Really struggling with the idea of Hell

[Jesusfann777888]

actually based on the post lifelong sinner made, maybe your rejecting yourself, and because your rejecting yourself you inhibiting your ability to Love and Expierience God's Love as a result?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Since @Lifelong_sinner described the act as a victimless crime, what the act does(?) to other people is a very broad statement. It doesn’t do anything to anyone if the initial post is to be believed, unless posters want to insist he’s harming God or triggering them by the mere prospect of his secret sins.



If anything, since @Lifelong_sinner describes the action as a danger to his own health, he’s the real victim here. The wound is spiritual and self inflicted.

There are probably NO victimless sins. But I have heard people who’ve done terrible things to others actually say they didn’t hurt anyone else because the victims forget. No joke, this is what they said they told themselves for years. So I seriously doubt no one on earth is a victim of said poster’s sins.

 

[Cormack]

There are probably NO victimless sins.

mmhmm, that’s why the phrase victimless crime was used, not victimless sin. A victimless crime is often some law or social more that (although frowned upon by some) is actually very silly and harmless.

The reason @Lifelong_sinner described his repeated sin habit as a victimless crime was because the only person it seems to be harming is himself. So asking the man...

Does what your sins do to other people bother you? Just wondering..

That’s not a super helpful question. The sin so far as he’s aware is victimless, endangering only his own health. He knows how he feels about the sin, they’ve gone to great lengths to explain how they feel about the situation.

But I have heard people who’ve done terrible things to others actually say they didn’t hurt anyone else because the victims forget.

And I’ve heard maniacs on death row insist they shouldn’t go to the electric chair because their crime spree was committed decades ago. They’ve changed since then, both physically and mentally. Doesn’t help their case that they are raving mad while they angrily shout these things into the camera.

People are apt at excusing their misdeeds, though on the flip side, they’re equally good at condemnation and grandstanding to gratify their own self righteousness.

Without knowing the nature of @Lifelong_sinner’s habitual sin it’s hard to know whether he’s truly in the wrong, or just a person of tender conscious who’s been bashed over the head one too many times by the sin police.

Many people believe they’re in the grips of sin for having eaten the wrong kinds of food, but a Christian who eats with Liberty knows that their only guilt is not eating by faith.

My choice towards @Lifelong_sinner is to treat him with the dignity that every grown man deserves, enough to help him flourish, develop and outgrow the kind of life he may feel isn’t worthy of him, whether it’s sinful or not.

The alternative is to assume the worst and henpeck him.

 

[aiki]

I don’t know. I doubt my salvation very often.

The simplest, best remedy for this doubt is to love God.

I do see fruits of the Spirit in my life but for all I know they may be false fruits.

Oh? Like what, exactly?

I, much like @Lifelong_sinner, haven’t really experienced the emotion of love for God, or at least not much of it.

Love isn't, I believe, an emotion. At its core, love is desire. The Psalmist draws this out:

Psalm 42:1-2
1 As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God; When shall I come and appear before God?

Psalm 63:1
1 O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You, In a dry and weary land where there is no water.

Psalm 84:2
2 My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the LORD; My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God.

I used to practice and teach a martial art. I did so for nearly thirty years, until my spine starting falling apart. Anyway, over the years I trained, I broke teeth, dislocated fingers and toes, tore various tendons, endured bloody noses and bruises galore. The training was exhausting, painful at times, and pretty expensive. But, for many years, I invested more time, energy and money in my training than in anything else in my life.

One day, my sister remarked to me, "You're very disciplined. You've been training day after day, year after year for decades! How are you so disciplined?" I laughed and explained to her that discipline had nothing, really, to do with why I trained. Oh, there was the odd day I was feeling tired, or sick, or was missing out on an important family event to train where I required a certain amount of determination in order to do so. But always fueling that determination was the real reason I trained so hard for so long: I loved the martial art.

Do I mean when I say I loved the art that I cried tears of joy every time I thought about it? No. In fact, there hasn't been a single time thinking, or talking about, or doing the martial art where I was moved to tears or high emotion (except when I got injured). But I still loved the art. You could tell that I did, not by the depth of my emotion about it, but by the level of investment and commitment to the martial art that I had. It wasn't weepiness that revealed my love of the art, but continuing in it despite the constantly-mounting cost of doing so, year after year. And I invested as I did because I desired greatly to train in the martial art.

