Rapture vs. Second Coming

[Christ777]

The 2nd coming of the Lord was to save Israel during the Tribulation.

You believe that us in the Body of Christ will also undergo that same Tribulation?

This is also NOT written. Christ second coming will be AFTER the Great Tribulation, not during the GT. Read it your self:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 that we will be caught up in clouds to MEET the Lord *(not to go to Heaven with the Lord) at His coming, AFTER the Great Tribulation. which logically means that we shall go through it but come out victorious IF we keep God's word, which is the Truth. Rev 3:10.

This is the written truth. Read only what is written and you'll never go wrong.

 

[Guojing]

This is also NOT written. Christ second coming will be AFTER the Great Tribulation, not during the GT. Read it your self:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 that we will be caught up in clouds to MEET the Lord *(not to go to Heaven with the Lord) at His coming, AFTER the Great Tribulation. which logically means that we shall go through it but come out victorious IF we keep God's word, which is the Truth. Rev 3:10.

This is the written truth. Read only what is written and you'll never go wrong.

What I meant was at the end of the Tribulation

But if you want to split hair like that, okay its after the Tribulation.

So your answer is a yes.

 

[mlepfitjw]

what have learned so far?

 

[Christ777]

What I meant was at the end of the Tribulation

But if you want to split hair like that, okay its after the Tribulation.

So your answer is a yes.

It is not "my" answer. It is what is written. At the coming of the Lord, we that survive the Great Tribulation and remain alive, will be caught up in clouds to MEET the Lord 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and His coming will be after the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29.

Remember. Read ONLY what is written and you'll never go astray. This is how Christ defeated Satan's temptation in Matthew 4.

 

[Bro.T]

The 2nd coming of the Lord was to save Israel during the Tribulation.

You believe that us in the Body of Christ will also undergo that same Tribulation?

Jesus says Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice, Jesus is coming after the tribulation not before or during. People have to save themselves and some saints will die during the tribulation period. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (Daniel 7:21).

But here's some good news in Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Bro.T]

Well I take the words of Jesus to the apostles and Paul:

John 14
King James Version

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The Fathers house is in heaven. Jesus is preparing places for us in heaven. When those places are ready, He will come to take us where He is---heaven.

REv. 19 shows this as well:

Revelation 19
King James Version

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


The bride (the church) is in heaven for eh wedding! Before Jesus returns. the church cannot be on earth as that means not all church members have had their works judged and the wood, hay and stubble burned off! And this scene in heaven is before the Lord leaves heaven to make His 2nd coming to earth!

So when Paul speaks of teh church being caught up (snatched off) to meet the Lord in the air- this is the rapture and not the 2nd coming which requires Jesus to return to earth and He does not return here. to make this part of teh 2nd coming is to join varied verses together without any warrant and a useless exercise by God!

Why would the Lord if He is now coming to earth, rapture the church into the atmosphere when He shall land back on earth is mere moments?

Well I take the words of Jesus to the apostles and Paul:

John 14
King James Version

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The Fathers house is in heaven. Jesus is preparing places for us in heaven. When those places are ready, He will come to take us where He is---heaven.

REv. 19 shows this as well:

That's not the Heaven Jesus is talking about. He's talking about the first heaven which is on the earth. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6).

When Jesus makes his second coming he will be on earth for thousands years, with the saint and those who came out of the great tribulation. Revelation 19 says nothing about people going to heaven. Those are just praise in the beginning and the more you read it goes into the war.

The bible speaks of three heavens….It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:1-2), so which one would the saints go to anyway? Jesus was talking about the third heaven when he said, "...no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven..." This means Elijah or no other man (except Jesus) has went up to the heaven where the Father's throne is at. Many of us, including Elijah, have been transported through the second heaven, which is the sky. This heaven is called the firmament, where airplanes and birds fly. The first heaven is the earth. This is where Jesus will establish his heavenly kingdom.

Pay attention to the prayer and what Jesus says in Matthew 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus been on earth for a thousand years preparing the earth for the Father. Let's go into Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Jesus prepare all this for thousands years with his saints. Notice God (Father) is coming down, to dwell with them. This is earth still. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Now we see the lamb and God (Father) together.

 

[nolidad]

That's not the Heaven Jesus is talking about. He's talking about the first heaven which is on the earth. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6).

When Jesus makes his second coming he will be on earth for thousands years, with the saint and those who came out of the great tribulation. Revelation 19 says nothing about people going to heaven. Those are just praise in the beginning and the more you read it goes into the war.

The bible speaks of three heavens….It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:1-2), so which one would the saints go to anyway? Jesus was talking about the third heaven when he said, "...no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven..." This means Elijah or no other man (except Jesus) has went up to the heaven where the Father's throne is at. Many of us, including Elijah, have been transported through the second heaven, which is the sky. This heaven is called the firmament, where airplanes and birds fly. The first heaven is the earth. This is where Jesus will establish his heavenly kingdom.

