RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

[iamlamad]

You are free to believe Donald Duck is the Messiah---won't change the facts. The 2nd coming of Jesus Christ will happen and the dead in Christ will rise first and then the living will rise up to meet them and Christ in the air.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

NOW, YOU CAN MESS AROUND WITH THIS ALL YOU WANT---IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL BE RAISED BY JESUS HIMSELF WITH A SHOUT AND THEN THE LIVING WILL GO UP TO MEET THEM. So far, that just plain has not happened.

I totally believe in the word of God---all of it---not just what I want to believe or what some pastor, or anyone else, has told me to believe. Either in Greek, Spanish or whatever language you want, Jesus comes again, the dead in Christ will be resurrected and then the living saints will all go up to the air---that starts the 1000 years. Believe whatever you want.

So you DO believe in the rapture.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you DO believe in the rapture.

Not as most people do. I do not believe anyone---except all the wicked dead are left behind. The earth is destroyed and empty and this empty earth is where Satan and his angels are bound to for the 1000 years. The saved are with Jesus in heaven. Then the resurrection of the wicked and they attempt to take the descending city and are handed out their judgment. I know Rev. is not in chronological order.

 

[iamlamad]

Not as most people do. I do not believe anyone---except all the wicked dead are left behind. The earth is destroyed and empty and this empty earth is where Satan and his angels are bound to for the 1000 years. The saved are with Jesus in heaven. Then the resurrection of the wicked and they attempt to take the descending city and are handed out their judgment. I know Rev. is not in chronological order.

You are missing Paul's TIMING for this event. Study 1 Thes. 5. He tells us the rapture will come a moment before God's wrath begins. We find that at the 6th seal of Revelation. Just so you know, there will be 7 years after the 6th seal before Jesus returns to Armageddon. You cannot pull the rapture verse out of its context.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are missing Paul's TIMING for this event. Study 1 Thes. 5. He tells us the rapture will come a moment before God's wrath begins. We find that at the 6th seal of Revelation. Just so you know, there will be 7 years after the 6th seal before Jesus returns to Armageddon. You cannot pull the rapture verse out of its context.

You can not take 7 years out of the 1000 years in heaven. The earth is left destroyed and empty after His 2nd coming. The tribulation will be before He comes back---we go through the tribulation, not taken from it. Just as the Jews were kept from the plagues, the blood of Jesus will be our blood over the lintels.

 

[ewq1938]

Not as most people do. I do not believe anyone---except all the wicked dead are left behind. The earth is destroyed and empty and this empty earth is where Satan and his angels are bound to for the 1000 years.

Satan is placed inside of a pit that is in the Earth. People also inhabit the Earth since after Satan is released from the pit, he goes out to find people to deceive them so the Earth is not empty.

Also, there is no evidence Christ leaves the Earth once he returns to it at the second coming which also means there was no mass exodus of people from the Earth to heaven. Christ brings all the heavenly saints and angels to the Earth when he returns so the Earth is very populated. It is heaven that is de-populated.

 

[mmksparbud]

Satan is placed inside of a pit that is in the Earth. People also inhabit the Earth since after Satan is released from the pit, he goes out to find people to deceive them so the Earth is not empty.

Also, there is no evidence Christ leaves the Earth once he returns to it at the second coming which also means there was no mass exodus of people from the Earth to heaven. Christ brings all the heavenly saints and angels to the Earth when he returns so the Earth is very populated. It is heaven that is de-populated.

The earth is empty and destroyed. There is no hole in the ground, it is an empty earth that Satan is bound to. The resurrection of the wicked comes after the 1000 years.

Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
After the first resurrection, which is the 2nd coming of Jesus, the saved are taken to heaven, the earth is destroyed and empty.
Jesus does not set foot on this earth until after the 1000 years, the wicked are destroyed at the 2nd death, and the earth is made new.

 

[ewq1938]

The earth is empty and destroyed.

Neither is correct. Christ, the resurrected saints, and raptured saints, and angels and all the peoples in the world when Satan is released from the pit all are on the Earth for the 1000 years.

