Real time or evo time?

[RealityCheck01]

The mother of all premises science uses is assuming the same laws existed in the past.

That is half right, dad - one of the assumptions that scientists constantly test is that the laws of physics are valid now and were valid in the past.

Fantasies about changing physical laws are not an argument against ice cores being a natural calendar extending back 420,000 years, dad. What would be an argument would be stating how physical laws would change in order to make the calendar shorter as you seem to want.

I will ask the question again: 21 July 2016 dad: What changes in/replacement of the laws of physics will make ice cores not be natural calendars extending back 420,000 years?

N.B. Think about all of the consequences of the changes you propose. You do not want to destroy the Earth or wipe out life on Earth! Change Newtonian gravitation too much and the Earth moves out of the habitable zone around the Sun which is very bad.

ETA: Also consider the effects on the other natural calendars such as tree rings (back to 10,000 years ago), varves (back to 52,800 years ago), carbon dating (~50,000 years) and other radiometric dating techniques (billions of years).

The OP is definitely "Worthless. Garbage. Wrong. Unsupportable" with its fantasies of "imaginary time" and "evo time" but I doubt you are trashing your own post, dad!

 

[RealityCheck01]

You have still not addressed Stars demonstrate laws of physics that have not changed measurably over changes of billons of years. dad.

 

[dad]

That question is a bit ignorant, dad, because it is impossible to observe planets around stars outside of the Milky Way.

Bingo, so find another 'proof' for time being the same as here out there.

When we look at other orbits, e.g. stars in the Milky Way, then we see that there is not enough visible matter to explain the velocity of the stars as they get further from the center of the galaxy. Thus dark matter which is supported by about 9 lines of evidence.

False. Just because you need it. It..golly gee just must be there...invisible...hiding. Yeah right.

Therefore no one expects to confirm Newtonian gravitation in the far universe.

Great, so whoever says there is...read this..

A minority of scientists support modifying Newtonian mechanics to explain the evidence for dark matter.

Modifying a concept that may not even apply to the far universe...big deal.

Obviously time exists in the far universe - we see light from stars in the far universe !

So!?? You see light HERE. You see it in time. In no way does light existing mean time as we know and experience it here exists there!

The same processes that occur over time in local stars like the Sun are happening in the far universe.

Ha. In other words things from out there unfold here in time. That doesn't mean time is there. Things can move without earth time I suspect. Spiritual beings, for example.

 

[dad]

Pointing out the farce of evo time versus real time is something of substance. Especially compared to the premise of the thread in the first place.

Failure to support the evo time you cheerlead is a crime.

 

[dad]

A reasonable assumption that is tested as much as possible in science.
As an example: how stars work is a mixture of nuclear physics, gravitation and gas laws.

Says you. You don't even know how the sun works in realty. Stars may be small for all we know, so they could not work like you imagine if that was the case now could they? Unless time exists out there then it doesn't TAKE billions of years for anything to ,,do anything or go anywhere! Elementary. You preach religion.

When we look at stars we see light from the past. So a galaxy a billion light years away is a billon years old.

False! The billion years would mean time existed out there and you fail to prove it does. Gong!

But there is no evidence that the stars in far galaxies are different from local stars.

Or that time exists where close stars are?!!

So we have laws of physics that have not changed measurably over changes of billons of years.

No billions of years, and unless there was space and time as we know it, no laws of physics there either. I think space and time are involved in forces and laws..no?

I will address some ignorance:
Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology: What is the evidence for the Big Bang?
This is science
This is the the Big Bang.

Rather than spam links, pull out a point or two and use the links for support.

 

[Kylie]

Rather than go in silly circles, just post some clear representation.

Already done it. The fact that you can't understand it does not mean it is "silly circles".

Of course, I'm still waiting for you to post something clear about your ideas. You can't even pin down exactly when this change is meant to have happened. You can't show that there was any change in the way creatures lived their lives, and you can't explain any mechanism to explain what caused it. In short, you are invoking magic, nothing more.

 

[dad]

You have still not addressed Stars demonstrate laws of physics that have not changed measurably over changes of billons of years. dad.

done

 

[Kylie]

Done. My posts have shown a clear position with incredible details of why science is wrong, and God right.

LOL! No you haven't! Show me which post you made that includes any "incredible details." You can't even explain a mechanism by which this change occurred! Don't talk to me about "incredible details".

