read the Bible, but which one?

[Katianna]

How then should we understand for example this passage, the first of many after entering the promised land -

Joshua 6 20&21 (NRSV)

20So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpets, they raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat; so the people charged straight ahead into the city and captured it. 21Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.

in this article found here: christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html
you can read about the scientific evidence from an archaeological dig that confirms that the wall did indeed come down as described in the Bible.

God bless you!

 

[blessedmomof5]

Good Morning,
I must say this thread has taken me hours to read. but well worth it. I am not going to tell you what Bible to read bc everyone has their own valid points, but what i will say is that you do sound confused at best. On quite a few things from what i have been reading.
You seem to keep on saying if i had done this or if i had read that or like you are saying below if your life would have worked out diffrently if you used a diffrent translation. Do you honestly believe that? Then you go onto say how you went to church, Bible studys, afternoon readings and sometimes in the evenings also. but never did i hear you say I Prayed to the Lord to do His work through me.If it is His will it will be done. Were you talking from the flesh or from the spirit? 1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[b] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.


Do not get me wrong i too think i must understand everything exactely, as it is suppose to be. so thats why i try and get as mush understanding as possible.
I Pray often for Knowledge and understanding especially before i go ahead and read the Bible. because i know without him it would not be possible, Sometimes i am in Awe at what He shows me, and How He does it too....

I Pray that you come to find some peace in this matter, and that the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with the Knowledge you so desire.

Wow. 'not from this world' makes a lot more sense. I wonder if my life would have worked out differently if I had used a different translation.

When I read the gospel I did my best to follow it, but in the end couldn't 'get the power on the road'. In accordance with the command in Luke I did give my money away and follow the command to 'go tell people that the Kingdom of God is at hand' but there really didn't seem to be a message, anything more meaningful to tell people.

'My Kingdom is not of this world' just doesn't mean a lot. It seems to mean the Kingdom will always be off somewhere else, up in the sky perhaps because that is where the heavens are described as being located in Gen 1, but I said it was a spiritual dimension, and then couldn't really be a whole lot more specific other than to say there was a spiritual dimension and a spiritual warfare and then well we used resources in this one such as money and food to help the poor and that helped win the spiritual war.

Lk 4 42 At daybreak Jesus went out to a solitary place. The people were looking for him and when they came to where he was, they tried to keep him from leaving them. 43But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent." 44And he kept on preaching in the synagogues of Judea

Lk 8 1 After this, Jesus travelled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases

Lk 9 1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. 3He told them: "Take nothing for the journey—no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic.

LK 17 20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."


My Bible knowledge was limited to Luke and I can really only say that further reading would:

1. Have helped if I had also read the other gospels to get a better idea of what the Kingdom was all about, principally Mathew's Sermon on the Mount

2. Would have hindered because the good deeds demanded by the gospels, particularly Luke are then contradicted by the Pauline Epistles where faith is all that matters and good deeds are as filthy rags.


Scripture says the Spirit would guide us into all truth. I went to church morning, afternoon Bible Study, and sometimes evening as well, mid week Bible study, mid week prayer meeting, and had my own quiet hour reading the Bible, read almost the whole thing in the Good News (TEV) and had little idea how it all fitted together. Every Tuesday night the Christian Union had a visiting speaker and I listened to them, still no idea, just a multitude of bits and pieces, lots of opinions that conflicted with each other.


Well the Spirit was not guiding me but he must be guiding others, so I talked to other people and they had even less idea than I did. I even got appointed a Bible study teacher because of my knowledge, and although I knew loads of specifics and principles I still didn't have an overall picture.

Guidance was the big obstacle, that is I didn't have the whole road map, but I didn't even have the tiny little bit I was in, or what to do next.

The evangelists originally responsible for my conversion said 'God has a plan for your life', that was in the first of the four points.

When I decided to follow Jesus I then asked what that plan was and got referred to the Bible and, well, I've just described what happened. I bought a book called 'Guidance' and read it and basically it said that God has promised to guide.

