is "old" and I am against it." "It has to be new and different.... no matter WHAT it is or how it will affect the country." 'Established' (proven to work) and 'effective' (productive) are ideas they feel helplessly compelled to resist."

This country was founded on rebellion against old, traditional, established ideas. It’s at the very core of American identity.

jayem · Jul 20, 2019

Some degree of socialism is a necessary and inevitable part of modern life. An urbanized society without any social safety net becomes Dickens’ London.

Tom 1 · Jul 20, 2019

jayem said:
This country was founded on rebellion against old, traditional, established ideas. It’s at the very core of American identity.

That's a good point, I don't know all that much about your founding fathers, but from what I have read they seem to have been very different from the image of Christian zealots with the idea of a Christian nation in mind that some Christian groups seem to have of them.

Willie T · Jul 20, 2019

jayem said:
This country was founded on rebellion against old, traditional, established ideas. It’s at the very core of American identity.

Hardly! This country was founded on "Earn your own way in this world."
Today, it is "Gimmie the money YOU work for, because I am special."

Goonie · Jul 20, 2019

Willie T said:
Hardly! This country was founded on "Earn your own way in this world."
Today, it is "Gimmie the money YOU work for, because I am special."

You forgot to add
“And since we have closed off all the opportunities
, Starve to death”

Really, what have the liberals done wrong?

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