Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[Straightshot]

"you won't have to face the ultimate time of testing at the hands of antichrist"


Learn this truth and stick to it .... if a man is a true follower of the Lord today and alive at the time when His judgment begins there will be no "ultimate time of testing" for this man

It is those who will enter the period in unbelief that will be subjected .... where do you stand?

Can a true follower of the Lord then reject .... would you?

It is those who after knowing the truth reject that are at risk

 

[DingDing]

"you won't have to face the ultimate time of testing at the hands of antichrist"


Learn this truth and stick to it .... if a man is a true follower of the Lord today and alive at the time when His judgment begins there will be no "ultimate time of testing" for this man
...

The wording of your post is a bit hard to follow, but I believe you illustrate my point exactly where I said, "...the seriousness of all this is totally missed." Those stuck in either (or both) the OSAS camp or the Pre-trib camp are unable to comprehend the true seriousness of what the bible says about the "rapture" and other things associated with it.

 

[Straightshot]

..... easy to follow .... and your point of my inability to comprehend is a ruse

 

[DingDing]

..... easy to follow .... and your point of my inability to comprehend is a ruse

Not a ruse... You illustrate my point exactly. Because of your doctrinal "biases", if you will, you can't appreciate the true seriousness of the rapture and events around it. Blinders are in place which prevent you (and much of the church) from seeing the true seriousness of these things.

 

[Straightshot]

Now you are talking in circles

You had better believe that the Lord's call is the next event on His schedule

When I see a person going around and responding with telling others that they have a lack of comprehension right off of the bat without cause and with little knowledge of the other's views, I see a sign of the devil's meddling with the accuser's mind

 

[DingDing]

...

You had better believe that the Lord's call is the next event on His schedule

...

This is a blinder (if by the "Lord's call" you mean rapture). This is why you don't understand what I am saying. My words go right past you. You need to consider the very real possibility that this notion (the immanent return of Christ) is a blinder to the real truth.

 

[DingDing]

...
The only ones on earth who will be protected from the tribulation are the 144,000 who will be sealed.
...

Let's think about this. The Great Tribulation is the period of time during which the persecution by antichrist takes place - which starts at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. The 144,000 are not sealed (marked for protection) until after the breaking of the 6th seal. The 5th seal addresses the martyred saints. What the 144,000 are being protected from is not the tribulation - that has already happened. What they are being protected from is the Day of the LORD judgments which are about to commence (after the breaking of the 7th seal).

 

[farout]

This thread is to discuss what is important. does it truly matter when the rapture happens? Or does it matter more what we do until then seeing as how the bible states that we will never know the time, day, month, or year?

THIS IS ONLY FOR DEBATE NOT CONVERTING.

If it gets to wild and people start hating on others beliefs then I will ask that he thread be taken down.

The object is to have a good healthy discussion with the KINGDOM and not single denominations.

I like to style myself as the Pentecostal Lutheran, I was raised Lutheran but now attend and am a leader at a Church of God (TN) church

It is important to be able to share what you think about the end times. Who respects a persons answer, who says "it don't matter to me, when it happens, it happens". ? The Bible says to be ready to give an answer for the hope in us. There are plenty of Christians that don't care enough to study to seek what the end times even means. The very least a person can do is but a good book that gives the four views. A excellent book on this is THE MEANING OF THE MILLENNIUM, FOUR VIEWS edited by Robert G. Clouse. Intervarsity Press. This is a great book that does and great job of explaining the four views. For those who want to really did deeper there is the book, REVELATION. FOUR VIEWS a parallel Commentary edited by Steve Gregg. Thomas Nelson Publishers.

I think it is very important to have a Biblical understanding of the basic understanding of the four views. I have been able to correct misunderstandings of some people. The Bible leaves open some latitude on some issues, and each view generally seems to be liked by some liberal believers, and other views by more conservative believers. But when a person says they are a Roman Catholic I know where they think, where if someone says they are a Baptist they can have perhaps as many as three different views. I have read extensively of the four views, and I have come to understand my Biblical belief is to be a HISTORIC PREMILLENNIALISTS. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus says "immediately after the tribulation.." then in verse 30 Jesus says " Then the Son of man will appear....." This is my view. But we as Christians need to study the Bible, and we have excellent resources to aid in helping us more fully understand things, not necessarily when Jesus will return, but what the order of events seem to be indicated in Scripture. I may not be correct in my understanding, but at least I understand the possibilities.