After 10 years I just plain stopped. I wondered who I was really serving and what I was achieving. My own life and my own mental state had not improved either so I was evidently doing something wrong. So I paused awaiting instructions. I'm still waiting.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Hi MorkandMindy and everyone

Im a newbie and being new to the forum I am coming in late to your thread and have to say how remarkable it is --- thank you so much for starting this thread and how incredible all the answers were to your queries.

I learned so much and was wowed at the maturity of people's sincerity and faith.

hope you dont mind if I go back to the word firmament:
here is a definition from the dictionary:




the word firmament which was created in 1250-1300 can be translated to a scientific term under geophysics, troposphere, atmosphere, Ionosphere.

if you google Ionosphere and go look in wikipedia you will get a detailed scientific explanation of the firmament that God made.

the earth has changed a great deal since God first made it. the waters above the firmament are not as it was when originally made, some scientists have conjectured that the weather around the globe was the same, no desert conditions anywhere.

The atmosphere is in a sense 'holding up' and indeed protecting us from the radiation of the sun in the magnetosphere - when you read the article in wikipedia its like reading the very reason God created it all - to strengthen and support.

God bless you!

Hi Katianna and greetings from England,

I guess the message isn't dependent on the nature of the firmament (or 'dome') but the purpose, one of which must be, as you pointed out, to protect.

Another is the whole start of Gen 1 has God tidying up, separating light from darkness, water from land and so on, so the other key function the firmament has is as a separator to keep things tidy. Whether the stars are in the firmament and the rain water above it or the other way around is not a point to get hung up on as that is not what the section is principally about.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Good Morning,
I must say this thread has taken me hours to read. but well worth it. I am not going to tell you what Bible to read bc everyone has their own valid points, but what i will say is that you do sound confused at best. On quite a few things from what i have been reading.

Yes, certainly confused, and no less so now.

You seem to keep on saying if i had done this or if i had read that or like you are saying below if your life would have worked out diffrently if you used a diffrent translation. Do you honestly believe that? Then you go onto say how you went to church, Bible studys, afternoon readings and sometimes in the evenings also. but never did i hear you say I Prayed to the Lord to do His work through me.If it is His will it will be done. Were you talking from the flesh or from the spirit?

For the first two years I prayed a lot and before each Bible Study. The interesting thing is what the Bible Study was about seemed to happen in some way later that day.

Then the Bible Study moved on to Genesis and that was very interesting and it was summer then and all that sleeping out in the open or in tents in Judah was great. Then Acts, but then after Exodus came Joshua and Judges and that was nasty.

1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[b] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.


Do not get me wrong i too think i must understand everything exactely, as it is suppose to be. so thats why i try and get as mush understanding as possible.
I Pray often for Knowledge and understanding especially before i go ahead and read the Bible. because i know without him it would not be possible, Sometimes i am in Awe at what He shows me, and How He does it too....

As I got into more of the New Testament I got more confused. I thought I must be doing something wrong. If the Holy Spirit didn't want to tell me He must at least be telling others.

But the other Christians I knew had no better idea than I had, and eventually I bought Systematic Theology by Berkhof and a few other theology books.

There is Reformed Theology, Lutheran Theology, Catholic Theology (several), Dispensationalist Theology, and many more but there is no one single Christian or Biblical Theology. So my quest for the truth ended in disappointment. When people with more time and focus, and a good knowledge of Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek couldn't produce a consistent message from the Bible I knew I had no chance.

I Pray that you come to find some peace in this matter, and that the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with the Knowledge you so desire.

Well thank you, Mork of M&M

 

[blessedmomof5]

Yes, certainly confused, and no less so now.



For the first two years I prayed a lot and before each Bible Study. The interesting thing is what the Bible Study was about seemed to happen in some way later that day.

Wow that happenes to me Almost everyday,Prasing you Oh Lord



Then the Bible Study moved on to Genesis and that was very interesting and it was summer then and all that sleeping out in the open or in tents in Judah was great. Then Acts, but then after Exodus came Joshua and Judges and that was nasty.
No advice just Love wish i could have said more but i let the Holy spirit speak through me and there was nothing so, then His will be done!