There is no hole in the ground, it is an empty earth that Satan is bound to.

Scripture disagrees:

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Not only are these peoples already living on the Earth proving the Earth is not empty as you claim, but Satan cannot go to them until released from prison also proving Satan is not simply on the Earth for 1000 years but is indeed in a pit of some type in the Earth which prevents him from traveling around the Earth.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The deceived peoples also surround the camp of the saints further proving the Earth was not empty for the thousand years.

 

[mmksparbud]

Neither is correct. Christ, the resurrected saints, and raptured saints, and angels and all the peoples in the world when Satan is released from the pit all are on the Earth for the 1000 years.







Scripture disagrees:

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Not only are these peoples already living on the Earth proving the Earth is not empty as you claim, but Satan cannot go to them until released from prison also proving Satan is not simply on the Earth for 1000 years but is indeed in a pit of some type in the Earth which prevents him from traveling around the Earth.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The deceived peoples also surround the camp of the saints further proving the Earth was not empty for the thousand years.

None of those verses say that all these people are on earth during the 1000 years.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If His coming destroys the wicked one--it will destroy all the living wicked.

Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The wicked living are destroyed at His coming. The saved dead are resurrected and taken into heaven with Jesus for the 1000 years---no one is left here. Satan has no one to tempt---now that is pure hell for him and his angels!

 

[iamlamad]

You can not take 7 years out of the 1000 years in heaven. The earth is left destroyed and empty after His 2nd coming. The tribulation will be before He comes back---we go through the tribulation, not taken from it. Just as the Jews were kept from the plagues, the blood of Jesus will be our blood over the lintels.

It is not "empty." Remember the sheep and goat judgment: people are left alive for the Millennial reign.

You can "tribulate" if you choose - and it seems you have chosen. I am going up with the bride of Christ before God's wrath is poured at - which begins at the 6th seal. My question to you is, why stay behind when God is coming pretrib for His saints? However, if you WANT to live through God's wrath - if you WANT to meet the Antichrist Beast, its your choice.

You are sadly mistaken, not knowing the scriptures. There are TWO (2) verses that pertain to the days of great tribulation: the saints will be overcome. Daniel said it and John said it. Don't try to argue with Daniel and John! The only people who will be safe will be the Jews who escape out into the wilderness: they will be safe because they will get supernatural protection. But there is NO VERSE anywhere that offers this protection to Gentiles who are left behind.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is not "empty." Remember the sheep and goat judgment: people are left alive for the Millennial reign.

You can "tribulate" if you choose - and it seems you have chosen. I am going up with the bride of Christ before God's wrath is poured at - which begins at the 6th seal. My question to you is, why stay behind when God is coming pretrib for His saints? However, if you WANT to live through God's wrath - if you WANT to meet the Antichrist Beast, its your choice.

You are sadly mistaken, not knowing the scriptures. There are TWO (2) verses that pertain to the days of great tribulation: the saints will be overcome. Daniel said it and John said it. Don't try to argue with Daniel and John! The only people who will be safe will be the Jews who escape out into the wilderness: they will be safe because they will get supernatural protection. But there is NO VERSE anywhere that offers this protection to Gentiles who are left behind.

Sorry---but the only ones alive are the saved in heaven with Jesus until the end of the 1000 years. That's what it says. I don't argue with Daniel or John, I just do not add anything that is not there. Neither the saved nor the lost are left behind---the saved are with Christ---all the wicked are dead until after the 1000 years. That leaves nobody on earth, except for Satan and his angels, with no one to tempt---boo hooo---poor things, all dressed up and nowhere to go! But you can believe whatever you want. Everyone will find out soon.

 

[ewq1938]

None of those verses say that all these people are on earth during the 1000 years.

How are people in the four quarters of the Earth when Satan is released from the pit if the Earth was "empty" as you claim?

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If His coming destroys the wicked one--it will destroy all the living wicked.

The Wicked is the AC and he is destroyed at the second coming. The passage does not support that "it will destroy all the living wicked". In fact Christ and his saints will rule over the nations for a thousand years so plenty of wicked people remain alive.

