rapture

[God_of_Mercy]

Where in the bible does it mention the rapture???

 

[E-vangelist]

The Bible never really has the rapture mentioned directely through the Bible, but the Bible has verses that refer to it. Mainly in 1 Corinthians 15:51.

If any body else how knows more about the rapture I would apreciate it if you could give God_of_Mercy and I more verse that refer to it.


God Bless
E-vangelist

 

[Iollain]

1 Thessalonians 4
13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is the Rapture.

 

[Follower of Christ]

Becuase of Jesus desciption here and a few other passages (this being one of the clearest), I dont beleive there will be a separate ''rapture'' before or halfway thru the tribulation..

Jesus describes it as being in the day of Sodom.
In that instance, God people were removed and then immediate judgement/wrath came.

And He said to the disciples, The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you shall not see it. And they shall say to you, Lo, here! or, behold, there! Do not go away, nor follow.
For as the lightning which lights up, flashing from the one part under heaven, and shines to the other part under heaven, so also shall the Son of Man be in His day.
But first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this generation.

And as it was in the days of Noah, so it also shall be in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and the flood came and destroyed them all.

So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all.

Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

In that day he who shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise, he who is in the field, let him not return to the things behind.
Remember Lot's wife. Whoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two shall be grinding together, one will be taken, and the other left. Two shall be in the field, one will be taken, and the other left.
(Luk 17:22-36 MKJV)

And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.

He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
(Mat 24:30-31 MKJV)

But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father. But as the days of Noah were, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark. And they did not know until the flood came and took them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Therefore watch; for you do not know what hour your Lord comes.
(Mat 24:36-42 MKJV)

I believe based on this descpription that Jesus will return later in that 7 year period and His angels will gather His elect (rapture, ressurectoin) and then the first of the 7 bowls of Gods wrath will then be poured out on the earth.......

 

[JMJ]

1 Thessalonians 4
13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is the Rapture.

Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

 

[~WildRoseCowgirl~]

The whole book of Revelations is about the rapture, what will happen before and after the rapture, It is a very very interesting read!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

from the Orthodox point of view.... quote form an Orthodox publication
Forgive me.....

Left Behind – What Is Rapture?

Feeling “Left Behind?”

The popularity of some recent books, videos and even a movie on what is commonly called “rapture” could leave you feeling “Left Behind”. It can be hard not to feel left out as friends and others talk about the popular series.​

Don’t feel left out or left behind. The Orthodox, Roman Catholic and mainstream Protestant Churches all reject this popular myth. You might be surprised to know that the idea of rapture didn’t even exist until about 170 years ago. No Christian believed in this term for the first 1,800 years of Christianity.

Let's start by discussing about what in the world people are talking about. Rapture is a popular term among some Protestant sects for the raising of the faithful from the dead. This part we can all agree on, but there’s more to it than that.

The belief in rapture tends to be what is called “pre-tribulation”. Believers of pre-tribulation rapture teach that this raising up will be prior to or after a period of immense trouble or “tribulation” (that’s why its pre, meaning before). After the 7 years of tribulation they then believe that there will be 1000 years of peace followed by the day of final judgment.

Orthodoxy rejects these teachings as being heretical in nature. There is also potential for great harm in mass dissemination of the notion of rapture.

Where Did the Term Rapture Come From?

All Christians up until the 1830’s believed in basically the same things about the second coming of Christ. During the 1830’s Margaret Macdonald, a Scottish member of a sect known as the Irvingites, made the first claim that there would be a trance (or rapture) and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. The Protestant leader John Nelson Darby picked up this view. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield picked up Darby’s views and placed them in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible. This Bible was widely used in England and America and many who read it readily accepted the idea of rapture.

Since that time other views on rapture have started, but all are still based on the notion of the rapture itself.

What is the “Orthodox View?”

As Orthodox Christians, we believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ, the ensuing judgment of our sins and the resulting eternal life, spent either in bliss or in torment. Everything that the Bible says about a time of tribulation and suffering is accepted, but that the faithful will be present for all of it.

Christ himself tells us that all will suffer and that no one knows when he will return for judgment day.

Why Don't We Believe Rapture?

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate on another.
Then many false profets will rise up and deceive many.
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

First of all we have to be suspicious something that no Church taught for 1,800 years suddenly emerges. That’s not enough of a reason to simply reject it, but it does mean that it should be viewed carefully.