I had such desire long before I actually began to train. Many, many moons ago, as an eight-year-old, I watched David Carradine in the t.v. series "Kung Fu" and thought to myself, "I want to do that! I want to be a martial artist!" The desire never left me. I bought books about the martial arts and in my teens I built a rudimentary training area to practice kicking and punching and the kata I saw in the books I'd purchased. When I was old enough (in my early twenties), I took up martial training (though, not in a Chinese martial art). It was glorious! I couldn't get enough of training! It was so satisfying, so gratifying, a joy to do. It was also difficult, very confusing at first, and humiliating, but training was always fundamentally enjoyable, always thoroughly fulfilling my desire to be a martial artist.

I look at my experience as a martial artist and see, among other things, an important lesson in love. Like you, I used to equate love with an emotion. Later on in my life as a Christian, I equated it with obedience to God. But as I've come to see, these are both the by-products of love, they are prompted by love, but they aren't love itself. Love is, at bottom, strong desire. This was the case with my love for the martial arts. My love wasn't first and foremost an emotion, it was a strong, abiding desire; my love of martial training wasn't ever evidenced by joyful tears and intense feelings but by an unwavering investment in training. It wasn't, after all, emotions, however powerful, that would (or could) satisfy my desire for martial arts skills. No, I had to actually train, to do the things necessary to obtaining the skills of a martial artist, in order to fulfill my desire.

In English we talk of love in such an imprecise, multi-faceted, terminologically-overlapping way that it can get quite difficult to pin down what one means by "love." When I say I love chocolate, I don't mean I love it in the way I love my wife; when I say I love a sunset, I don't mean I love it like I do my siblings or parents. Sex and lust are often talked about in terms of love; addiction is sometimes described in terms of love, as well. But what the Bible means by love of God is, I believe, what the Psalmist wrote of above: a deep longing, a yearning, a thirst, for God.

Love for God, then, is a desire to know Him, to fellowship with Him, to be relationally-connected to Him. As this desire is pursued and satisfied by coming into relationship with God through Jesus Christ, it will produce emotions of joy, and gratefulness, and contentment; it will prompt happy obedience to God; it may even provoke a few tears of deep affection now and then. But before all of this, there must be the desire for God which drives us into relationship with Him and is the ground out of which all the emotions and behaviour so closely associated with loving God arise.

So, after this long-winded preamble, let me ask you: Do you want God? Do you want to know Him and to walk every day in intimate communion with Him? Do you have a thirst for God? Not, do you feel some strong emotion for Him, but, rather, do you want Him, do you have a heart's yearning to be connected to Him? So long as you do, I believe you can say that you love God.

We are made by God to be powerfully moved and shaped by our desires. Our desires are perhaps the most fundamental ordering factor of our lives. We do what we want, what we desire to do. And so, God deals with us on this level, directing us to desire Him. Why should we, though? If you were asked why someone should desire God, what would you say?

 

[Lukaris]

This is very encouraging. However, I’m not sure I understand what you mean by our works being a “proactive approach?”

I meant a positive approach that is proactive in praying for our own salvation & that of our neighbor ( among other things). Prayers for all (1 Timothy 2:1-3) & for evangelists ( Matthew 9:36-38) come to mind.

 

[cerulean]

The simplest, best remedy for this doubt is to love God.



Oh? Like what, exactly?



Love isn't, I believe, an emotion. At its core, love is desire. The Psalmist draws this out:

Psalm 42:1-2
1 As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God; When shall I come and appear before God?

Psalm 63:1
1 O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You, In a dry and weary land where there is no water.

Psalm 84:2
2 My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the LORD; My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God.

I used to practice and teach a martial art. I did so for nearly thirty years, until my spine starting falling apart. Anyway, over the years I trained, I broke teeth, dislocated fingers and toes, tore various tendons, endured bloody noses and bruises galore. The training was exhausting, painful and at times, and pretty expensive. But, for many years, I invested more time, energy and money in my training than in anything else in my life.

One day, my sister remarked to me, "You're very disciplined. You've been training day after day, year after year for decades! How are you so disciplined?" I laughed and explained to her that discipline had nothing, really, to do with why I trained. Oh, there was the odd day I was feeling tired, or sick, or was missing out on an important family event to train where I required a certain amount of determination in order to do so. But always, fueling that determination was the real reason I trained so hard for so long: I loved the martial art.