Satan has no one to tempt

Except all the people in Rev 20:8...as many people as there are grains of sand.

 

[mmksparbud]

How are people in the four quarters of the Earth when Satan is released from the pit if the Earth was "empty" as you claim?



The Wicked is the AC and he is destroyed at the second coming. The passage does not support that "it will destroy all the living wicked". In fact Christ and his saints will rule over the nations for a thousand years so plenty of wicked people remain alive.



Except all the people in Rev 20:8...as many people as there are grains of sand.

It says there is a 2nd resurrection---that is the resurrection of the wicked---from all over the world. If the brightness of the 2nd coming of Christ destroys the AC---what makes you think any other wicked person will not be destroyed by his brightness? Like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego--it is not the wicked that live in the fire of God---it is the righteous. To the wicked He is a consuming fire---not to the saved.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

 

[ewq1938]

It says there is a 2nd resurrection---that is the resurrection of the wicked---from all over the world.

Yes but that is after the living wicked are killed from fire out of heaven. Throughout the thousand years the Earth is very populated by living humans plus the immortal saints etc.

If the brightness of the 2nd coming of Christ destroys the AC---what makes you think any other wicked person will not be destroyed by his brightness?

Because that passage is only talking about the AC...plus the AC is cast into the LOF alive anyways.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes but that is after the living wicked are killed from fire out of heaven. Throughout the thousand years the Earth is very populated by living humans plus the immortal saints etc.



Because that passage is only talking about the AC...plus the AC is cast into the LOF alive anyways.

You have the right to believe that---it just doesn't say that.

The living wicked are destroyed at His coming, the rest of the wicked dead stay dead until after the 1000 years.
Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The 2nd resurrection is when the wicked are raised--that is after the 1000 years----that is what it says.
The 2nd death is the destruction of the wicked.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

God does not step foot on this sinful planet again until after the earth is remade. The world has a land Sabbath of a 1000 years---6 days labor and the Sabbath, 6 six years the land is sown then a one year Sabbath, 6000 years then a 1000 year Sabbath.

 

[Seventh Head]

The first resurrection is for the 144,000 elect (raptured before the antichrist's reign), who will govern the New Jerusalem ON earth, with FEW (143) of them being king, sitting on the throne of Christ, ONE after ANOTHER for 7 years (x 143 = 1,001 years, provided that Christ is one of the 144, the first and King of the kings, then he rests the 7th day/millennium).

The second resurrection is for the Great Multitude (raptured after the antichrist's reign), IF selected AFTER the Millennium of God in the Last Judgment. The Second Death, beyond the death of the body (first death), is the full disappearance of the souls in nuclear explosions.

The 144,000 used to live in Christ's time (Jewish references in the 7 letters) and reincarnated (what Hebrews 9 ACTUALLY teaches) in the 7 churches fractal period (from 34 to 2018) to experience EACH of the 7 challenges of the 7 letters to the 7 churches. From JUN 21 2019 starts the 1,260 days period of the Two Witnesses's ministry, being the 4 horsemen period (following the correspondences of the 7 sealed scroll (God's decisions) in the little open scroll since the latter is the SAME prophecy ('prophesy again') seen from the perspective of the humans).

The Tribulations are the 3.5 years period of the antichrist's reign following this 4 horsemen period. The wrath of God is the 14.5 years period of the 7 plagues (trumpets/bowls) coming after the 7 years long period of the rapture of the Great multitude, itself coming after the antichrist's reign.

If you want to know more, watch this video:

 

[iamlamad]

Sorry---but the only ones alive are the saved in heaven with Jesus until the end of the 1000 years. That's what it says. I don't argue with Daniel or John, I just do not add anything that is not there. Neither the saved nor the lost are left behind---the saved are with Christ---all the wicked are dead until after the 1000 years. That leaves nobody on earth, except for Satan and his angels, with no one to tempt---boo hooo---poor things, all dressed up and nowhere to go! But you can believe whatever you want. Everyone will find out soon.

"That's what is says" WHERE?