As I got into more of the New Testament I got more confused. I thought I must be doing something wrong. If the Holy Spirit didn't want to tell me He must at least be telling others.

So I must have gotten lost in this thread on that post about the confusion in the NT, what are you confused about?



But the other Christians I knew had no better idea than I had, and eventually I bought Systematic Theology by Berkhof and a few other theology books.

There is Reformed Theology, Lutheran Theology, Catholic Theology (several), Dispensationalist Theology, and many more but there is no one single Christian or Biblical Theology. So my quest for the truth ended in disappointment. When people with more time and focus, and a good knowledge of Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek couldn't produce a consistent message from the Bible I knew I had no chance.

How about you let GOD lead you to the Truth Ask and ye shall recieve

Well thank you, Mork of M&M

You are welcome, but there is no need to thank me for i can do nothing on my own But with Christ everything is possible

 

[MorkandMindy]

Yes, certainly confused, and no less so now.

For the first two years I prayed a lot and before each Bible Study. The interesting thing is what the Bible Study was about seemed to happen in some way later that day.

Wow that happenes to me Almost everyday,Prasing you Oh Lord

Then the Bible Study moved on to Genesis and that was very interesting and it was summer then and all that sleeping out in the open or in tents in Judah was great. Then Acts, but then after Exodus came Joshua and Judges and that was nasty.

No advice just Love wish i could have said more but i let the Holy spirit speak through me and there was nothing so, then His will be done!

As I got into more of the New Testament I got more confused. I thought I must be doing something wrong. If the Holy Spirit didn't want to tell me He must at least be telling others.

But the other Christians I knew had no better idea than I had, and eventually I bought Systematic Theology by Berkhof and a few other theology books.

There is Reformed Theology, Lutheran Theology, Catholic Theology (several), Dispensationalist Theology, and many more but there is no one single Christian or Biblical Theology. So my quest for the truth ended in disappointment. When people with more time and focus, and a good knowledge of Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek couldn't produce a consistent message from the Bible I knew I had no chance.

How about you let GOD lead you to the Truth Ask and ye shall recieve

Well thank you, Mork of M&M

You are welcome, but there is no need to thank me for i can do nothing on my own But with Christ everything is possible

Again, thank you for your reply and concern. After reading it I did get a blinding bit of understanding, work to do now, will post it soon.

 

[Thankful For Grace]

Dear Mork and Mindy,

I also spent quite some time reading this thread, and agree that it was worth it. I identify with your desire to know absolute Truth. In fact, when I was seeking Christ almost 40 years ago, now, the specific thing I asked of Him was that He teach me Absolute Truth. I told Him, “Please show me absolute Truth. I don’t want to be deceived.” He has been so faithful to me over the years as I have studied, to guide me in understanding His Word. All Jesus, and All Mercy. Of course, there is always more to learn, since this Christian life is a journey!

I have been reading the Bible ever since that time, and the Lord has taught me so many things, but the most important thing He has taught me is that what He desires is relationship with His children, and that reading the scriptures is the avenue to developing that relationship, because they reveal Him.

It is like spending time with a person allows you to get to know that person. Spending time in the Word allows you to know the Living Word, Jesus, Himself, Who is God, Incarnate.

From your posts, I can see that you sought out many different denominations and Christians in your search to understand and do God’s Will. We all need fellowship, so that is not a bad thing.

However, what is more important for you, right now, is to have fellowship with Jesus, Himself. As a young Christian, I also did a bit of church searching, and was in a similar predicament to yours. Then, I decided to spend a few years in the Word and became grounded in Jesus, Himself. (Note: I stayed in fellowship with other Christians during this time through church attendance and a prayer group--not advocating separating from fellowship, just making personal relationship with Jesus the priority) I am now very happy in a church fellowship, and love my fellow believers—even when I don’t always agree with them on ‘non-salvation’ issues, like the literal interpretation of scripture (I personally believe it is literal), the timing of the Rapture (I believe scripture is clear on what is now termed the ‘prewrath’ viewpoint), predestination (lean away from Calvinism), etc. I believe what I believe because of what I have personally learned through years of studying the Word, but I have loving fellowship with many who do not agree with all I believe but who hold the one crucial belief—Jesus Christ and Him crucified to atone for sin and to save sinners, Who is the Savior of all who have faith in His finished work of the Cross.