Don't flatter yourself. I looked, I laughed I flushed.

Maybe I should have said "understand." You can point your eyes at the words I write, but you certainly don't comprehend the arguments they deliver.

Lose the word. It doesn't become you.

Get over it. It's not your word. Reality is what can be SHOWN. And you have done a pretty poor job of showing that your idea is plausible in even the slightest degree.

That is not a game, it is a sick denial. If there is a God and creator, He would have HAD to leave some communication with us.

Why? Who are you to say what God MUST do?

Since science cannot tell us about any any state at all, we would need to remember it is eliminated from the peanut gallery.

So you admit that you would have nothing to indicate a different state past, yes?

 

[dad]

Already done it. The fact that you can't understand it does not mean it is "silly circles".

In all ways, you preach samestatepastacism, and hve no support at all, we understand. Be honest.

Of course, I'm still waiting for you to post something clear about your ideas. You can't even pin down exactly when this change is meant to have happened.

In the days of Peleg when the earth was split.

You can't show that there was any change in the way creatures lived their lives,

The evolving AFTER THE ARK had TO BE FAST, THAT IS A CHANGE FROM NOW. NOAH LIVED MANY MANY CENTURIES, THAT IS A CHANGE.

and you can't explain any mechanism to explain what caused it. In short, you are invoking magic, nothing more.

A mechanism implies something in our laws our nature our state. Think bigger.

 

[dad]

LOL! No you haven't! Show me which post you made that includes any "incredible details." You can't even explain a mechanism by which this change occurred! Don't talk to me about "incredible details".

Jesus is the creator, or the Great Mechanism. He sent the flood too. He brings heaven down, He made angels, etc etc. How else do you think a change of nature could have happened...accident!!??

Maybe I should have said "understand." You can point your eyes at the words I write, but you certainly don't comprehend the arguments they deliver.

Post them. Otherwise you are whistling Dixie.

Get over it. It's not your word. Reality is what can be SHOWN.

Science cannot SHOW the state of the future or past. That is the point.

And you have done a pretty poor job of showing that your idea is plausible in even the slightest degree.

Got any ideas that better fit Scripture?

Why? Who are you to say what God MUST do?

He gave us brains right? He must have communicated if there was a plan.

So you admit that you would have nothing to indicate a different state past, yes?

Nothing to indicate any state as far as science goes...it is belief only.

A science based argument that time is real for you dad.

Of course time is real here for us. God made the stars to mark time, and maybe even regulate or dictate what time is here...far as I know? The universe may be like a giant clock with all the little star clogs!

Snow falls on the Antarctic continent. During summer dust is mixed with the snow making it darker than winter snow. The snow is compacted into ice. A core from the ice will have dark layers corresponding to the annual addition of dust in summer. This is a natural calendar. So we count the layers to get a calendar - the Vostok ice cores go back 420,000 years.

Only if the laws were the same that long..otherwise some other facet of the nature that was did it.

You are imposing your beliefs on evidence. Bias. Slant.

 

[dad]

That is half right, dad - one of the assumptions that scientists constantly test is that the laws of physics are valid now and were valid in the past.

All wrong on that one, they believe..not test. Name one test.

Fantasies about changing physical laws are not an argument against ice cores being a natural calendar extending back 420,000 years, dad. What would be an argument would be stating how physical laws would change in order to make the calendar shorter as you seem to want.

Doesn't matter why. The issue is whether science knows.

I will ask the question again: 21 July 2016 dad: What changes in/replacement of the laws of physics will make ice cores not be natural calendars extending back 420,000 years?

Hundreds of thousands of layers do not mean years. Just because it now takes a year to make a layer or whatever means nothing.

What if, say, the founts of the deep exploded bringing up water and in some cases chemicals that froze water? Like a giant snow making machine? Things can happen fast when we are not limited to how things now are.

N.B. Think about all of the consequences of the changes you propose. You do not want to destroy the Earth or wipe out life on Earth! Change Newtonian gravitation too much and the Earth moves out of the habitable zone around the Sun which is very bad.

Again, you envision a change IN our laws. No. How about different forces and laws and a smooth planned change by the CREATOR?

