Re: Breast Augmentation

[symphonyb]

Do you have kids? When I had each of my kids, my bOObs got bigger each time, I am now happy. I had NONE before.

that happens for some of us,others it just doesn't for some reason..
do what you the woman really feels best for you.

 

[Merlin]

Flashskeletal

For many of us, it's just clothing fitting right.
Imagine a huge belly. (opposite, but similar)
Clothes don't fit right.
Womens clothes are made for a B +/- one size.
But if smaller than an A cup, clothes just don't fit right..

That's often the issue.

 

[CCe]

Luvlearningtotrust:

First off, I hope my post is helpful. Second, I recognize as a man that I can’t truly understand women and the breast size issue. I also want to recognize that I am fundamentally opposed to breast implants – but also realize that all people have their issues or temptations or struggles to deal with. I also agree with Springdew to remember the long term consequences of breast implants in regard to breast feeding (the real reason behind breasts), but also that there is no research looking at the long term effects of breast implants (like 30 years down the road) and that most plastic surgeries care about is money (its not their problem 30 years later).

However, there was one comment that you made in another post about small breasts – in the women who struggle with small breasts forum (which I located by doing a search on your name relevant to topics) and it was your boyfriend who suggested that larger breasts have more power. Such comments by men are not helpful, they cause greater doubt. What your boyfriend – or any male who loves you – should say is that the most important aspects of your breasts are what lie behind them – your heart. I think a big part of the breast implant movement are cro-magnum men who need to grow up and stop acting like boys going through puberty. Although I think more men than not are cro-magnum types, there are good Christian men out there that could care less about breast size and do not allow breasts to have any power over them. I know as a male it is easy to say, but use the scriptures and the Lord to help you see your worth, not a worldly Barbie-doll image (which includes non-surgical strategies also – sorry I disagree Cce). I was asking about other options (meaning other than surgery)

I hope my comments are helpful.

To others:

Did anyone read the post on against breast implants? I’m just curious about general thoughts.

.

 

[asianangel]

Hmmm no I agree with you Flashskeletal...not just about implants its about cosmetic surgery in general (well, if the person had cancer or been in an accident or needs it to survive those are exceptions I suppose). Why mess with perfection?

 

[The Julikenz]

Why mess with perfection?

I hope you don't straighten, curl, or style your hair.
Or polish your nails.
Or wear any body piercings or jewelry.

 

[asianangel]

I hope you don't straighten, curl, or style your hair.
Or polish your nails.
Or wear any body piercings or jewelry.

Actually I hate nail polish and no I do not have any piercings. I hate jewellery because I work in labs and they get in the way. I do not do anything that permanently changes my health and wellbeing and no I have never dyed my hair...(I have curled it a couple of times for fun...and I don't need to straighten it, it is naturally straight). Why am I getting persecuted for truly loving my own body and appreciating what God gave me? (A healthy, strong, physically/mentally able body). Loving means respecting. And just to clarify, when I say 'perfection' I mean the way the human body is structured and the way it works physiologically...I don't mean it in a superficial way. The human body is an amazing thing and the way it works is so well designed...that's what I mean by 'perfection'...all I am saying is, instead of being so worried about the outside, take care of our health first because God has given us such wonderfully designed 'vessel' we should at least appreciate it. ANyway you might think I'm weird but it's just my take on things. Cheers~

 

[The Julikenz]

Actually I hate nail polish and no I do not have any piercings. I hate jewellery because I work in labs and they get in the way. I do not do anything that permanently changes my health and wellbeing and no I have never dyed my hair...(I have curled it a couple of times for fun...and I don't need to straighten it, it is naturally straight). Why am I getting persecuted for truly loving my own body and appreciating what God gave me? (A healthy, strong, physically/mentally able body). Loving means respecting. And just to clarify, when I say 'perfection' I mean the way the human body is structured and the way it works physiologically...I don't mean it in a superficial way. The human body is an amazing thing and the way it works is so well designed...that's what I mean by 'perfection'...all I am saying is, instead of being so worried about the outside, take care of our health first because God has given us such wonderfully designed 'vessel' we should at least appreciate it. ANyway you might think I'm weird but it's just my take on things. Cheers~

I'm not persecuting you.

You're posts lack clarification, and contain some very broad Christian jargon. There are inconsistencies in what you're saying, which make it hard to determine where you're coming from. Thanks for giving some detail in your above post, I understand you now as saying you feel people should appreciate how bodies are structured physiologically because they function well for their purpose, and therefore should not change anything purely for aesthetic - Is this correct?

 

[asianangel]

I understand you now as saying you feel people should appreciate how bodies are structured physiologically because they function well for their purpose, and therefore should not change anything purely for aesthetic - Is this correct?