Do I mean when I say I loved the art that I cried tears of joy every time I thought about it? No. In fact, there hasn't been a single time thinking, or talking about, or doing the martial art where I was moved to tears or high emotion (except when I got injured). But I still loved the art. You could tell that I did, not by the depth of my emotion about it, but by the level of investment and commitment to the martial art that I had. It wasn't weepiness that revealed my love of the art, but continuing in it despite the constantly-mounting cost of doing so, year after year. And I invested as I did because I desired greatly to train in the martial art.

I had such desire long before I actually began to train. Many, many moons ago, as an eight-year-old, I watched David Carradine in the t.v. series "Kung Fu" and thought to myself, "I want to do that! I want to be a martial artist!" The desire never left me. I bought books about the martial arts and in my teens I built a rudimentary training area to practice kicking and punching and the kata I saw in the books I'd purchased. When I was old enough (in my early twenties), I took up martial training (though, not in a Chinese martial art). It was glorious! I couldn't get enough of training! It was so satisfying, so gratifying, a joy to do. It was also difficult, very confusing at first, and humiliating, but training was always fundamentally enjoyable, always thoroughly fulfilling my desire to be a martial artist.

I look at my experience as a martial artist and see, among other things, an important lesson in love. Like you, I used to equate love with an emotion. Later on in my life as a Christian, I equated it with obedience to God. But as I've come to see, these are both the by-products of love, they are prompted by love, but they aren't love itself. Love is, at bottom, strong desire. This was the case with my love for the martial arts. My love wasn't first and foremost an emotion, it was a strong, abiding desire; my love of martial training wasn't ever evidenced by joyful tears and intense feelings but by an unwavering investment in training. It wasn't, after all, emotions, however powerful, that would (or could) satisfy my desire for martial arts skills. No, I had to actually train, to do the things necessary to obtaining the skills of a martial artist, in order to fulfill my desire.

In English we talk of love in such an imprecise, multi-faceted, terminologically-overlapping way that it can get quite difficult to pin down what one means by "love." When I say I love chocolate, I don't mean I love it in the way I love my wife; when I say I love a sunset, I don't mean I love it like I do my siblings or parents. Sex and lust are often talked about in terms of love; addiction is sometimes described in terms of love, as well. But what the Bible means by love of God is, I believe, what the Psalmist wrote of above: a deep longing, a yearning, a thirst, for God.

Love for God, then, is a desire to know Him, to fellowship with Him, to be relationally-connected to Him. As this desire is pursued and satisfied by coming into relationship with God through Jesus Christ, it will produce emotions of joy, and gratefulness, and contentment; it will prompt happy obedience to God; it may even provoke a few tears of deep affection now and then. But before all of this, there must be the desire for God which drives us into relationship with Him and is the ground out of which all the emotions and behaviour so closely associated with loving God arise.

So, after this long-winded preamble, let me ask you: Do you want God? Do you want to know Him and to walk every day in intimate communion with Him? Do you have a thirst for God? Not, do you feel some strong emotion for Him, but, rather, do you want Him, do you have a heart's yearning to be connected to Him? So long as you do, I believe you can say that you love God.

We are made by God to be powerfully moved and shaped by our desires. Our desires are perhaps the most fundamental ordering factor of our lives. We do what we want, what we desire to do. And so, God deals with us on this level, directing us to desire Him. Why should we, though? If you were asked why someone should desire God, what would you say?

I guess I would have to say no, I don’t have a deep abiding desire to know God. I wish I did. I’m willing to do what it takes to get close to God because I know that’s what I’m supposed to do, but I don’t do it because I just genuinely want to know God better. My desires are in the wrong places. Does this mean I’m not saved? And if so, what do I do now? How can I come to actually love God, with all my desires?

 

[aiki]

Why don't you desire God? Why do you think others do greatly desire Him?

 

[Cormack]

My desires are in the wrong places. Does this mean I’m not saved?

No. Desires don’t dictate whether or not you’re saved. Most of our desires are prompted by impulses like hunger, thirst, etc. Force me to skip a meal and I’ll desire a chicken sandwich over God. I don’t mean to be flip about it but that’s the reality that hungry, tired, grumpy humans are met with.