Without getting into complex interpretations of Scripture, here are some basic Orthodox considerations:

• Tradition: The Orthodox teachings about the end of the world reflect 2000 years of tradition originating with Christ’s Apostles. Believe it or not, the Church Fathers and their successors weren’t ignorant of scripture. We follow the teachings of the Church to avoid shortsighted interpretations of Scripture. This has helped the Orthodox Church avoid the spread of heretical teachings.
• Shaky Scriptural Basis: Through all the wonderful, intelligent teachers Christianity has had over time (Orthodox & non-Orthodox), the idea of rapture didn’t come about until it was envisioned by a 15 year old girl in Scotland in the year 1830. The modern arguments in favor or rapture can be called into question through an even handed examination of the passages commonly used when arguing in favor of it. Even among Protestant denominations who believe in a totally literal reading of scripture rapture is not universally accepted.

Is It Dangerous to Believe “Left Behind”?

Yes, it may well be. Many of the arguments used in favor of rapture are taken from the Book of Revelation. Chapter 22:18 & 19 warn that anyone who adds to or takes away from the words in Revelation will meet with punishment from God. The interpretation of Revelation is therefore a very sticky issue. Revelation is the only New Testament book that the Orthodox Church doesn’t read in any of its worship. Saint Peter also warns us that no prophecy is to be of private interpretation, yet many insist of reading into the book of Revelation.

Focus on the True Issue

Rather than argue over what the end will look like, we should keep in mind one unavoidable fact; we will all face judgment. Christ will examine each of us and as a result those who have done good will be resurrected to life and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (John 5:29) Everything beyond preparing for Christ’s second coming (and judgment) is nothing more than a distraction. You have to ask who would benefit the most by causing us to be distracted?

Dave Elfering
St. John the Baptist Greek Orthodox Church
Omaha, NE

 

[Tenorvoice]

RAPTURE Theological term not used in the Bible. The imminent translation or removal from earth of the Church at the second coming of Christ (Mt 24:36-42; Mk 13:32; Ac 1:7, 11; 1Co 15:50-52; 1Th 4:14-18; Titus 2:13; 1Pe 3:12; Rev 1:7). Includes both living and dead (1Co 15:50-52; Php 3:20-21; 1Th 4:13-17; 1Jn 3:2). Followed by the marriage of the Church to Christ (Mt 25:1-10; 2Co 11:2; Eph 5:23, 32; Rev 19:6-9), believers being rewarded (Mt 25:19; 1Co 3:12-15; 2Co 5:10; 2Ti 4:8; 1Pe 5:2).

SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

Called the: Times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord (Ac 3:19). Times of restitution of all things (Ac 3:21, w Ro 8:21). Last time (1Pe 1:5). Appearing of Jesus Christ (1Pe 1:7). Revelation of Jesus Christ (1Pe 1:13). Glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior (Titus 2:13). Coming of the day of God (2Pe 3:12). Day of our Lord Jesus Christ (1Co 1:8).

Foretold by: Prophets (Da 7:13; Jude 14). Jesus (Mt 25:31; Jn 14:3). Apostles (Ac 3:20; 1Ti 6:14). Angels (Ac 1:10-11). Signs preceding (Mt 24:3). The time of, unknown (Mt 24:36; Mk 13:32).

The Manner of: In clouds (Mt 24:30; 26:64; Rev 1:7). In the glory of his Father (Mt 16:27). In his own glory (Mt 25:31). In flaming fire (2Th 1:8). With power and great glory (Mt 24:30). As he ascended (Ac 1:9, 11). With a shout and the voice of the archangel (1Th 4:16). Accompanied by angels (Mt 16:27; 25:31; Mk 8:38; 2Th 1:7). With his saints (1Th 3:13; Jude 14). Suddenly (Mk 13:36). Unexpectedly (Mt 24:44; Lk 12:40). As a thief in the night (1Th 5:2; 2Pe 3:10; Rev 16:15). As the lightning (Mt 24:27). The heavens and earth shall be dissolved (2Pe 3:10, 12). They who shall have died in Christ shall rise first at (1Th 4:16). The saints alive at, shall be caught up to meet him (1Th 4:17). Is not to make atonement (Heb 9:28, w Ro 6:9-10; Heb 10:14).