Well, sort of but not really. You are right about them functioning well for their purpose though. Sorry about the Christian jargon (I didn't realise I had any) lol but I have the same opinion I have now as I did when I was an athiest only now I have all the more reason to respect God's work and putting Him before myself...but yeh you already know that lol...

My non-Christian point of view before my conversion...

I understand that it is perfectly normal to want to be at our physical best. So it doesn't mean that we should never try to improve ourselves. But this means that we have to stop critising and judging ourselves even when we aren't at our healthiest or most attractive.

"The drive for self improvement is completely healthy as long as it comes from a place of self-love rather than a feeling of inadequacy." We have to be honest with ourselves when we ask ourselves that question, especially when it involves a surgical procedure. In the long run, our bodies change and may present more challenges...say a health issue. And I think that our bodies have enough challenges without the added weight of a surgical procedure which can be avoided. In general...I think just most people put their bodies/looks as a measure of their own self-worth which is a sad situation...and instead of changing from the inside (the source of the problem), resort to cosmetic surgery which produces further problems.

Anyway I do not mean "noo don't wear make-up" "don't wear jewellery!" I'm purely talking about surgical procedures. A little lipstick never hurts anybody .

Oh and one more thing-don't feel like you have to change you looks to be worthy of being loved by someone else-ESPECIALLY yourself. I think this can apply to everyone and not just Christians...I am a normal person and I still haven't fully learnt this lesson yet but I think I've gone a long way since then...

 

[Merlin]

Anyway I do not mean "noo don't wear make-up" "don't wear jewellery!" I'm purely talking about surgical procedures. A little lipstick never hurts anybody .

Then how do you feel if the boobs are made bigger without surgery and without chemical additives?

 

[Flashskeletal]

First off, I am not planning on getting into a protracted debate – I just want to add a short comment.

Julikenz:

So let me get this straight, you are comparing wearing jewelry or polishing nails to breast implants? Do you actually think these are parallel actions? The most interesting aspect of your posts is how you treat breast implants as parallel to curling one’s hair. In a recent book (titled the Paradox of Choice) regarding choice and how economic choice destroys lives, the respected psychologist Dr. Barry Schwartz underscores how the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has marketed and exploited women (and men) to think of plastic surgeries as little actions. In fact, one of the higher administrators of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has stated the following “We think of it [plastic surgery] like getting your nails done of going to a spa” (see p. 34 in the book The paradox of choice). There are many academic sources that underscore how plastic surgeons take vulnerable aspects of female sexuality and exploit women to make a profit off of them. Perhaps one of the best studies was Dr. Virginia Blum who went undercover and wrote the book “Flesh wounds: The Culture of Cosmetic Surgery.” Her research outlines very clearly how plastic surgeons manipulate women to get non-needed plastic surgery and make a lot of profit by highlighting very sensitive issues. Further, getting breast implants is not parallel to curling your hair – that is warped thinking. As with any surgery there are risk of bleeding and infection. There are NO long term studies of the side effects of breast implants (20 years later) and something like 10-20% cosmetic surgeries need to be revised after the original surgery (which is good for business for plastic surgeons). And I will not even add the issue of scalpel addiction.

To this end, did anyone read the MSNBC article on cosmetic surgery being a commencement gift for teens? Although it is a popular magazine article, I find it interesting and helpful regarding this topic – especially about the societal norms it reinforces (quick fixes for mental health problems). You can view it at www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17932515.

With this said, however, I can agree that some of the behaviors you have outlined – like jewelry – does parallel one aspect of cosmetic surgery, which is the attempt to covet and show one’s superior status via false gods. But, such actions have no place with Christians (unless, of course, you want to change the scriptures to serve yourself).

I agree with AsianAngel – the key is (1) to grow as close to Christ as possible through our actions (like serving the poor and needy), and (2) to focus on healthy aspects of our body (e.g., exercise) as to show respect to God for his creation. And putting weird substances in our bodies to fit a worldly Barbie doll image has no place in Christianity.

 

[bourgeois89]

No where in the bible does it say that you can get fake boobs!

This is the problem with so many christians today, they take the scripture and twist it so it fits their views and opinions.

YOu shouldnt get fake boobse because its costly and there is people in need? Yeah right.

That is like saying oh wow, there is zillions of homeless people in america, so none of us should have big fancy houses, that wouldnt be christian.

Sweety If you want boobs get em! God is not going to hate you for you spending your hard earned money on a nice rack.

*end rant*

 

[asianangel]

Then how do you feel if the boobs are made bigger without surgery and without chemical additives?

