RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

[mmksparbud]

No scripture supports any of that. Scripture says Christ comes here with the saints and never shows them leaving. It also shows the Earth being populated by the unsaved nations that are as many as the sands of the sea.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Doesn't say anything about them coming back to earth. When Jesus comes:

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


He comes for the saved, which go to heaven to spend 1000 years with Jesus, the wicked living die when He comes, the dead wicked remain dead---the earth is barren, desolate, empty for the 1000 years. This is Satan's bottomless pit--this empty earth is where he is bound.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This earth will have a 1000 year Land Sabbath.

Exo 23:10 And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:
Exo 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.
Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

God instituted the Sabbath---6 days of work, 1 day of rest, God had instituted a land Sabbath---six years, then 1 year of rest, The Jews did not keep the land sabbath and God had them captive in Babylon for 70 years
2Ch 36:20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
2Ch 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

It is 6000 years, then a 1000 years land sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Doesn't say anything about them coming back to earth. When Jesus comes:

Jesus doesn't only come to the clouds of the Earth at the second coming. When he finishes the second coming, the raptured saints follow him where he goes such as Armageddon which is on the ground of the Earth.

No scripture shows Christ ever leaving to return to heaven so the saints also do not go there. They all are going to rule the Earthly nations of the unsaved with a rod of iron for a thousand years so again, everyone is on the Earth for the thousand years, remain here afterwards, and the saved live the eternity here on Earth with the Trinity.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jesus doesn't only come to the clouds of the Earth at the second coming. When he finishes the second coming, the raptured saints follow him where he goes such as Armageddon which is on the ground of the Earth.

No scripture shows Christ ever leaving to return to heaven so the saints also do not go there. They all are going to rule the Earthly nations of the unsaved with a rod of iron for a thousand years so again, everyone is on the Earth for the thousand years, remain here afterwards, and the saved live the eternity here on Earth with the Trinity.

It ends at we go up into the clouds to be with Jesus---nothing about anyone coming down to this destroyed, burned up empty earth.
Jesus does not step foot ion this sinful planet again until it is remade:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I put all the scriptures together and go from that.
Armageddon is on earth when all the wicked are resurrected and they come against the descending city of God.

 

[ewq1938]

It ends at we go up into the clouds to be with Jesus---nothing about anyone coming down to this destroyed, burned up empty earth.
Jesus does not step foot ion this sinful planet again until it is remade:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

There is no second coming shown there, which would be a third coming since the second was in the clouds. Again, none of what you present is scriptural.

Christ not only is shown touching the Mt of Olives, he is also shown on Mt Zion, both mountains are located on Earth in Israel.

Jesus does not step foot ion this sinful planet again until it is remade:

He was on the sinful Earth in the past and he will return here in the future. The planet being sinful doesn't affect anything regarding the coming of Christ.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I put all the scriptures together and go from that.
Armageddon is on earth when all the wicked are resurrected and they come against the descending city of God.

Wrong again. Armageddon is fought in a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem before the thousand years begins.

The wicked that surround Jerusalem haven't died yet nor were they resurrected yet. They die there, then are resurrected for judgment. All this happens after the thousand years and has nothing to do with Armageddon.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is no second coming shown there, which would be a third coming since the second was in the clouds. Again, none of what you present is scriptural.

Christ not only is shown touching the Mt of Olives, he is also shown on Mt Zion, both mountains are located on Earth in Israel.



He was on the sinful Earth in the past and he will return here in the future. The planet being sinful doesn't affect anything regarding the coming of Christ.



Wrong again. Armageddon is fought in a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem before the thousand years begins.

The wicked that surround Jerusalem haven't died yet nor were they resurrected yet. They die there, then are resurrected for judgment. All this happens after the thousand years and has nothing to do with Armageddon.

LOL! I post the scriptures and then you say non of this is scriptural!!! Sorry, but I only use the bible as my scriptures---I don't use others! I don't go by what pastors, even my own say, or what is the popular view of things but what the bible says. It seems that you have never taken all the scriptures and put them together and read each one carefully without having others tell you what to think. Suit yourself.
It won't be too much longer before everyone will find out.

 

[ewq1938]

LOL! I post the scriptures and then you say non of this is scriptural!!!