People are saved by faith, @cerulean. Trusting in Jesus and what He’s done for lost and needy people. Believe in the good He brings out in people even today, 2000 years later.

At 20 years old there’s no rush to the nunnery or a burning desire to commit ourselves to anything longer than it takes to eat a cup of pudding.

I’m sure you’re a fine person who’s been spooked by talk of burning coals and pitchforks, damned forever lest you fear the coming wrath. So you’re set up by teachers and preachers who couldn’t judge their a*se from their elbow (#cough# Piper! John Piper #cough# )

Hopefully your convo with @aiki goes well and boosts your trust in the Lord for the future. My advice however is not to worry so much, there’s peace and mercy and grace in the Christian faith, junk in anybody who’s destroying that peace.

Grace loving people are the way to go, give them an audience and you’ll find the motivation to know God better, it’ll come naturally because you’ll want to know those people better.

Edit: because the CF robot censors won’t allow me to write the phrase “a*se from their elbow” on here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've been a Christian for 3 and a half years, and for the first time, I'm starting to really wrestle with the idea of a loving God sending people to Hell. Throughout my life as a Christian, I've never questioned it. I've always thought, "Of course it's fair that God sends non-Christians to Hell! Their sins aren't paid for, so they have to take the punishment of their sins upon themselves." I never really allowed myself to think about the concept of eternal suffering too hard, because I was afraid that if I started questioning the fairness of this, I would end up leaving the faith. But recently I've started asking questions I've never let myself ask before, like: "Why do the damned suffer eternal punishment for temporal sins?" "If God knew the vast majority of people would end up in unbearable agony for all eternity, why did he ever create humankind?" "Why can't God just destroy the wicked on Judgement Day? Why keep them around for the sole purpose of torturing them?"

Today I was reading an article about the physical suffering of Jesus on the Cross, and couldn't help but think to myself, "the people in Hell will suffer just as much, if not more, than this. And while Jesus' physical torture lasted less than 24 hours, their torture will never end." I immediately tried to push this blasphemous thought out of my head, but it still lingers.

Now that I'm having these questions, it's getting much harder to walk with the Lord like I used to. It's very difficult to feel affection for God when I remember that He's going to sentence the vast majority of humanity to an eternity of unimaginable torture, with no hope of relief. I mean, how does this knowledge not drive us all insane? I can't even walk around Walmart anymore without constantly thinking to myself, "Most of the people in this store will spend eternity in Hell." I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm going crazy.

I know that no matter what my feelings tell me, my God is just and merciful. I understand that any punishment God hands out is perfectly fair. I know that He is not a sadistic monster, no matter how strongly I feel otherwise. So please do not read this post as me accusing God of those things, because I'm not. I just need to figure out how to reconcile my belief that God is good with my belief that God condemns 99% of people to eternal, conscious torment.

Sorry if this post is all jumbled or makes no sense, I'm really not in the right mental state to be forming coherent thoughts right now.

Yes, Eternal Conscious Torment is unbiblical. I used to believe in it at one time, but the more I truly studied the Scriptures on this topic, the more I discovered it was not biblical.

This CF thread may be of comfort to you.

A Defense of Dualistic Conditional Immortality

 

[Cormack]

Yes, Eternal Conscious Torment is unbiblical. I used to believe in it at one time, but the more I truly studied the Scriptures on this topic, the more I discovered it was not biblical.

Kudos to you for changing positions on a biblical topic, it’s normally very hard for people.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Kudos to you for changing positions on a biblical topic, it’s normally very hard for people.

Thank you. I have changed my positions or beliefs on a number of things over the years.

You can check em out at this CF thread here:

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

 

[Silverback]

1 John chapter 2 verse 2
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

-My sheep hear my voice, they follow me, I've come to lay down my life for my sheep.

Not all are Christ Sheep, and most do not follow, or hear his voice.

-This is my blood in the new and everlasting covenant, which will be poored out for you and for "MANY" for the forgiveness of sins.

For many...but not all. Crist sacrifice, his spilled blood on the cross, though sufficient for the sins of the whole world, is applied in the case of the elect...only, since the non elect are outside of Gods saving grace it is incomprehensible that Christ would have died for them.