I don't know. I don't know if it is proven safe, or if there is enough evidence to say otherwise. Or how effective it is. Read my 'atheistic' opinion above for those who don't like the 'Christian' perspective. I reckon the athiest persepctive is quite logical and pretty hard to provide a rebuttal because it's so true. Anyway it's really up to you. BUT be honest with yourself and be honest with God. I think all I'm saying is that the 'whys' behind it...it's all about the whys.

 

[asianangel]

(1) to grow as close to Christ as possible through our actions (like serving the poor and needy), and (2) to focus on healthy aspects of our body (e.g., exercise) as to show respect to God for his creation. And putting weird substances in our bodies to fit a worldly Barbie doll image has no place in Christianity

Words to live by. You do not need to be a Christian to understand this either. Applicable to anyone really.

In fact, one of the higher administrators of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has stated the following “We think of it [plastic surgery] like getting your nails done of going to a spa” (see p. 34 in the book The paradox of choice). There are many academic sources that underscore how plastic surgeons take vulnerable aspects of female sexuality and exploit women to make a profit off of them.

I think that trap it works pretty well too. It's more widespread than America though...in Korea plastic surgery is an obsession (parents force their kids to get it, they're only kids too, it's shocking). We just don't hear about it a lot...and I don't get people trying to get big lips like Angelina Jolie...don't they understand that only she has the facial structure to pull it off? ???

 

[seamonster]

No where in the bible does it say that you can get fake boobs!

This is the problem with so many christians today, they take the scripture and twist it so it fits their views and opinions.

YOu shouldnt get fake boobse because its costly and there is people in need? Yeah right.

That is like saying oh wow, there is zillions of homeless people in america, so none of us should have big fancy houses, that wouldnt be christian.

Sweety If you want boobs get em! God is not going to hate you for you spending your hard earned money on a nice rack.

*end rant*

Exactly.

 

[The Julikenz]

Well, sort of but not really. You are right about them functioning well for their purpose though. Sorry about the Christian jargon (I didn't realise I had any) lol but I have the same opinion I have now as I did when I was an athiest only now I have all the more reason to respect God's work and putting Him before myself...but yeh you already know that lol...

My non-Christian point of view before my conversion...

I understand that it is perfectly normal to want to be at our physical best. So it doesn't mean that we should never try to improve ourselves. But this means that we have to stop critising and judging ourselves even when we aren't at our healthiest or most attractive.

"The drive for self improvement is completely healthy as long as it comes from a place of self-love rather than a feeling of inadequacy." We have to be honest with ourselves when we ask ourselves that question, especially when it involves a surgical procedure. In the long run, our bodies change and may present more challenges...say a health issue. And I think that our bodies have enough challenges without the added weight of a surgical procedure which can be avoided. In general...I think just most people put their bodies/looks as a measure of their own self-worth which is a sad situation...and instead of changing from the inside (the source of the problem), resort to cosmetic surgery which produces further problems.

Anyway I do not mean "noo don't wear make-up" "don't wear jewellery!" I'm purely talking about surgical procedures. A little lipstick never hurts anybody .

Oh and one more thing-don't feel like you have to change you looks to be worthy of being loved by someone else-ESPECIALLY yourself. I think this can apply to everyone and not just Christians...I am a normal person and I still haven't fully learnt this lesson yet but I think I've gone a long way since then...

I really appreciated this post, it addressed the topic thoroughly.

First off, I am not planning on getting into a protracted debate – I just want to add a short comment.

Julikenz:

So let me get this straight, you are comparing wearing jewelry or polishing nails to breast implants? Do you actually think these are parallel actions? The most interesting aspect of your posts is how you treat breast implants as parallel to curling one’s hair. In a recent book (titled the Paradox of Choice) regarding choice and how economic choice destroys lives, the respected psychologist Dr. Barry Schwartz underscores how the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has marketed and exploited women (and men) to think of plastic surgeries as little actions. In fact, one of the higher administrators of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has stated the following “We think of it [plastic surgery] like getting your nails done of going to a spa” (see p. 34 in the book The paradox of choice). There are many academic sources that underscore how plastic surgeons take vulnerable aspects of female sexuality and exploit women to make a profit off of them. Perhaps one of the best studies was Dr. Virginia Blum who went undercover and wrote the book “Flesh wounds: The Culture of Cosmetic Surgery.” Her research outlines very clearly how plastic surgeons manipulate women to get non-needed plastic surgery and make a lot of profit by highlighting very sensitive issues. Further, getting breast implants is not parallel to curling your hair – that is warped thinking. As with any surgery there are risk of bleeding and infection. There are NO long term studies of the side effects of breast implants (20 years later) and something like 10-20% cosmetic surgeries need to be revised after the original surgery (which is good for business for plastic surgeons). And I will not even add the issue of scalpel addiction.