What you posted did not prove what you were saying...so what you have been saying isn't scriptural. The Earth is populated during the thousand years and that is what has been scripturally proven by myself and others.

It won't be too much longer before everyone will find out.

Sooner the better for sure.

 

[mmksparbud]

What you posted did not prove what you were saying...so what you have been saying isn't scriptural. The Earth is populated during the thousand years and that is what has been scripturally proven by myself and others.



Sooner the better for sure.

It is what you are assuming not by what scriptures you have posted. There is nothing that has been posted that says the earth is populated during the 1000 years, much less that Jesus is here and so is the city of Jerusalem. I posted the scriptures that clearly state when Jesus comes He comes only for the saved and that the dead remain dead during those 1000 years and that the earth is totally destroyed and burned and there is nothing but emptiness here--not even birds. You refuse to accept them---and you are certainly free to do so.
I do wish we could all see the end real soon, tired of all this.

 

[ewq1938]

I do wish we could all see the end real soon, tired of all this.

Me too.

 

[DennisTate]

Firstly i am a believer in the rapture just so that you all know, but believing in such an event and having an expectation of GOING UP and leaving this rotten sin infested world and my FLESH behind is a deep craving within me, and yet my heart still aches for all those that will be LEFT BEHIND that will suffer at the hands of THOSE IN THE WORLD and THE ANTICHRIST and HIS FALSE PROPHET. I desire to leave A LEGACY to THOSE left behind, especially THOSE that are LED here by God, A LEGACY of A SAFE PLACE to SURVIVE the great tribulation. ALL christians that do GO UP in the rapture will take NOTHING with them when THEY are TRANSFORMED from flesh to spirit, so WHY not LEAVE A LEGACY of SORTS for those left behind ESPECIALLY FAMILY and friends. such as BIBLES/ FOOD/WATER/ TRACTS/ or even A MAP of WHERE such THINGS can BE FOUND???? i am sure God must have placed such a dream or vision in THE HEARTS of other believers also????

I myself knew very very little about the idea of a Rapture until I read it explained by a near death experiencer.

As I read this I began to wonder if there was a connection between the Rapture and Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement or fast day that this year is from sunset October 8 to sunset October 9.

Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

(Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com):

He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth.

 

[DavidPT]

The saved die once-- The wicked die twice.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Rev_21:8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I agree the saved die once and the wicked die twice. But I am still not clear as to who you are concluding verse 8 is referring to? If you think it is referring to the wicked dead that have been resurrected, why would satan need to deceive them yet again? I'm unaware of such a concept, such as the dead literally rising, then being deceived by a spirit being after they rise. I wish you would just go into more detail as to exactly how verses 7-9 are fulfilled according to your take on this. That way I don't have to continue guessing what you may or may not believe.

 

[mmksparbud]

I agree the saved die once and the wicked die twice. But I am still not clear as to who you are concluding verse 8 is referring to? If you think it is referring to the wicked dead that have been resurrected, why would satan need to deceive them yet again? I'm unaware of such a concept, such as the dead literally rising, then being deceived by a spirit being after they rise. I wish you would just go into more detail as to exactly how verses 7-9 are fulfilled according to your take on this. That way I don't have to continue guessing what you may or may not believe.

Satan has been sitting in an empty, destroyed earth with no one to posses or tempt for 1000 years. Lots of time to think. He knows what's coming---he has to work fast---he has a world full of wicked that are resurrected---these did not come up in glorified human bodies, they come as they died. He has to get them together to try to take the city, it is his last chance to take over from God---he has to get everyone on his side---what is he going to do to accomplish that?---more than likely present himself as a brilliant angel along with his angels and declare that he has raised them from the dead. There is nothing left he can deceive them with in order to get everyone on his side. He declares himself ruler of this world and they follow him, for what else have they got? The city is descending and they want to take it by force since they know they will not be let in. These are have the mindset they died with---evil. They aren't going to think twice, or think, "this is not the right thing to do." They will react as they have done their whole lives and try to take by force what they want. He won't have to try very hard.