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (to obtain salvation [by way of being raptured])

Why does Paul mention "the Day of the Lord" just 3 verses after his classic rapture verse? It is simple: the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the DAY.
Paul here is making a paradigm: bringing two groups of people up in front of us so we can see the outcome for each group. Here is what will happen:

1. First, on a day when people are thinking and saying "peace and safety" SUDDENLY the dead in Christ will fly up out of their graves and into the air.

2. When God brings the particles of those bodies together, it will cause a great earthquake, felt around the world. (See Matthew 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." When God raised the elders of the Old Testament, that raising caused a great earthquake) This world wide earthquake will be Paul's "sudden destruction."

3. One instant after the dead in Christ are raised, those who are alive and in Christ are caught up and changed. Note carefully those NOT "in Christ" are left behind.

4. All those alive on earth and not "In Christ" are left behind and are caught in Paul's "sudden Destruction" earthquake. Paul then tells us that this is the start of God's wrath. Notice verse 9 above. Those "in Christ" have no appointments for His wrath, but all those left behind have appointments with His wrath, showing us that the rapture, PAUL's catching up as shown in 1 Thes. 4:17 - must come a moment before the start of God's wrath.

So WHERE do we find His wrath starting in John's narrative in Revelation? Of course at the 6th seal.

Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Notice what comes just before this 6th seal: of course the 5th seal. They are the martyrs of the church age. They are crying out wondering how long it will be before their murders will be judged. Notice the answer given:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

"Killed as they were..." What can that mean? Some were beheaded, others fed to lions. Some sawed in two. It cannot mean the manner of death. What it means is, killed as they all were AS CHURCH AGE martyrs. Think of it: Stephen was one of the first martyrs: he would have had no idea that the church age would last for 2000 years! So they are asking how long before judgment begins. You should read verse 11 in different translations. It seems God knows the final number of martyrs of the church age, and judgment will not come until that full number is killed.

But WHAT EVENT will end the church age and make that last martyr to complete the number? It will be the rapture of the church. Immediately after the rapture, judgment begins with the "Day of His wrath."

The truth then is this: the church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seal since the first martyr. The moment after the rapture, judgment will begin; the Day of His wrath will begin.

Now let's get some perspective: the seals are sealing the BOOK, preventing it from being opened (to reveal the trumpet judgments) until all seven seals are opened first. Once the 7th seal is finally opened (the marker for the start of the 70th week) then the 70th week will begin with the trumpet judgments.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that it is impossible to move the seals to any other place than where John put them. NO trumpet can possibly sound until all seven seals are opened.

Note very carefully, the 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial; start, midpoint and end. Then note that the rapture - just a moment before the 6th seal - must be over 7 years before Christ's coming as shown in Rev. 19.

In other words, pretrib is clearly shown in scripture. When Jesus returns on the white horse, it will be His 3rd coming. But at the 2nd, He only comes to the air, and returns to heaven; taking His bride to the homes he as prepared (John 14).

Now, read chapters 8, 9, 10, 11, etc and you will see the sudden destruction did not KILL all the people! There are people left. There will be people to hunt down and behead believers during the days of great tribulation (chapter 15) and there will be people left for the sheep and goat judgment.

Your theory then, is bogus. Plain and simple.

 

[iamlamad]

The first resurrection is for the 144,000 elect (raptured before the antichrist's reign), who will govern the New Jerusalem ON earth, with FEW (143) of them being king, sitting on the throne of Christ, ONE after ANOTHER for 7 years (x 143 = 1,001 years, provided that Christ is one of the 144, the first and King of the kings, then he rests the 7th day/millennium).

The second resurrection is for the Great Multitude (raptured after the antichrist's reign), IF selected AFTER the Millennium of God in the Last Judgment. The Second Death, beyond the death of the body (first death), is the full disappearance of the souls in nuclear explosions.

The 144,000 used to live in Christ's time (Jewish references in the 7 letters) and reincarnated (what Hebrews 9 ACTUALLY teaches) in the 7 churches fractal period (from 34 to 2018) to experience EACH of the 7 challenges of the 7 letters to the 7 churches. From JUN 21 2019 starts the 1,260 days period of the Two Witnesses's ministry, being the 4 horsemen period (following the correspondences of the 7 sealed scroll (God's decisions) in the little open scroll since the latter is the SAME prophecy ('prophesy again') seen from the perspective of the humans).