ETA: Also consider the effects on the other natural calendars such as tree rings (back to 10,000 years ago), varves (back to 52,800 years ago), carbon dating (~50,000 years) and other radiometric dating techniques (billions of years).

Deposition in the former state and nature could have been fast fast fast. Maybe there was NO decay, so how could we assume decay caused all the daughter material? Maybe it was here already...doing whatever it used to do with different forces and laws of course, rather than decaying.

 

[AirPo]

Failure to support the evo time you cheerlead is a crime.

Making up stupid stuff is not.

 

[AirPo]

Already done it. The fact that you can't understand it does not mean it is "silly circles".

Of course, I'm still waiting for you to post something clear about your ideas. You can't even pin down exactly when this change is meant to have happened. You can't show that there was any change in the way creatures lived their lives, and you can't explain any mechanism to explain what caused it. In short, you are invoking magic, nothing more.

Responding to dad at all is the silly circle. So he's got you there. It's like one of AV's challanges. You lose just by responding.

 

[AirPo]

The evolving AFTER THE ARK had TO BE FAST, THAT IS A CHANGE FROM NOW. NOAH LIVED MANY MANY CENTURIES, THAT IS A CHANGE.

It's been years . And how did this hyper evolution stop? The same way it started, hyper imagination. In other words,

The HI Theory, .
1. Making stuff up is easy.
2. Never underestimate the power of the .
3. Refutation is futile.

 

[Kylie]

In all ways, you preach samestatepastacism, and hve no support at all, we understand. Be honest.

Are childish insults the only thing you have?

In the days of Peleg when the earth was split.

Despite the fact that all available evidence from reality indicates that tectonic drift has been going on for billions of years.

Yeah, sure dad. You've got a real convincing argument there.

The evolving AFTER THE ARK had TO BE FAST, THAT IS A CHANGE FROM NOW. NOAH LIVED MANY MANY CENTURIES, THAT IS A CHANGE.

WOW YELLING MAKES YOUR POINT BETTER DOESN'T IT?

All you are doing is starting with your conclusion and trying to fit your baseless ideas into the conclusion you started with. That's a terrible way to find things out.

A mechanism implies something in our laws our nature our state. Think bigger.

So that's a no, you can't explain what caused it to happen, or how it happened, or why it isn't still happening.

Why aren't animals still rapidly changing today, dad? Why aren't the continents racing around the world today, dad? You can't answer this, can you?

 

[Kylie]

Jesus is the creator, or the Great Mechanism. He sent the flood too. He brings heaven down, He made angels, etc etc. How else do you think a change of nature could have happened...accident!!??

Citation needed.

There is no evidence for your flood. There is no evidence for angels. There is no evidence of a change of nature.

If you want me to consider these things as proof of anything, you must first demonstrate that they are real.

Post them. Otherwise you are whistling Dixie.

I've done so, countless times. I'm not doing it again. I've got better things to do than waste my time posting arguments you are going to ignore anyway.

Science cannot SHOW the state of the future or past. That is the point.

Yes it can.

Got any ideas that better fit Scripture?

Prove to me that any explanation MUST fit scripture and I'll provide them.

He gave us brains right? He must have communicated if there was a plan.

No, we evolved brains. They were not provided by a deity of any form.

And if he did as you suggest, why are there so many different religious positions? Why is his message so garbled?

Nothing to indicate any state as far as science goes...it is belief only.

So you have nothing at all that you are able to prove is correct.

Of course time is real here for us. God made the stars to mark time, and maybe even regulate or dictate what time is here...far as I know? The universe may be like a giant clock with all the little star clogs!

Only if the laws were the same that long..otherwise some other facet of the nature that was did it.

You are imposing your beliefs on evidence. Bias. Slant.

Yeah, I didn't write any of that stuff you are replying to here. Care to actually use the quote tags to properly attribute your quotes to RealityCheck01 in post 634?

 

[Kylie]

Responding to dad at all is the silly circle. So he's got you there. It's like one of AV's challanges. You lose just by responding.

Everyone needs a hobby...

 

[AirPo]

Everyone needs a hobby...

I should have read your signature first.

 

[dad]

Making up stupid stuff is not.

Posting it won't help you here.

 

[dad]

It's been years . And how did this hyper evolution stop? ..

Simple, the same way life spans got shorter and trees started to take a long time to grow, etc etc...God changed nature probably.