Really struggling with the idea of Hell

[Neogaia777]

BTW, I did a search for the words "Heaven" and "Hell" and there was 54 for Hell, but 551 for the word Heaven, so....

Well, you might want to actually read the four gospels again, etc...

Jesus mentions people going to a hell more than he mentions people going to a heaven, etc, and that is just a "fact", etc...

There are also other words He uses for this hell and to describe this hell also, etc...

And it's mentioned more than heaven, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Like @MMXX shared, Steve Gregg does some great work on the subject. He even replies to email questions, since I’ve enquired myself. If you can, and if you’re really hungry to grasp the topic of hell from every angle, grab a copy of All you want to know about Hell, by Steve Gregg.

Over 300 pages and I read it in a day, it’s that good. No bias, no pushing us in any direction, just a strong biblical case for all the relevant views. Then we can decide for ourselves.

For what the option of a stranger is worth, the more I learn about Christianity, the less I believe that the purpose of hell is eternal conscious torment.

Well, "conscious torment" is debatable, etc, since many of them "sleep" for very, very long periods of time, etc, and also since, when they are brought back again, for very, very short periods of time, comparatively, etc, they are not ever "conscious" of the past at all ever, etc, but the/their "torment" is "eternal", etc...

God Bless!

 

[lismore]

I've been a Christian for 3 and a half years, and for the first time, I'm starting to really wrestle with the idea of a loving God sending people to Hell. .

He sends people to hell because he is a loving God.

Take for example a woman who has been raped. She reaches the heavenly Jerusalem and discovers that her unrepentant rapist is allowed into that perfect place just as she is. What would that say to that woman's pain? What would that say to justice? How could a loving God permit unrepentant sadists and devils to roam around with his people in eternity? That would turn heaven into hell.

God Bless

 

[Cormack]

and also since, when they are brought back again, for very, very short periods of time, comparatively, etc, they are not ever "conscious" of the past at all ever, etc, but the/their "torment" is "eternal", etc...

I’m not sure how torment could occur and not be the result of a conscious person experiencing torment, @Neogaia777. The experience of physical or mental suffering requires a conscious source.

Not being conscious of the past at all wouldn’t be an end to eternal conscious torment. Like how someone being put to sleep every 1000 years only to be woken again to further torment wouldn’t have escaped eternal conscious torment.

Their existence would be all torment all the time so far as they’re aware, it’s going to continue on into eternal whether they’re awoken every five minutes or every five years.

Hopefully you won’t mind explaining your viewpoint further.

God bless you too.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree with you on this point, people consigned to Hell will be separated from God, they will suffer, and it will be eternal.

Not sure being separated from God is something they will suffer from since they willingly were separated from Him here. The descriptions Jesus gave don’t include that one that I recall.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus used many metaphors to explain things to a population that was uneducated for the most part.

Amd sometimes he didn’t use metaphors. Not sure they were less educated than many people today.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I didn't either.

Many do and think that’s the only suffering there will be or is.

 

[Albion]

Many do and think that’s the only suffering there will be or is.

It probably depends on what one thinks "suffering" will amount to.

If, in the afterlife, it's nothing more than not getting the big payoff of heaven but the lost souls get to go on living and experiencing some sort of satisfying existence otherwise...that doesn't sound unbearable.

But if they fully realize--as they did not while living in this life on Earth--what heaven and being with God really, really represents, it could easily be a crushing, never-ending experience of loss...and therefore pain.

 

[Eloy Craft]

But if they fully realize--as they did not while living in this life on Earth--what heaven and being with God really, really represents, it could easily be a crushing, never-ending experience of loss...and

what a paradox! I think that is true yet I also believe no one in hell would change their mind and repent or bow their heads and accept forgiveness.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It probably depends on what one thinks "suffering" will amount to.

If, in the afterlife, it's nothing more than not getting the big payoff of heaven but the lost souls get to go on living and experiencing some sort of satisfying existence otherwise...that doesn't sound unbearable.

But if they fully realize--as they did not while living in this life on Earth--what heaven and being with God really, really represents, it could easily be a crushing, never-ending experience of loss...and therefore pain.

That’s not anyone’s description of that matter except for believers who are in end refused entry. The believers (of a sort but not His sort) do know and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth from them.

 

[Albion]

Eloy, there are others who have made that point also, i.e. that we enter the afterlife having been molded by our lives in the here and now, and we don't get remade by God at that point or suddenly have our eyes opened to the importance of being good and loving, etc. (which is what many people think happens).

 

[Neogaia777]

I’m not sure how torment could occur and not be the result of a conscious person experiencing torment, @Neogaia777. The experience of physical or mental suffering requires a conscious source.

Not being conscious of the past at all wouldn’t be an end to eternal conscious torment. Like how someone being put to sleep every 1000 years only to be woken again to further torment wouldn’t have escaped eternal conscious torment.

Their existence would be all torment all the time so far as they’re aware, it’s going to continue on into eternal whether they’re awoken every five minutes or every five years.

Hopefully you won’t mind explaining your viewpoint further.

God bless you too.