Pay attention to the prayer and what Jesus says in Matthew 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus been on earth for a thousand years preparing the earth for the Father. Let's go into Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Jesus prepare all this for thousands years with his saints. Notice God (Father) is coming down, to dwell with them. This is earth still. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Now we see the lamb and God (Father) together.

As you linked it John 14, I am assuming you believe that God teh Father is alive and well in our atmosphere then? And that teh thrones are going to levitate in the first heaven which is our atmosphere? First time I heard this one and I have heard lots of varied interpretations of this.

Up to the time only two were tekne. Sorry but Elijah and Enoch went to heaven as well as Abraham, for on the Mount of Transfiguration the apostles saw Mosed and Elijah glorified! They are not buzzing around the atmosphere !

And Paul told us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord both are aorist which focuses on the simple action. So to be absent from the body (death ) is to be present with the Lord. Jesus is now in the the third heaven preparing a place for us His bride!

The church and another host of humans glorified are also seen in REv. 19 in heaven prior to Jesus return.

that makes it simple! When a member of the body of Christ dies- He goes right away to be in heaven withthe Lord.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Not true , read Church Fathers

Didache

Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson).

Galaxie Software | Electronic Publishing
Dispensationalism in Church History.
Theology Adrift: The Early Church Fathers and Their Views of Eschatology | Bible.org

 

[Guojing]

It is not "my" answer. It is what is written. At the coming of the Lord, we that survive the Great Tribulation and remain alive, will be caught up in clouds to MEET the Lord 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and His coming will be after the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29.

Remember. Read ONLY what is written and you'll never go astray. This is how Christ defeated Satan's temptation in Matthew 4.

It is always tempting to regard what we believe in, is also what is "clearly written" in scripture.

No one reads scripture in a vacuum.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus says Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice, Jesus is coming after the tribulation not before or during. People have to save themselves and some saints will die during the tribulation period. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (Daniel 7:21).

But here's some good news in Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Do you remember what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Do you remember what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24?

No

 

[Bro.T]

Do you remember what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24?

Yes, at that time Jesus needed to get his priest back in order. In the scriptures its written in Jeremiah (50:6) My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place.

(7) All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers. So much was going on at that time. Israel was against each other, nine of the tribes was already in captivity, and Jesus tells us that all written of Him must be fulfilled. (Luke 24:44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

But Jesus also says in John (10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. (15) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The prophet Isaiah told of how Jesus was to restore Israel and become a light unto the Gentiles. Isaiah (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

[Bro.T]

As you linked it John 14, I am assuming you believe that God teh Father is alive and well in our atmosphere then? And that teh thrones are going to levitate in the first heaven which is our atmosphere? First time I heard this one and I have heard lots of varied interpretations of this.

Up to the time only two were tekne. Sorry but Elijah and Enoch went to heaven as well as Abraham, for on the Mount of Transfiguration the apostles saw Mosed and Elijah glorified! They are not buzzing around the atmosphere !

And Paul told us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord both are aorist which focuses on the simple action. So to be absent from the body (death ) is to be present with the Lord. Jesus is now in the the third heaven preparing a place for us His bride!

The church and another host of humans glorified are also seen in REv. 19 in heaven prior to Jesus return.

that makes it simple! When a member of the body of Christ dies- He goes right away to be in heaven withthe Lord.

I haven't interpret anything it's all written in the Bible clean. Did you know that there are three heavens God created. First heaven is the Earth, Second heaven is where the firmaments , Sun, Moon, Stars, Clouds, even Space. The Third heaven is above all that, is where our Father, Jesus and the angels are.

Now let's breakdown some of these heavens and get some understanding.
Let's take a look Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. This verse clear states that the earth also is one of those three heaven.

Let's take a look Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. This verse clear states that the earth also is one of those three heaven.

Deuteronomy 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: First heaven the earth.

Lets stay in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. So, now we see that when we look up at the sun, moon and stars, that the second heaven. All nation under the whole heaven is talking about earth, because we know nations refers to people.

Let's take a look at the Third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. This is Paul referring to Jesus, being caught up to the third heaven.

Now Jesus says in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Now we just read where this heaven is, this is the third heaven. No man one went up there, how absolute is no man. None of this have to be interpreted.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, at that time Jesus needed to get his priest back in order. In the scriptures its written in Jeremiah (50:6) My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place.

(7) All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers. So much was going on at that time. Israel was against each other, nine of the tribes was already in captivity, and Jesus tells us that all written of Him must be fulfilled. (Luke 24:44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

But Jesus also says in John (10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. (15) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The prophet Isaiah told of how Jesus was to restore Israel and become a light unto the Gentiles. Isaiah (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Yes, so when you read the book of Matthew, always recognize that Jesus was only sent to Israel during that time.