-Who's names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.

Salvation is 100% Gods work, the individuals roll is completely passive.

In the case of the elect, Gods grace is irresistible, they will be brought to a saving faith at some point by hearing the Gospel, as God works faith in their heart, which will lead to conviction of sins, repentence, and forgiveness.

All those elected, for whom Christ died for, who have now a saving faith will persevere until the end and be saved.

Humanity has a very sick nature, sinful, greedy, envious, we still kill each over petty jealousy...we never take responsibility for the things we have done, and we teach all of our sins to our children.

If given a choice, it's likely no one would choose Jesus Christ, and he would have died for nothing. But, we have a gracious God who has chosen a remnant to be saved by his grace, for Christs sake through faith.

That being said, I understand the arguments made for decision theology as well, this controversy has it's roots (not deep) in some of the writings of St. Augustine, all the way through at least Martin Luther.

In the end though, it's Gods grace for Christ sake through faith that saves. We can debate Gods choice vs our choice all we want, but in the end it's the same...some make it, most don't.

 

[Silverback]

Well, you might want to actually read the four gospels again, etc...

Jesus mentions people going to a hell more than he mentions people going to a heaven, etc, and that is just a "fact", etc...

There are also other words He uses for this hell and to describe this hell also, etc...

And it's mentioned more than heaven, etc...

God Bless!

People want to hear what their itching ears want to hear. This is just more evidence of our fallen nature...

 

[Jesusfann777888]

-My sheep hear my voice, they follow me, I've come to lay down my life for my sheep.

Not all are Christ Sheep, and most do not follow, or hear his voice.

Listen, you can not conceptually use Bible Verse's and draw conclusion'ls that contradict other Bible Verse's.

from your stance on the elect, your obviously a calvanist.

Calvinism however states that people are totally depraved. The Bible in no way insinuates of suggests they are. Total depravity is beyond God's saving grace. The entire reason Yahweh placed an angel to guard the tree of eternal life was so that He could condemn sin in the flesh, and that people would not suffer the second death.

The entirety of The Bible Read's as one long explanation, starting with Abraham of a Saviour who would take away the sins of the world. In contrast to calvini, The Basis God is States to have died for all and says Preach The Gospel to All of Creation determines The Invitation is to all who are not condemned.

Pre-destinatiom Evalautes that God draws people to himself, The Elect, whom he foreknew (those God Knew Inside and out before Creation.) That He Also Called and Also Justified. stop scaring the guy.

calvinism is a superficial superiority doctrine, that was created by satan to make people feel special. God weighed ever person before The Creation, the turnout is more of people just living out what God knew they would. If he's sinning it doesn't mean he's condemned. He obviously is acknowledging it, he's probably Just burned out because he's trusting in what he can do rather than Trusting In Jesus Work. If he does that, he wontl't be so afraid


-This is my blood in the new and everlasting covenant, which will be poored out for you and for "MANY" for the forgiveness of sins.

For many...but not all. Crist sacrifice, his spilled blood on the cross, though sufficient for the sins of the whole world, is applied in the case of the elect...only, since the non elect are outside of Gods saving grace it is incomprehensible that Christ would have died for them.

-Who's names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.

Salvation is 100% Gods work, the individuals roll is completely passive.

In the case of the elect, Gods grace is irresistible, they will be brought to a saving faith at some point by hearing the Gospel, as God works faith in their heart, which will lead to conviction of sins, repentence, and forgiveness.

All those elected, for whom Christ died for, who have now a saving faith will persevere until the end and be saved.

Humanity has a very sick nature, sinful, greedy, envious, we still kill each over petty jealousy...we never take responsibility for the things we have done, and we teach all of our sins to our children.

If given a choice, it's likely no one would choose Jesus Christ, and he would have died for nothing. But, we have a gracious God who has chosen a remnant to be saved by his grace, for Christs sake through faith.

That being said, I understand the arguments made for decision theology as well, this controversy has it's roots (not deep) in some of the writings of St. Augustine, all the way through at least Martin Luther.

In the end though, it's Gods grace for Christ sake through faith that saves. We can debate Gods choice vs our choice all we want, but in the end it's the same...some make it, most don't.

 

[Jesusfann777888]

-My sheep hear my voice, they follow me, I've come to lay down my life for my sheep.