The Purposes of: To complete the salvation of saints (Heb 9:28; 1Pe 1:5). Be glorified in his saints (2Th 1:10). Be marveled at among those who believe (2Th 1:10). Bring to light the hidden things of darkness (1Co 4:5). Judge (Ps 50:3-4, w Jn 5:22; 2Ti 4:1; Jude 15; Rev 20:11-13). Reign (Isa 24:23; Da 7:14; Rev 11:15). Destroy death (1Co 15:25-26). Every eye shall see him at (Rev 1:7). Should be always considered as at hand (Ro 13:12; Php 4:5; 1Pe 4:7). Blessedness of being prepared for (Mt 24:46; Lk 12:37-38).

The Saints: Assured of (Job 19:25-26). Love (2Ti 4:8). Look for (Php 3:20; *** 2:13). Wait for (1Co 1:7; 1Th 1:10). Speed its coming (2Pe 3:12). Pray for (Rev 22:20). Should be ready for (Mt 24:44; Lk 12:40). Should watch for (Mt 24:42; Mk 13:35-37; Lk 21:36). Should be patient unto (2Th 3:5; Jas 5:7-8). Shall be preserved unto (Php 1:6; 2Ti 4:18; 1Pe 1:5; Jude 24). Shall not be ashamed at (1Jn 2:28; 1Jn 4:17). Shall be blameless at (1Co 1:8; 1Th 3:13; 5:23; Jude 24). Shall be like him at (Php 3:21; 1Jn 3:2). Shall see him as he is (1Jn 3:2). Shall appear with him in glory at (Col 3:4). Shall receive a crown of glory at (2Ti 4:8; 1Pe 5:4). Shall reign with him at (Da 7:27; 2Ti 2:12; Rev 5:10; 20:6; 22:5). Faith of, will be praised at (1Pe 1:7).

The Wicked: Scoff at (2Pe 3:3-4). Presume upon the delay of (Mt 24:48). Shall be surprised by (Mt 24:37-39; 1Th 5:3; 2Pe 3:10). Shall be punished at (2Th 1:8-9). The man of sin to be destroyed at (2Th 2:8). Illustrated (Mt 25:6; Lk 12:36, 39; 19:12, 15).

You should not however base your theology on the Movie "Left Behind" ....Great movie...Has losts of Biblical Truth in it...But it still has mistakes and holes. The best thing is check it out fer yourself.

Peace In Chirst

Scott

ps if there are any *** in the posts that I missed they are supposed to be Titus (not the abvr)

 

[HomeBound]

so orthodoxyusa are you saying that the Book of Revelations shouldn't be taken as part of God's word?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Not at all....
Just that it's being interpreted outside the "Holy Tradition" of the Church...
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Bible-and-Church-History/Interpretation.html

All Christians up until the 1830’s believed in basically the same things about the second coming of Christ. During the 1830’s Margaret Macdonald, a Scottish member of a sect known as the Irvingites, made the first claim that there would be a trance (or rapture) and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. The Protestant leader John Nelson Darby picked up this view. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield picked up Darby’s views and placed them in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible. This Bible was widely used in England and America and many who read it readily accepted the idea of rapture.

Since that time other views on rapture have started, but all are still based on the notion of the rapture itself.

 

[HomeBound]

oh...
I guess I missread this part

"Revelation is the only New Testament book that the Orthodox Church doesn’t read in any of its worship. Saint Peter also warns us that no prophecy is to be of private interpretation, yet many insist of reading into the book of Revelation."

 

[Serapha]

Not at all....
Just that it's being interpreted outside the "Holy Tradition" of the Church...
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Bible-and-Church-History/Interpretation.html

All Christians up until the 1830’s believed in basically the same things about the second coming of Christ. During the 1830’s Margaret Macdonald, a Scottish member of a sect known as the Irvingites, made the first claim that there would be a trance (or rapture) and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. The Protestant leader John Nelson Darby picked up this view. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield picked up Darby’s views and placed them in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible. This Bible was widely used in England and America and many who read it readily accepted the idea of rapture.

Since that time other views on rapture have started, but all are still based on the notion of the rapture itself.

Hi there!



That's interesting... but how do you explain this....


The doctrines concerning the Rapture were squelched by the Gnostics and the rule of the Roman Catholic Church as being heretic. There were no Bibles available to the masses until the printing press made copies available to the public. Trinity College of Dublin Ireland was a frontrunner in the studies of premillenialism, and there was recurring of premillenial thought after the reformation.