So whatever he is saying, don't just apply it to the Body of Christ without further thinking.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

what have learned so far?

Probably should have been posted in the eschatology forum.

 

[Davy]

Yes, so when you read the book of Matthew, always recognize that Jesus was only sent to Israel during that time.

So whatever he is saying, don't just apply it to the Body of Christ without further thinking.

Jesus' 1st coming was not just about being sent to the Jews in Jerusalem. To Jerusalem the offer went first, but they rejected Him and had Him crucified. Where then did The Gospel go to and whom, and who believed it on national scales? Not to Asia just yet in the Apostle's days, because Paul wanted to go to Asia (east Asia, not Asia-Minor) but The Holy Spirit prevented him.

The Gospel was next accepted by the western Christian nations of history, and then The Gospel went out to the rest of the nations from them. Britain was the first nation on a national scale to accept The Gospel of Jesus Christ and put away their pagan idols. The rest of the European nations followed suit on national scales, including much of Asia-Minor.

Just so happens, to Asia-Minor and Europe is where migrations of the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" wound up, including a large number of the Jews of the "house of Judah" that left the Babylon captivity.

Thus like Jesus said, He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, pointing to the ten scattered tribes of Israel mainly, since those only were known as the "house of Israel" after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11 thru 2 Kings 17.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus' 1st coming was not just about being sent to the Jews in Jerusalem. To Jerusalem the offer went first, but they rejected Him and had Him crucified. Where then did The Gospel go to and whom, and who believed it on national scales? Not to Asia just yet in the Apostle's days, because Paul wanted to go to Asia (east Asia, not Asia-Minor) but The Holy Spirit prevented him.

The Gospel was next accepted by the western Christian nations of history, and then The Gospel went out to the rest of the nations from them. Britain was the first nation on a national scale to accept The Gospel of Jesus Christ and put away their pagan idols. The rest of the European nations followed suit on national scales, including much of Asia-Minor.

Just so happens, to Asia-Minor and Europe is where migrations of the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" wound up, including a large number of the Jews of the "house of Judah" that left the Babylon captivity.

Thus like Jesus said, He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, pointing to the ten scattered tribes of Israel mainly, since those only were known as the "house of Israel" after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11 thru 2 Kings 17.

Of course, I was referring to the period of time in the 4 gospels. So as Matthew 15:24, he was only sent to Israel then.

Our time only came after Paul was raised by Christ to reach to us.

 

[Davy]

Of course, I was referring to the period of time in the 4 gospels. So as Matthew 15:24, he was only sent to Israel then.

Our time only came after Paul was raised by Christ to reach to us.

I still don't think you understand.

By the time of Lord Jesus' 1st coming, the ten tribes of the northern kingdom had already been scattered about 120 years. It was them that was known as the "house of Israel" after 1 Kings 11 & 12. Only the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" (or "house of Judah") were left in the land when Jesus came.

So basically, when Jesus said Matthew 15:24, He wasn't talking about the Jews.

Per 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17:
1. "house of Judah", "kingdom of Judah", "Judah", "Jerusalem" = tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi and small remnants of the ten northern tribes that refused Jeroboam's calf idols in the north.

2. "house of Israel", "kingdom of Israel", "Israel", "Samaria", "Joseph", "Ephraim" = tribes of Ephraim (as head), Manasseh, Gad, Naphtali, Asher, Zebulun, Simeon, Dan, Reuben, Issachar).

 

[Guojing]

I still don't think you understand.

By the time of Lord Jesus' 1st coming, the ten tribes of the northern kingdom had already been scattered about 120 years. It was them that was known as the "house of Israel" after 1 Kings 11 & 12. Only the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" (or "house of Judah") were left in the land when Jesus came.

So basically, when Jesus said Matthew 15:24, He wasn't talking about the Jews.

Per 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17:
1. "house of Judah", "kingdom of Judah", "Judah", "Jerusalem" = tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi and small remnants of the ten northern tribes that refused Jeroboam's calf idols in the north.

2. "house of Israel", "kingdom of Israel", "Israel", "Samaria", "Joseph", "Ephraim" = tribes of Ephraim (as head), Manasseh, Gad, Naphtali, Asher, Zebulun, Simeon, Dan, Reuben, Issachar).

I take what Christ said in Matthew 15:24 literally, but if you don't wish to, that is up to you.

 

[Randy777]

What about verses like Revelation 3:10 which state God will keep us from the hour of testing? What about Luke 21:36 which states that we should "pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass"

I believe a similar promise was made to King Josiah. How was it fulfilled?