I'm more talking about only one life each creation for them, etc, and living very much the same kind of existence, or existences, or quote/unquote "lives" all over again each time, etc, then going back to only existing only in the mind of God only, or being quote/unquote "asleep", etc, for "very long periods of time", etc, "very, very, very, long, long, long periods of time", etc, "in-between", etc, and each and every single time they are brought back, or quote/unquote "exist" again, etc, never ever ever being aware of, or ever conscious of any of this, etc, or these times, or of ever repeating these kind of existences/times, each and every time, etc, all over again, etc, and that is "forever" again, each time for them, etc...

And again, and again, etc, and that is all forever for them, all over again, each and every time, for them, all over again, etc...

But never ever aware of any of this ever going on and/or happening each time at all ever, etc...

Each creation, (cycle), etc...

I've used the term "twilight zone" kind of existences for them to try and describe it or explain it before, etc...

I just don't know how many understood it, etc...?

Maybe never even were ever truly considered even truly alive maybe, not compared to the kind of life/lives some of us are going to get after this life anyway, but maybe just "dead", etc, and maybe "just always considered just dead, or dead ones, eternally" maybe, etc...

Never ever even getting a taste ever of the real true life anyway, etc, and maybe were never ever even meant to, and that maybe from the beginning, or the very, very beginning of maybe all things (creations, etc) maybe, anyway, etc....

Very, very limited and temporary programs, compared to us meant to go beyond this life, etc...

Only ever living for just this life only, etc...

Never seeing beyond that, and so, never ever going beyond that ever, etc...

One side note: You cannot change them or alter their course, etc, so I don't know that we should even try, etc, as it all too often just comes back on us in a very, oftentimes, very negative way anyway, etc., so I think we sometimes got to know when to sometimes "shake the dust off our feet", and move on, etc... When we sense that we may be running across some of these kinds of people sometimes, etc... Who's course is just already predetermined, or already been determined, and/or is just simply, "unalterable", etc...

It's not so much a "punishment", but is just all they were ever meant for, etc...

Not so with the rest of us though, etc...

Some of us anyway, etc...

Anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You should struggle with the idea of hell. It's a church doctrine, not a doctrine of Christ.

Except Jesus talked about Hell more than anyone in the whole of the Bible.....actually more than all the others put together.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hell certainly didn’t occupy much space in Paul’s theology or in the Old Testament, and since Paul makes up the bulk of the New Testament, that relegates hell to what we think Jesus taught and a verse or two in Revelation.

Jesus is a fairly hefty authority on matters of God though. I doubt Paul thought of himself as superior in knowledge as compared to Jesus.

 

[Lukaris]

i have much respect for Jesus, He is the only human to have never sinned. I find that simply amazing. But as for the fear of hell, i can tell you now that if it wasnt for that one fear, i’d either be in prison or dead right now. Its not the love of Jesus that keeps me up at nite, its the fear of dying in my sleep only to awaken to being in hell. My sin doesnt bother me beyond knowing that it is a sin. How else do you explain having a habitual sin for over 30 yrs on a daily basis...

I do not know the deepness of your pain so I reply cautiously & ,hopefully, with sensitivity.

We all struggle with sin & personally I struggle when I compare the Lord’s commandments ( love God & neighbor)to my state of mind. I also realize that this is where hope begins. The Lord’s commandments are like His light on Mt. Tabor ( Matthew 17:1-9). We cannot attain that but yet we can just allow it to take over us & we can know that is the light at the end of the tunnel. On the way it is rough as St. Paul reminds us in Ephesians 6:10-18. Our works should not be intended as some fearful attempts to appease or bribe God but a proactive approach. Always remember the fear of the Lord of course ( Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 etc.). In this approach we run the gamut of emotions but we can take on our sin, increase our hope for ourselves & others. Basically the Lord calls us to be charitable & pray. If a person is poor, a couple bucks to charity & sincerely praying the Lord’s Prayer ( Matthew 6:1-5) can be a person’s “reasonable service”( KJV) St. Paul refers to in Romans 12:1-3.

 

[disciple1]

Their sins aren't paid for, so they have to take the punishment of their sins upon themselves.

1 John chapter 2 verse 2
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

 

[Albion]

None of that means every last person will be saved.

 

[iarwain]

The Bible says the wages of sin are death. It doesn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment. It does talk of eternal torment for the Beast and the False Prophet.

That's the way I've always looked at it. It's largely a matter of interpretation, and I'm not saying I'm right. It just makes sense to me. If eternal torment was on the line, I would think the Bible would be a little less vague on the subject. But that's not for me to decide. There's a certain amount of mystery about what happens after death and what exact form that may take, even taking into account all the scriptures on the subject.

 

[Albion]

There is mystery surrounding the afterlife, but these verses and passaged speak emphatically about eternity and hell:

Daniel 12:1-2
Matthew 25:46
Jude 7
Jude 13
Revelation 20:10

and that's excluding references to the everlasting nature of hell but which don't also say that anyone's stay there is for eternity.

 

[Palmfever]

No, I don't think they will suffer as Jesus did. Not even close. Remember, his physical suffering was only a part of the terrible price he paid for our sin. The wrath of God was poured out upon him, crushing Christ in a way none of us will ever fully understand, exacting a toll upon him that only a supernatural being could bear.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. The physical pain I'm sure was no fun at all. But others went through it, two right next to Him. I've thought the fact that He became sin, a experience so foreign and repugnant, so ugly, that He asked if perhaps there might be another way to not drink what was in that cup. Unspotted Purity consuming every hideous perversity of man past, present, and future.