Whatever you do, keep reading the Word and keep seeking Christ. I would encourage you at this juncture to read the New Testament over and over (and over and over), and wait awhile before going back into the OT. Just soak in the New Covenant. Let the Holy Spirit bathe you with insight and truth. Pray for guidance, and if you don’t understand something, pray for understanding. And ask questions of posters who you discern to be men and women of the Word, too—but always let the actual Word mold your beliefs.

As to versions, here is some info that may help.

It is important to be able to comprehend what you are reading, so I understand your conflict re: the KJV. Here is what I would encourage you to do. Invest in a parallel KJV and Amplified version of the NT. Read the KJV and go to the Amplified side for clarification when the wording is confusing. The reason I suggest this method is that the KJV is translated from the Greek Textus Receptus, and it is arguably the soundest Greek text available. A little internet research will clarify this. I have read many English versions of the Bible, including NIV, NASU, Amplified, RSV, Amplified, Living (my first ‘Bible’, very popular at the time) and several Greek/English interlinear versions. The best of the best (in English) is the Pure Cambridge (version of the KJV) Bible, but a current KJV will be better than most other translations, and the following is why:

Here is some info about translations that might interest you. This was given to me by a friend of mine who has a Doctorate in Exegesis. I would welcome any comments from scholars who have additional information—I am simply quoting in the following what was told to me.

The NIV removed 64,000 words from the KJV (Textus Receptus) and 650 words from Jesus.
The NIV uses the Alexandrian text, which was where the Gnostics were found, instead of the Textus Receptus.
The NIV removes the name of Jesus 87 times.
The word Christ is removed 39 times.
It changed the phrase “My Father” to “the Father” 14 times, reducing intimacy.

NASV crosses out over 900 verses found in the KJV.
RSV crosses out 788 verses.
NIV crosses out 695 verses.
Amplified crosses out 484 verses.

_________________________________________

Keep seeking to know Jesus better with ALL of your heart. You will find. He promised.

Blessings and prayers

TFG

 

[MorkandMindy]

Greetings TFG

Your recommendation and that of 1611VET are unequivocally in favour of the KJV so I think the question of version is resolved.


(As much as I also liked the NJB, NRSV and few others)

Part of the doctrine of the Free Evangelical Church when I was a member was that the Scriptures were inerrant in the original manuscripts. This was rather puzzling as I had no way to determine what those original manuscripts said as we have little before the Council of Nicea around 325, and no one expects to ever find those original manuscripts. And it does leave me puzzled why God choose to preserve the KJV only and not the original manuscripts which would be of value to all human language versions rather than just English,

But KJV it is.

My next problem is which bits are literally true and which bits are meant to be taken differently.

I'll try to find that out by opening a new thread called: 'Understanding the Bible'

 

[MorkandMindy]

in this article found here: christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html
you can read about the scientific evidence from an archaeological dig that confirms that the wall did indeed come down as described in the Bible.

God bless you!

Greetings Katianna

I'm sure you are being helpful but...

Even the best evidence of both the slaughter and God's command being followed by Joshua,

wouldn't make things better

If for example many infant bones were found with clear evidence they had been cut in half with great enthusiasm by Joshua's fervent soldiers, by the clear command of God, well, frankly that would finish it. I have no interest in a God like that

.

 

[Thankful For Grace]

Greetings, again, Mork and Mindy,

You will probably find many, many different opinions as to the inerrancy of scripture. I would like to follow that string. Please let me know where it is when you get it going. Thoughts and prayers with you.

TFG