Not all are Christ Sheep, and most do not follow, or hear his voice.


-This is my blood in the new and everlasting covenant, which will be poored out for you and for "MANY" for the forgiveness of sins.

For many...but not all. Crist sacrifice, his spilled blood on the cross, though sufficient for the sins of the whole world, is applied in the case of the elect...only, since the non elect are outside of Gods saving grace it is incomprehensible that Christ would have died for them.

-Who's names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.

Salvation is 100% Gods work, the individuals roll is completely passive.

In the case of the elect, Gods grace is irresistible, they will be brought to a saving faith at some point by hearing the Gospel, as God works faith in their heart, which will lead to conviction of sins, repentence, and forgiveness.

All those elected, for whom Christ died for, who have now a saving faith will persevere until the end and be saved.

Humanity has a very sick nature, sinful, greedy, envious, we still kill each over petty jealousy...we never take responsibility for the things we have done, and we teach all of our sins to our children.

If given a choice, it's likely no one would choose Jesus Christ, and he would have died for nothing. But, we have a gracious God who has chosen a remnant to be saved by his grace, for Christs sake through faith.

That being said, I understand the arguments made for decision theology as well, this controversy has it's roots (not deep) in some of the writings of St. Augustine, all the way through at least Martin Luther.

In the end though, it's Gods grace for Christ sake through faith that saves. We can debate Gods choice vs our choice all we want, but in the end it's the same...some make it, most don't.

The entirety of The Bible Read's as one long explanation, starting with Abraham of a Saviour who would take away the sins of the world. In contrast to calvini, The Basis God is States to have died for all and says Preach The Gospel to All of Creation determines The Invitation is to all who are not condemned.

Pre-destinatiom Evalautes that God draws people to himself, The Elect, whom he foreknew (those God Knew Inside and out before Creation.) That He Also Called and Also Justified. stop scaring the guy.

calvinism is a superficial superiority doctrine, that was created by satan to make people feel special. God weighed ever person before The Creation, the turnout is more of people just living out what God knew they would. If he's sinning it doesn't mean he's condemned. He obviously is acknowledging it, he's probably Just burned out because he's trusting in what he can do rather than Trusting In Jesus Work. If he does that, he wontl't be so afraid

 

[Chi.C]

I know that no matter what my feelings tell me, my God is just and merciful. I understand that any punishment God hands out is perfectly fair. I know that He is not a sadistic monster, no matter how strongly I feel otherwise. So please do not read this post as me accusing God of those things, because I'm not. I just need to figure out how to reconcile my belief that God is good with my belief that God condemns 99% of people to eternal, conscious torment.

Sorry if this post is all jumbled or makes no sense, I'm really not in the right mental state to be forming coherent thoughts right now.

Hell does not exist. You yourself know God is just and merciful. He is love. If I should call your best friend a sociopath and that he tortures little animals every chance he gets, would you believe me? The rational response is "No, show me the proof". If I say it is in the scriptures, am I right or wrong

Testing time. The scriptures say

God warns Adam if you eat the fruit A) he will surely suffer eternal torment! or
B) he will surely die!
What are the wages of sin A) eternal damnation or
B) death
In sheol, I will feel A) what I deserve or
B) nothing
Tartarus, is Greek for A) another name for Hell or
B) where the bad Titans are bound, like Abyss for fallen angels
Hades, is Greek for A) another name for Hell or
B) personification of Death (god of the underworld)
Gehenna is A) another name for Hell or
B) garbage dump outside Jerusalem
The eternal lake of fire is A) a representation of Hell or
B) a fire where books are burnt
Hint your name is written in a book for judgement. What does fire do to books? Destroys all informations within the book. It will be as you were never born. I hope you answered all B's

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19-31. A literal reading of the parable
1) Hell is a chasm away from paradise. 2) Abraham is endowed with enormous bosoms to accommodate all of the saved. 3a) The resurrected will have time travel powers like God so Lazarus can go warn the rich mans father from the Day of Judgement. or 3b) The resurrections occur before the Day of Judgement, so Abraham is another Patriarch who walks with God (other than Enoch).

If all parables are literal then another aspect is 4) heaven is like 10 virgins shaped like a mustard tree.