When Jesus returns no matter what I think he will return according to the Fathers will and pre-knowledge. But Scripture has given us enough information to understand the events that indicate His soon return. The ant-iChrist has not done the miraculous signs yet, to deceive the elect, when we see this Jesus is very soon to come. I know it is not yet, but soon. I am told by Jesus to be ready. Are you?

 

[farout]

Let's think about this. The Great Tribulation is the period of time during which the persecution by antichrist takes place - which starts at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. The 144,000 are not sealed (marked for protection) until after the breaking of the 6th seal. The 5th seal addresses the martyred saints. What the 144,000 are being protected from is not the tribulation - that has already happened. What they are being protected from is the Day of the LORD judgments which are about to commence (after the breaking of the 7th seal).

When and where do you think these things you mentioned, have happened? I just want dialogue, not argument ok? Thanks.

 

[farout]

My comment


It does matter and here is why

The related scriptures all taken together gives the Lord's intent to call His own of the dead in Christ and those living at the time to immortality .... the believer's greatest hope and reward

It is in His character to keep those living just before the onset of His judgment against an unbelieving world from His wrath that will be meted out upon the earth

This is the number one argument of those who teach this and those who teach against it presented today

If unbelievers observe this behavior among those who claim to be Christians the chances of any turning to the Lord will be slim and next to none .... this argument alone will keep millions from ever considering their need for His salvation

Unfortunately the argument will continue to rage up until the day comes with no warning or related signs

A narrow gate indeed, just as He has stated .... few will find and choose

Just as a side note, our opinion may express what we think or fell and we might be right. But when coupled with Scripture that packs wonderful power. By having scripture this makes our point stand more solid on a foundation which others can then be challenged to read for themselves. What do you think?

 

[farout]

It matters when we believe it to happen, because it matters that we understand God's plan as it helps us to understand God himself.

But unless we include Scripture to back what we say it has little to validate what we say.

 

[farout]

But shouldn't we be more concerned with getting people to Christ?

Unless we are equipped with the WORD and can give it as proof. its just our word which means very little. The bible says the WORD can cut to the soul of men and women. That is more powerful than anything.

 

[farout]

"But shouldn't we be more concerned with getting people to Christ?"


Without this vital step first, one can forget about the rest of the story

This endeavor is very difficult to do in today's world .... most people are ignorant, uneducated, and careless with their lives .... like it was in the days of Noah

So the Christian witness is not the most popular theme to talk about today

And effective preaching and teaching of His Word is scant ..... many productions, but few with the truth

The Lord has said that this would come and it is here .... big time

It is imperative for the Christian preacher/teacher to tell people what they need to know about their fate and not to just tell them what they want to hear

The first is not just a "feel good" presentation and the second one is disturbingly lacking

If preachers just talk like Joel Osteen, everyone feels wonderful, but felling wonderful and going to hell is s terrible sermon.

 

[John Davidson]

I like to style myself as the Pentecostal Lutheran, I was raised Lutheran but now attend and am a leader at a Church of God (TN) church

If you truly are Lutheran then you would know that Lutheran theology states that the rapture occurs on the last day when Christ returns.

 

[DingDing]

When and where do you think these things you mentioned, have happened? I just want dialogue, not argument ok? Thanks.