The Tribulations are the 3.5 years period of the antichrist's reign following this 4 horsemen period. The wrath of God is the 14.5 years period of the 7 plagues (trumpets/bowls) coming after the 7 years long period of the rapture of the Great multitude, itself coming after the antichrist's reign.

If you want to know more, watch this video:

Sorry, but this is mostly bogus: man's imagination. It does not follow the written scriptures.

Readers note: there are only TWO resurrections - so it follows that all who are ever resurrected MUST fit into one or the other. Therefore, the primary, chief, or most honorable (first is rank) resurrection is for all the righteous, starting with Jesus who was the firstfruits The next wave will be the raptured church. following that will be the 144,000. Finally, following those, it will be the righteous of the Old Testament along with the martyrs of the 70th week. They will be the final group resurrected "on the last day" of the 70th week.

The white horse (first seal) is to represent the church sent out.
Seals 2 through 4, the other three horsemen are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.

Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age.

Seal 6 starts the day of the Lord.

Seal 7 begins the 70th week of Daniel. There is NO 14.5 year period: that is bogus. There is a 7 year period for Daniel's people - NOT the church.

The wrath of God will begin a moment after the rapture at the 6th seal, and will continue on through the entire 70th week.

Readers, don't believe any dates set!

 

[Seventh Head]

Sorry, but this is mostly bogus: man's imagination. It does not follow the written scriptures.

Readers note: there are only TWO resurrections - so it follows that all who are ever resurrected MUST fit into one or the other. Therefore, the primary, chief, or most honorable (first is rank) resurrection is for all the righteous, starting with Jesus who was the firstfruits The next wave will be the raptured church. following that will be the 144,000. Finally, following those, it will be the righteous of the Old Testament along with the martyrs of the 70th week. They will be the final group resurrected "on the last day" of the 70th week.

The white horse (first seal) is to represent the church sent out.
Seals 2 through 4, the other three horsemen are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.

Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age.

Seal 6 starts the day of the Lord.

Seal 7 begins the 70th week of Daniel. There is NO 14.5 year period: that is bogus. There is a 7 year period for Daniel's people - NOT the church.

The wrath of God will begin a moment after the rapture at the 6th seal, and will continue on through the entire 70th week.

Readers, don't believe any dates set!

A LOT of imagination here. Sorry. The only church of Christ is those of his chosen ones. Except the 144,000, none has been chosen yet. There is NO separate '70th week' of Daniel as spread everywhere. Just a guessing game. The white horse of Rev 6 is the same white horse in Rev 19, i.e. Christ, both riders have a crown(s).

Why do you think God gave sooooo many date setting oriented data if it is not to set dates?

What I present follows the Scriptures for the Bible prophecies, as showed in the video below, match history to the least details, UNCHALLENGED in terms of logic, accuracy and chronology until now:

But, no need to fight over your beliefs that I respect. The truth will be revealed very soon with FACTS, as showed in this video.

 

[BABerean2]

A LOT of imagination here. Sorry. The only church of Christ is those of his chosen ones. Except the 144,000, none has been chosen yet. There is NO separate '70th week' of Daniel as spread everywhere. Just a guessing game. The white horse of Rev 6 is the same white horse in Rev 19, i.e. Christ, both riders have a crown(s).

Why do you think God gave sooooo many date setting oriented data if it is not to set dates?

What I present follows the Scriptures for the Bible prophecies, as showed in the video below, match history to the least details, UNCHALLENGED in terms of logic, accuracy and chronology until now:

But, no need to fight over your beliefs that I respect. The truth will be revealed very soon with FACTS, as showed in this video.

Christ gathers His Church on the day of His Second Coming.

There is no trip back to heaven in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4, or 5.

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove the two chapters are connected.'

The event is described at the end of chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found at the beginning of chapter 5.