Cherry picking one parable as literal over another as allegorical, is intellectually dishonest. Looking at all the parables as literal is absurd and probably blasphemous. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, is thus a lesson about faith and vanity, using an allegory of resurrection and Abraham (consider that we are all children of Sarai - Gal 4:21-31). There is no repentance after death. No repentance when one is vain (camel in the eye of the needle).

Hell is a pagan belief that arises from another pagan belief, the immortality of the soul. The soul is not immortal. The soul needs God in order to exist.

The only way to worship God is by loving him as a Person. The only way of obeying Jesus is by loving him as a Person. Lose your fear if it interferes with your love.

 

[Cormack]

The soul is not immortal. The soul needs God in order to exist.

1 Timothy 6:15-16

which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.​

 

[Neogaia777]

People want to hear what their itching ears want to hear. This is just more evidence of our fallen nature...

I've about given up on trying to tell or show people the truth, etc, the truth that will set them free, etc, and think I'm just going to try to go about just loving them only, etc, even though it breaks my heart all of time because they are the source and cause of their own misery, etc, but think I am just going to try and just love them anyway, and leave off trying to show them, or tell them, or teach them the truth that would set them free, etc...

I know it, I have it now, etc, but way, way too many just either, don't seem to be able to handle it right now, or maybe just can't comprehend it right now, or just don't want to right now, etc, and I'm tried of fighting with them/that on it/that/this, etc, as it seems to always be a losing battle or fight always anyway, etc...

It's very sad cause it would set them free, etc, set them free from themselves mainly, etc, and would also free them and separate them from the world and the ways of the world also, etc...

I'm also maybe finding maybe, that way, way too many even just simply can't be set free right now also, etc, like it's not even within the realm of possibility for them right now, etc, for they don't know what to do or how to be apart from themselves and their own prides/egos/vanities/wills, etc...

And I don't say that insultingly, but just that it's the truth about them right now, etc...

Many don't know what to do without it, etc, quite literally don't even know how to even be able to exist without it/that, even if they would come to even begin to accept the truth that could even start to set them free from all of that, etc, which they don't even seem to be able to, etc... Even be starting to and/or even be able, etc, to be doing any of this/that, etc, that I am saying, etc... Like it's not even within the realm of possibility for them right now, etc... And I'm very tired of trying to fight "that", etc... Cause that will always be a losing battle, etc... And borders on the realm of "insanity" for the one who would even be trying to do something like that, etc... To be trying to be changing any of it/that, etc...

So, maybe I should just try to love them, and love on them, etc, "do love", etc, "be it" towards them and for them, etc, and just put the truth on the back burner for awhile maybe, etc... Regardless of how it hurts, etc...

They'll never see through my broken smile, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Cormack]

So, maybe I should just try to love them, and love on them, etc, "do love", etc, "be it" towards them and for them, etc, and just put the truth on the back burner for awhile maybe, etc...

Maybe that’s part of growing in spiritual things, @Neogaia777. Rather than seeing the situation as an unhappy step back due to others and their hard heartenedness, it can be part of discovering a better way to reach people. Doors open to a gentle knock, not to banging and screaming through the letterbox.

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe that’s part of growing in spiritual things, @Neogaia777. Rather than seeing the situation as an unhappy step back due to others and their hard heartenedness, it can be part of discovering a better way to reach people. Doors open to a gentle knock, not to banging and screaming through the letterbox.

There is such a "gulf", etc, and I just don't know if they can take the step or make the journey, etc, which is why I'm thinking about just being, or trying to be, just simply love towards them, and/or for them, etc...

But I do think there is an important lesson "I am supposed to be learning in all of this here" also, etc...

It's maybe not even being possible, etc...

And an important lesson I am supposed to be learning from that, etc...

But just know, I only do my "banging and screaming" online only really... If you met me in person, you'd know I don't do that in person, etc... Really don't say a lot a lot of the time in person, etc...

So, I thinking about taking a step back from the whole online thing, and maybe doing more with actual person to person, etc, and see how that goes, etc...

I'm already moving away from being on here (online) so much, but don't know if anybody noticed, etc, and may give it up entirely soon, etc, and devote myself to more person to person interactions, and being and doing love, etc, and more prayer, etc...

It's still going to a broken smile though....

Anyway, thanks for listening...

God Bless!