 

[ewq1938]

Satan has been sitting in an empty, destroyed earth with no one to posses or tempt for 1000 years. Lots of time to think. He knows what's coming---he has to work fast---he has a world full of wicked that are resurrected---these did not come up in glorified human bodies, they come as they died. He has to get them together to try to take the city, it is his last chance to take over from God---he has to get everyone on his side---what is he going to do to accomplish that?

The resurrection of the unsaved happens after this failed attack on the city not before it as you claim. If your version was correct, it would mean the unsaved died, resurrected, died again, then are resurrected a second time for judgment day and then die a third time which scripture calls "the second death.

You have too many deaths in your theology. The people of the world Satan goes to deceive and make into his last army had never died yet...they were still alive after the second coming, and through the thousand years. There is no resurrection found in scripture after the thousand years ends and the city being surrounded by Satan's army.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


As you see, no resurrection is found here. It must take place in the following verses where the unsaved come from various places to be judged. The die in that fire, then their resurrection would have to follow that death.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the second death! Dying (1) at the second coming, resurrecting when Satan is released, then dying (2) in a fire then being judged and cast into the LOF would make the second death into the third death (3)

---more than likely present himself as a brilliant angel along with his angels and declare that he has raised them from the dead. There is nothing left he can deceive them with in order to get everyone on his side. He declares himself ruler of this world and they follow him, for what else have they got? The city is descending and they want to take it by force since they know they will not be let in.

The city does not descend at this time. They surround the old Jerusalem not the NJ which comes down only after the GWTJ of the unsaved.

and declare that he has raised them from the dead.

As I showed, the scriptures do not show a resurrection there so this isn't going to happen. Satan is in the LOF before the unsaved dead are resurrected. They will know that God resurrected them because they will be facing Him for judgment.

 

[mmksparbud]

The resurrection of the unsaved happens after this failed attack on the city not before it as you claim. If your version was correct, it would mean the unsaved died, resurrected, died again, then are resurrected a second time for judgment day and then die a third time which scripture calls "the second death.

You have too many deaths in your theology. The people of the world Satan goes to deceive and make into his last army had never died yet...they were still alive after the second coming, and through the thousand years. There is no resurrection found in scripture after the thousand years ends and the city being surrounded by Satan's army.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


As you see, no resurrection is found here. It must take place in the following verses where the unsaved come from various places to be judged. The die in that fire, then their resurrection would have to follow that death.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the second death! Dying (1) at the second coming, resurrecting when Satan is released, then dying (2) in a fire then being judged and cast into the LOF would make the second death into the third death (3)





The city does not descend at this time. They surround the old Jerusalem not the NJ which comes down only after the GWTJ of the unsaved.



As I showed, the scriptures do not show a resurrection there so this isn't going to happen. Satan is in the LOF before the unsaved dead are resurrected. They will know that God resurrected them because they will be facing Him for judgment.

There are 2 deaths of the wicked, their earthly death of which we all are a part of, and the 2nd death. You are the one inserting all the rest. Revelation is not written in chronological order.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Rev_21:8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If the brightness of His coming destroys the lawless one, what do you think it does to the rest of the wicked??

Why do you totally ignore the verses that clearly state this is a destroyed earth? And about the reality of the land Sabbaths?

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

God instituted the Sabbath---6 days of work, 1 day of rest, God had instituted a land Sabbath---six years, then 1 year of rest, The Jews did not keep the land sabbath and God had them captive in Babylon for 70 years
2Ch 36:20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
2Ch 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

It is 6000 years, then a 1000 years land sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

There are 2 deaths of the wicked, their earthly death of which we all are a part of, and the 2nd death.

You have spoken of another death for these people.

1. You have them dead at the second coming.
2. After resurrection you have them dying again from fire at Jerusalem.
3. Then there is the "second death" which is being cast into the LOF.

Your error is number 1. They didn't die at the second coming nor did they resurrect when Satan was freed from the pit.

This is what scripture says:

1. They died the first time from fire at Jerusalem after the Millennium is over.
2. Then the "second death" which is being cast into the LOF.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If the brightness of His coming destroys the lawless one, what do you think it does to the rest of the wicked??

The verse only says the lawless one is destroyed, not anyone else.

Why do you totally ignore the verses that clearly state this is a destroyed earth?

The Earth is not destroyed at the second coming. The day of the Lord is not the same as the second coming in 2Peter.