For the most part, these things have not happened yet, but will, and perhaps very soon and suddenly. The seals in Revelation are broken in order, but the effects are likely overlapping and not immediate. Read Revelation 6 & 7 thoughtfully, and compare it with Matthew 24 and 1st and 2nd Thessalonians. There is a general ordering of events which is consistent. We can discuss in length, but the 5th seal emphasizes the martyring of the saints. The 6th seal is the sign of the LORD's immanent return. That is when the world realizes its time is up. The next two things that happen are the sealing of the 144,000, and the sudden appearance of a great multitude in heaven (rapture). Then the 7th seal is broken which initiates the Day of the LORD judgment upon the earth. The 144,000 are sealed (protected) because they are left behind when the rapture happens. As Jesus says in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation begins with the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week (see Matt. 24:15-26). (As a note, Matt. 5-14 are a general overview of when the end will come; but beginning at verse 15 Jesus steps back into this overview to provide more detail.) Now if you read verses 27-31, it describes the sign of His coming which all shall see (sun, moon, and stars - compare to description of breaking of 6th seal), then in verse 31 it describes the rapture (compare to great multitude appearing after breaking of 6th seal). Paul, in 2nd Thess., likewise mentions that the Day of the LORD (when He comes for us) will not happen until after the revealing of the son of perdition and the falling away which will ensue. This all fits very nicely together, if one is willing to see it. The problem is, most are unwilling to look because it is too scary. They want the promise of an easy escape and eternal security. They don't want to be told that things could get really hard and that they might have to make a really hard choice - like between physical life or eternal life - this is why it is called the Great Tribulation. It will be a time of untold suffering and persecution, but most churches refuse to teach this - or they make it out that we will all get sucked outta here before all this poop hits the fan.

 

[farout]

For the most part, these things have not happened yet, but will, and perhaps very soon and suddenly. The seals in Revelation are broken in order, but the effects are likely overlapping and not immediate. Read Revelation 6 & 7 thoughtfully, and compare it with Matthew 24 and 1st and 2nd Thessalonians. There is a general ordering of events which is consistent. We can discuss in length, but the 5th seal emphasizes the martyring of the saints. The 6th seal is the sign of the LORD's immanent return. That is when the world realizes its time is up. The next two things that happen are the sealing of the 144,000, and the sudden appearance of a great multitude in heaven (rapture). Then the 7th seal is broken which initiates the Day of the LORD judgment upon the earth. The 144,000 are sealed (protected) because they are left behind when the rapture happens. As Jesus says in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation begins with the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week (see Matt. 24:15-26). (As a note, Matt. 5-14 are a general overview of when the end will come; but beginning at verse 15 Jesus steps back into this overview to provide more detail.) Now if you read verses 27-31, it describes the sign of His coming which all shall see (sun, moon, and stars - compare to description of breaking of 6th seal), then in verse 31 it describes the rapture (compare to great multitude appearing after breaking of 6th seal). Paul, in 2nd Thess., likewise mentions that the Day of the LORD (when He comes for us) will not happen until after the revealing of the son of perdition and the falling away which will ensue. This all fits very nicely together, if one is willing to see it. The problem is, most are unwilling to look because it is too scary. They want the promise of an easy escape and eternal security. They don't want to be told that things could get really hard and that they might have to make a really hard choice - like between physical life or eternal life - this is why it is called the Great Tribulation. It will be a time of untold suffering and persecution, but most churches refuse to teach this - or they make it out that we will all get sucked outta here before all this poop hits the fan.

What you are stating is Dispensational Premillennialism, and can be one of the four ways to understand the end of times. As Christians we are to respect and love each above everything else. I personally believe a Historic Premillennialism position fits better, but again that is how I see it, God is in control, we shall see. Gods day to you brother.

 

[DingDing]

What you are stating is Dispensational Premillennialism, and can be one of the four ways to understand the end of times. As Christians we are to respect and love each above everything else. I personally believe a Historic Premillennialism position fits better, but again that is how I see it, God is in control, we shall see. Gods day to you brother.

So what are the 4 ways? And why do you think Historic Premillennialism position fits better? (What are you fitting?)

 

[Straightshot]

Why not just state your position which you are shrouding for some reason?

Then those on the forum can evaluate and respond

What you have conveyed so far is not clear

 

[Douggg]

It matters when we believe it to happen, because it matters that we understand God's plan as it helps us to understand God himself.

That's a good point.

 

[Psalm3704]

Those stuck in either (or both) the OSAS camp or the Pre-trib camp are unable to comprehend the true seriousness of what the bible says about the "rapture" and other things associated with it.

Blinders are in place which prevent you (and much of the church) from seeing the true seriousness of these things.

You mentioned the seriousness of the rapture a couple of times. I also noticed you have a post tribulation view on the timing of the rapture. Please share with us your understanding of the true seriousness what the bible said about the rapture.









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