To this end, did anyone read the MSNBC article on cosmetic surgery being a commencement gift for teens? Although it is a popular magazine article, I find it interesting and helpful regarding this topic – especially about the societal norms it reinforces (quick fixes for mental health problems). You can view it at www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17932515.

With this said, however, I can agree that some of the behaviors you have outlined – like jewelry – does parallel one aspect of cosmetic surgery, which is the attempt to covet and show one’s superior status via false gods. But, such actions have no place with Christians (unless, of course, you want to change the scriptures to serve yourself).

I agree with AsianAngel – the key is (1) to grow as close to Christ as possible through our actions (like serving the poor and needy), and (2) to focus on healthy aspects of our body (e.g., exercise) as to show respect to God for his creation. And putting weird substances in our bodies to fit a worldly Barbie doll image has no place in Christianity.

I wasn't attempting to put the procedure on the same level as curling your hair, I was trying to provoke people into thinking out answers past surfacey 'don't do this because it's vain' type answers, and get them to draw on logical and sustained answers rooted in research and thought.

I do actually care that the OP gets some good replies, even if I don't agree with the position of them.

 

[asianangel]

No probs Julikenz~! I wasn't trying to change anyone's opinions but it is always good to broaden our way of thinking. At least you can see where I'm coming from. Don't want misunderstandings. Thanks for the rep =)

 

[Flashskeletal]

Bourgeois:

Tell me you are not serious with your statement “No where in the bible does it say that you can get fake boobs!” If I follow your logic, then I could rationale all sorts of sinful actions. For example, I could smoke crack cocaine because no where in the Bible does it say that you can’t smoke crack cocaine. Likewise, I could conduct church fundraisers via wet T-shirts and male wet underwear contests because no where in the Bible does it say that you can’t participate in these contests.

Behaviors are based on intentions and values and the behavior of breast implants and augmentation is based on a worldly Barbie doll image that has nothing to do with Christian values. It’s about coveting a body shape that reinforces the societal perspective that women are sex objects. It is a behavior and value that I believe God would disapprove of.

 

[bourgeois89]

Bourgeois:

Tell me you are not serious with your statement “No where in the bible does it say that you can get fake boobs!” If I follow your logic, then I could rationale all sorts of sinful actions. For example, I could smoke crack cocaine because no where in the Bible does it say that you can’t smoke crack cocaine. Likewise, I could conduct church fundraisers via wet T-shirts and male wet underwear contests because no where in the Bible does it say that you can’t participate in these contests.

Behaviors are based on intentions and values and the behavior of breast implants and augmentation is based on a worldly Barbie doll image that has nothing to do with Christian values. It’s about coveting a body shape that reinforces the societal perspective that women are sex objects. It is a behavior and value that I believe God would disapprove of.

No you are not understanding what im saying, you people are interpretating the bible way to literally.

No it does not say in the bible not to smoke crack, but what id does say is that your body is a temple and to take care of it.

Now crack hurts your body.

But getting fake boobs? ARE YOU KIDDING ME

You are all basing your descion on the fact that its vanity.

Its ok to wear makeup and earings and fancy clothes, but you can get surgery to improve yourself?

I can understand if she was getting boobs to be a playmate or stripper and you guys were like thats a sin.

She is getting it for herself. NOONE ELSE.

Following your reasoning we should all wear potatoe sacks and live in antartica reading the bible all day.

BARBIE DOLL IMAGE? yeah right. She simple wants boobs. I have huge boobs, would it be a sin by your views for me to get a breast reduction?

 

[Flashskeletal]

Bourgeois:

This is my last post here – I just do not have the time to end up in a protracted debate.

I agree with you that the clothes issue you are bringing up does have some merit. Yes, people will buy certain clothes for the same reasons they will get breast implants – vanity and status. To this end, my argument against breast implants extends to clothes and other status and vanity oriented objects.

Where I disagree with you is in the area of following Jesus Christ. To me, the example of the Savior is very important and I think we should follow Him. That means living simply lives – it does not mean potato sacks for clothes (you are using straw man fallacy – this is when an opponent’s position is presented inaccurately as so extreme that it’s indefensible.). It means trying to act as He would and the Savior would not buy fancy and expensive clothes and He certainly would not approve of a woman putting a weird and foreign substance in her body so that her breasts are bigger (to please the male gaze).

 

[Lludmila]

I have huge boobs, would it be a sin by your views for me to get a breast reduction?

Yeah! *pretends to jeer*

You're vain too! NOT!!!!

I, in complete honesty, agree with you 100%.

In addition, may I introduce/remind y'all of the concept of PROSTHETIC BREASTS? They are sometimes given to women who have had mastectomies after breast cancer. They are not for vanity purposes, but to reinforce the woman's dignity of her womanliness.