Martin Luther writes, "I believe that all the signs which are to precede the last days have already appeared. Let us not think that the coming of Christ is far off; let us look up with heads lifted up; let us expect our Redeemer's coming with longing and cheerful mind."


Just as the early church thought that the return of Christ was imminent, so did Luther. A belief that the return of Christ was imminent is reflective of a "Rapture" return prior to the tribulations as Martin Luther was aware that the tribulations were not over when he wrote stating to look for the return of our Redeemer. The early church questioned if the persecutions that they were enduring were of the tribulations, and Paul told them to look for the return of Christ at any time. Paul obviously believed in a "rapturing" of the church and imminent return of Christ for his Bride.


Paul identifies this in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, when Paul shows that the day of the Lord could not take place until there was a departure 1) from earth, or 2) of the saints. In Verse 7 of the same chapter the lawless system could not be in effect until the restrainer is taken away. The Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth with the rapture. The Holy Spirit is the only restrainer holding back the evil of this world (satan).



Premillenialism and Rapture doctrine was again developed through the 18th and 19th centuries. Reverend Morgan Edwards published a book, "Milleneum, Last Days Noveltus", in 1788 which described the tribulation. He claimed to have preached the rapture from 1742 and was probably influenced by John Gill's teachings.



~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

Where in the bible does it mention the rapture???

Hi there!




The "rapture" is derived from the sparing of the believers from the tribulations which is the pouring out of the wrath of God.

for example,

Revelation 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

~serapha~

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Orthodox do not change thier views... we maintain the original view from the 1st Century.
We do not seek to explain every detail in a legalistic fashion.
We follow the "Holy Tradition" as handed down, not the text of the Bible.
The text was "authored by" the member of the early Church (Orthodox), we maintain their position on what they wrote.
To look at everything "solo scripturu" (the text of the Bible only) weakens the overall Christian experience.
The text of the Bible is only about 20% of the "Holy Tradition" of the Church.
I am not belittling the Bible, but without the rest of Tradition we have thrown out the baby with the bath water.

For further info on the Traditions of the Church....
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/index.htm

Forgive me....

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

oh...
I guess I missread this part

"Revelation is the only New Testament book that the Orthodox Church doesn’t read in any of its worship. Saint Peter also warns us that no prophecy is to be of private interpretation, yet many insist of reading into the book of Revelation."

It is true that Revelations is not read during Devine Liturgy. But that does not mean that we leave it out... It is a very important book of mystery. Ss. John and Prochorus (scribe) are both members of the Orthodox Church.

Forgive me....

 

[TheMainException]

wow...I never knew that there were so many verses relating to rapture.

 

[God_of_Mercy]

interesting, thanks everyone for posting, im still not quite sure if ur suppose to believe it or not.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Not at all....
Just that it's being interpreted outside the "Holy Tradition" of the Church...
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Bible-and-Church-History/Interpretation.html

All Christians up until the 1830’s believed in basically the same things about the second coming of Christ. During the 1830’s Margaret Macdonald, a Scottish member of a sect known as the Irvingites, made the first claim that there would be a trance (or rapture) and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. The Protestant leader John Nelson Darby picked up this view. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield picked up Darby’s views and placed them in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible. This Bible was widely used in England and America and many who read it readily accepted the idea of rapture.

Since that time other views on rapture have started, but all are still based on the notion of the rapture itself.

It's the old Margaret Macdonald line.....

Margaret Macdonald did not make any claim...and certainly NOT of a pretrib rapture. She had a vision and part of the vision includes this:

I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that it it were possible the very elect will be deceived. This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. ....
I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - for it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counterpart for every part of God's truth, and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. ...The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept.

This isn't pretrib rapture. She was a historicist.
MM did refer to I Thes. here:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. 'Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - 'tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I saw that we must be in the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the Spirit, when he saw a throne set in Heaven. But I saw that the glory of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and the fullness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick all of gold.[/font]

But she is quoting I thes. 4 in this part....but she is understanding it as a spiritual event with the Second Coming, not physical.

 

[Curt]

Do not be deceived by all this worldly knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. Jesus tells you all about the great tribulation in the gospels, and He knows more about it than anyone has ever known or ever will know, and there is not a word spoken by Him of the church leaving before the greatest tribulation that has ever been or ever will be.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Amen