It is 6000 years, then a 1000 years land sabbath.

There is nothing in scripture about "6000 years" and then a 1000 year "land Sabbath".

 

[mmksparbud]

You have spoken of another death for these people.

1. You have them dead at the second coming.
2. After resurrection you have them dying again from fire at Jerusalem.
3. Then there is the "second death" which is being cast into the LOF.

Your error is number 1. They didn't die at the second coming nor did they resurrect when Satan was freed from the pit.

This is what scripture says:

1. They died the first time from fire at Jerusalem after the Millennium is over.
2. Then the "second death" which is being cast into the LOF.





The verse only says the lawless one is destroyed, not anyone else.



The Earth is not destroyed at the second coming. The day of the Lord is not the same as the second coming in 2Peter.



There is nothing in scripture about "6000 years" and then a 1000 year "land Sabbath".

No, at the 2nd coming the living wicked die---that is their 1st earthly death, for we all die. And then it clearly says, the rest of the dead remain dead.
Rev_20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
All the wicked are dead during the 1000 years and the saved are with Jesus in heaven.

You give no scriptures for your believe that they die the 1st time after the millennium. It does not say, this is the first death. The day of the Lord is the 2nd coming, it is indeed His day and is called that throughout the bible.

What most people fail to realize is this:

Heb_12:29 for our God is a consuming fire.
Gen_19:24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;
Exo_3:2 And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo_13:21 And Jehovah went before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them the way, and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; that they might go by day and by night:
Exo_19:18 And mount Sinai, the whole of it, smoked, because Jehovah descended upon it in fire; and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
Exo_24:17 And the appearance of the glory of Jehovah was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Num_11:1 And the people were as murmurers, speaking evil in the ears of Jehovah: and when Jehovah heard it, his anger was kindled; and the fire of Jehovah burnt among them, and devoured in the uttermost part of the camp.
Num_16:35 And fire came forth from Jehovah, and devoured the two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense.
1Ki_18:38 Then the fire of Jehovah fell, and consumed the burnt-offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
1Ch_21:26 And David built there an altar unto Jehovah, and offered burnt-offerings and peace-offerings, and called upon Jehovah; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt-offering.
2Ch_7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt-offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of Jehovah filled the house.
Psa_50:3 Our God cometh, and doth not keep silence: A fire devoureth before him, And it is very tempestuous round about him.
Psa_97:3 A fire goeth before him, And burneth up his adversaries round about.

There are many more, but understand this:

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Do you not understand that it is the righeous that will be able to stand in the presence of the devouring, consuming fire that is God? Like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego---we will stand in His fire and not be consumed. The wicked can not stand in it.

 

[ewq1938]

No, at the 2nd coming the living wicked die

Not all of them die. There will be a great many that are ruled over by Christ and his saints.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The saints reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.

second coming:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

After the second coming:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[mmksparbud]

Not all of them die. There will be a great many that are ruled over by Christ and his saints.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The saints reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.

second coming:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

After the second coming:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Why did you omit the next 2 verses?
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Can't reign over an empty burned out earth.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[ewq1938]

Why did you omit the next 2 verses?

I was making a point about who rules over who and where it happens. Christ and the saints reign on the Earth not in heaven and they reign over the nations who are on the Earth and alive.

Can't reign over an empty burned out earth.

The Earth isn't burned out at the second coming plus the rod of iron rule is over the nations not over the Earth.

 

[mmksparbud]

I was making a point about who rules over who and where it happens. Christ and the saints reign on the Earth not in heaven and they reign over the nations who are on the Earth and alive.



The Earth isn't burned out at the second coming plus the rod of iron rule is over the nations not over the Earth.

Can't rule over the dead.
Rev_20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Jesus comes as a consuming fire at His 2nd coming, that is the 1st resurrection---the earth is destroyed, the saints are taken to heaven--the dead remain dead.

 

[ewq1938]

Can't rule over the dead.

They aren't dead. Are you denying that the rod of iron reign is over the nations?

Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Are you going to tell Christ the nations are dead and can't be ruled over?

Ever look up the Greek word for rule here?

Rule

G4165
p??µa?´??
poimaino¯
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.