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Define successful. Does a short-term (less than a month) encounter before going back to college count? Been there, did that.I have personally never heard of a successful courtship and relationship that started with a dude catcalling a girl on the street.
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Part of the disconnect, I expect, is that "unwanted" and "threatening" are often so close as to be overlapping, when we're talking about random interactions with men. Part of the problem I have with catcalling - as noted in my first post in this thread - is that it very seldom stops short of catcalling.
The catcall is often an exercise of power as much as an articulation of attraction.
Part of the problem with the guy who hits on you is that many of them don't graciously accept being politely turned down.
And that brings us back full circle to the idea that there's a time and place, and at random in public might not be it...
I think that you're mistaken.
Yeah?
Kaepernick denies giving Travis Scott blessing to perform at Super Bowl - sports - att.net
Now, I don't really know who Travis Scott is...country singer is my guess...but I think we can all agree, he doesn't really need Kaepernick's approval to perform at the Super Bowl does he?
Yet, look at what Colin's wife says...
"If you’re with them, then you are definitely not with us. "
So without any real discussion...Travis Scott is now "part of the problem". No....they didn't ask him his position on police brutality. No....they didn't ask his position on anything. That's the core of virtue signaling....its just to create a "us vs them" mentality so that you can promote yourself while bashing others.
Nobody needs Kaepernick's "blessing" to work with the NFL.
Claims of virtue signaling when a person has actually gone through the process of raising money for a particular cause and donating their time and money to that cause is more than enough information to know that the naysayers don't want to engage on the topic. But that's how these folks operate. Do they really want to argue against the cause being championed?Everybody that does GOOD is not seeking the applause of their fellowman, ... though SOME surely do. Try not to be so cynical.
Very seldom, huh?
I eatched probably the same catcalling videos you did. As I recall, it stopped with catcalling 99-100% of the time. I can post some of these videos if you like.
Where are you getting this idea that it "very seldom" stops with the catcalling?
You make it sound like this is a nature show on orangutans. Exercise of power? Are you kidding?
But it might be....and you'll never know if you don't try.
I think that we were discussing the MOTIVATION for people making the choices that they do ... and your seeming belief that you can read their minds to determine if they are simply, "virtue-signalling", as you call it.
As to your response ... you're right, Travis Scott didn't NEED to get Kaepernick's "blessing" to work with the NFL.
But HE CHOSE to approach Kaepernick. Why did he do so ? I suppose that only he knows.
But the article you cited indicated that he and Kaepernick came away from the meeting not exactly on the same page. And that's okay ... people can feel differently about issues. And none of this means that those people who are making these decisions are trying to SIGNAL their VIRTUE. Sometime they just think that they want to do the RIGHT thing, and everybody's free to decide what the RIGHT THING is for themselves.
You know ... I have participated in support for the welfare of people far removed from myself for about 40 years now. I don't do that to SIGNAL my VIRTUE (I've very rarely mentioned it to anyone ... and I'm only mentioning it now as an personal example of my argument). I choose to do it because I think that it's the RIGHT THING for me to do.
Everybody that chooses to support a GOOD cause is not seeking the applause of their fellowman, ... though SOME surely do. Try not to be so cynical.
My own life experience.
Not even slightly. There is a power element to most of these encounters, and it's not the woman who feels empowered.
Well, that's true. But understand you'll probably frighten more women than you'll attract.
No. Let's not do that later if we need to.Let's just start with the idea that "toxic masculinity" is a real thing and not an umbrella term invented by man-hating feminists to describe anything they don't like about men.
Every.Single.Time this discussion comes up and a woman shares a story about receiving uncomfortable, unwanted or pushy sexual attention (or worse) another woman pipes up "I can relate". "I know what you mean".That must have been horrible. I can relate. And even the strongest woman can remember a time like that when she was terrified and didn’t know how to speak up for herself.
And this is something that I guess some women don't understand....most men will either never or very rarely be hit on by a woman. We have to to risk being rejected....something most women will only do a couple of times, men will do maybe hundreds of times throughout their lives.
If a man "scares off" or is rejected 99 times out of 100....that's a success! The one time he succeeded was worth the other 99....and he'd probably go through those 99 failures again for one success.
Ladies, you're always free to tell a man to stop catcalling you, it's not as if any women has ever been beaten or killed for doing so... oh wait, that has happened.
It's difficult to determine precisely how many women have been attacked on the basis of rejection; in fact, the list Mic has compiled, which consists of cases that occurred between Jan. 1, 2015 and Feb. 15, 2016 and were reported by media outlets, is likely far from comprehensive.
First, there's the issue of crime (under)reporting: Many instances of gender-based violence in particular are not reported, so we know we're not seeing the whole picture. Furthermore, we also don't track assaults and murders according to motive.
You keep on saying the negative response is rare, most women do not like the behavior, the behavior that crosses the line is not rare and their fear isn't rare. Strange men following you several blocks happens more than rarely. "But he didn't do anything to her! He just walked behind her, that's not illegal!" If it's not a problem then, let's not worry about adults talking to children in a park, it's rare that the child will be kidnapped and/or murdered, so we should not stifle these people.What's your point? If we socially stigmatize every single behavior that, when rejected or objected to, ended in one party illegally using force as a response, we're going to be stigmatizing a whole lot of things before the day is done.
That'd be like saying "Because debating sports has, on rare occasions, resulted in people getting so angry at a person, that they assaulted them...we a society should just do the honorable thing and demonize and stigmatize the practice of debating sports"
Implying that societies stance should be driven by "what could happen" based on the most extreme, rare, outlier examples isn't practical or logical.
Is there actually an epidemic of babies being thrown in dumpsters?
Why do you keep conflating this with the "PC crowd"? It has nothing to do with political correctness.As a little social experiment...if women (especially those in the PC crowd who love the Gillette ad) say billboards or a commercial saying this:
View attachment 249492
...what do you think the general response would be?
It's an abortion thing.
Why aren't we talking about it? Because some men get incensed that people might consider such behavior inappropriate.
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