.

 

[mmksparbud]

"That's what is says" WHERE?

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (to obtain salvation [by way of being raptured])

Why does Paul mention "the Day of the Lord" just 3 verses after his classic rapture verse? It is simple: the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the DAY.
Paul here is making a paradigm: bringing two groups of people up in front of us so we can see the outcome for each group. Here is what will happen:

1. First, on a day when people are thinking and saying "peace and safety" SUDDENLY the dead in Christ will fly up out of their graves and into the air.

2. When God brings the particles of those bodies together, it will cause a great earthquake, felt around the world. (See Matthew 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." When God raised the elders of the Old Testament, that raising caused a great earthquake) This world wide earthquake will be Paul's "sudden destruction."

3. One instant after the dead in Christ are raised, those who are alive and in Christ are caught up and changed. Note carefully those NOT "in Christ" are left behind.

4. All those alive on earth and not "In Christ" are left behind and are caught in Paul's "sudden Destruction" earthquake. Paul then tells us that this is the start of God's wrath. Notice verse 9 above. Those "in Christ" have no appointments for His wrath, but all those left behind have appointments with His wrath, showing us that the rapture, PAUL's catching up as shown in 1 Thes. 4:17 - must come a moment before the start of God's wrath.

So WHERE do we find His wrath starting in John's narrative in Revelation? Of course at the 6th seal.

Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Notice what comes just before this 6th seal: of course the 5th seal. They are the martyrs of the church age. They are crying out wondering how long it will be before their murders will be judged. Notice the answer given:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

"Killed as they were..." What can that mean? Some were beheaded, others fed to lions. Some sawed in two. It cannot mean the manner of death. What it means is, killed as they all were AS CHURCH AGE martyrs. Think of it: Stephen was one of the first martyrs: he would have had no idea that the church age would last for 2000 years! So they are asking how long before judgment begins. You should read verse 11 in different translations. It seems God knows the final number of martyrs of the church age, and judgment will not come until that full number is killed.

But WHAT EVENT will end the church age and make that last martyr to complete the number? It will be the rapture of the church. Immediately after the rapture, judgment begins with the "Day of His wrath."

The truth then is this: the church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seal since the first martyr. The moment after the rapture, judgment will begin; the Day of His wrath will begin.

Now let's get some perspective: the seals are sealing the BOOK, preventing it from being opened (to reveal the trumpet judgments) until all seven seals are opened first. Once the 7th seal is finally opened (the marker for the start of the 70th week) then the 70th week will begin with the trumpet judgments.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that it is impossible to move the seals to any other place than where John put them. NO trumpet can possibly sound until all seven seals are opened.

Note very carefully, the 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial; start, midpoint and end. Then note that the rapture - just a moment before the 6th seal - must be over 7 years before Christ's coming as shown in Rev. 19.

In other words, pretrib is clearly shown in scripture. When Jesus returns on the white horse, it will be His 3rd coming. But at the 2nd, He only comes to the air, and returns to heaven; taking His bride to the homes he as prepared (John 14).

Now, read chapters 8, 9, 10, 11, etc and you will see the sudden destruction did not KILL all the people! There are people left. There will be people to hunt down and behead believers during the days of great tribulation (chapter 15) and there will be people left for the sheep and goat judgment.

Your theory then, is bogus. Plain and simple.

I see nothing about any rapture. I have given you the verses that speak plainly that the saved will all go up to the clouds to be with Jesus, and wicked are left dead until after the 1000 years. It doesn't get any plainer. You want to throw in 7 years tribulation during the 1000 years where there is none.

Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Where are those that are taken is the question. They know where the left are---one is taken---taken where?
Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Read it---over and over---read it.
Those TAKEN WILL BE WITH THE EAGLES--THEIR DEAD BODIES WILL BE FOOLD FOR BIRDS.
It is not the left behind that are bodies for the eagles, but the taken.

Read just before this:
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Who was taken away during the flood? The lost were. Noah and his family knew the flood was coming, they were in the ark. They went nowhere, they stayed in the ark. The lost were destroyed--taken away in the flood.