Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Yet they want to "reach out" to the Jew. Don't they realize how damaging it is to their mission to do such things????They are all about ant-"rabbinics", to the extreme some
come across as borderline anti-semitic.
A country club where you get burned, stoned, gassed, and attacked. Who would really want to join that club anyway? lol...
A country club where you get burned, stoned, gassed, and attacked. Who would really want to join that club anyway? lol...
Yes indeed.Don't get me wrong, everyone wanting to be a Jew is flattering in a strange way. But the unwillingness to accept or understand everything that comes with being a Jew makes it disingenuous, and offensive when they claim to speak as and for Jews.
FAR more than "on occasion". In fact, it has been incessently preached on this very forum.Bingo.Its not a big hairy deal... but Messianics make it one. They demand that anything Grecko/Roman MUST be influenced by paganism. They condemn anyone who uses Grecko/Roman language and insist on copycating the Jewish traditions.
Moreover, it has been pointed out to no end in this thread that the goss desire that Messianics seem to have in copycating the Jews and Judaism. It has been pointed out that this copycating is offensive to Jews. It has been pointed out that most Messinaics don't even have a clue what the meaning is behind what they coycat. It has been sufficiently pointed out that Gentiles assume the whole of the mitzvot are intended for them to follow, and how this is incorrect. While ignoring portions of the "law" that teach the Gentile how to live, they pretend they are Jewish and twist everything to fit as if they too are Jews. Messianism doesn't properly divide the mitzvot, showing where some laws apply to Jews and some to Gentiles. They assume (and teach) it all should be carried out by Gentiles.
In fact, it has been argued sufficiently that this is wrong and no one on the Messianic side of the coin has clearly argued anything to the contrary. Every point that is made is only answered with a bunch of whining.
They want to walk around and look like Jews. They want to use titles (ie: Rabbi) without meeting the requirements for said titles. They want to speak the language of the Jew but don't bother to learn what it means (ie: They use "Brit Chadasha" or "Yeshua" but don't read Hebrew or Aramaic... they just like the Hebrewfied terminology). No, but Gentiles pretend they are Jews and follow the mitzvot that the Jews are intended to follow. And they condemn the Christians, like Contra, who use Latin/Greek/Roman terms. They insist Yeshua/Y'shua/Yahushah/Yeshu/Yahoshua/etc/etc/ect is the proper term (they can't even agree on that!). All of this, coming from of course, people who aren't even native in the Hebrew/Aramaic tongue! While creating some fascimilie to the name of their Messiah, they look down on anyone who doesn't adhere to their twisted interpretations.
No one cares. That is until Messianism begins demonizing the Grecko/Roman expession of your faith.
Shamash, we got the principles I outlined for you previously about ordination from scripture. That's why we believe as we do- it's scriptural. It's not from men, it's from scripture. Perhaps you've not noticed it before. Like I said, we could talk about it on another thread and I can show you where in scripture our beliefs come from.
Some people seem to be attracted to being a victim/underdog, so becoming or identifying with being Jewish is one way they can openly express their victim mentality. I don't know the psychological term for it, but it does happen. I've met Christians in sects who also feel victimised or believe that the "world system" is going to persecute them to martyrdom at some stage (or already is). Their identity as a persecuted "true remnant" gives them a strange comfort. Funny thing is: they aren't actually persecuted. They tend to live in Western and affluent countries. The Christians who are truly persecuted are usually mainstream believers in poor or hostile countries like those in Africa or the Middle and Near East who actually do suffer tremendous persecution. Likewise the Jews who cry "persecuted" but live in the US or somewhere free and affluent- there's no persecution there- if they lived in Iran or somewhere else then they would have a legit gripe. Thus, when I hear of a person wanting to become Jewish and it becomes apparent that this is because they identify with being persecuted, alarm bells go off for me.
As I clearly pointed out numerous occasions, and has lead us to this point in the discussion:How does Remy's OP about wanting a rabbi to mentor him fit in with the decision that Gentiles grafting into Israel and taking on the title of Messianic mean they want to be Jews and want to be persecuted???
I asked what does the word "Scripture" in the New Testament refer to?
When you can name every congregational leader in the Messianic movement and give me his credentials than I will join in the everyone and no one game.
We all know I can't do that. We all know you can't do that. We all know there isn't a single Messianic here who can do that. No one here is omniscient. We all know this is merely a distractionary tactic you're using. We all know you have no defense against the case I've laid out.When you can name every congregational leader in the Messianic movement and give me his credentials
Exactly.What ST and others are noting is that there is no standard with which a congregation can be assured that their "Rabbi" has been thoroughly tested.
Exactly.
But to be fair, despite the Charedi sects choice to use the term prior to oridination, thee really is a well defined useage of the term. Bare minimum it is one who has received simcha ordination or in the case of Charedi sects it refers to one pursuing such a recognition.
What's that cooking in the kitchen? Smells like a bit of truth to meYep. Perhaps the underlying sentiment (the elephant in the room) is that some people just don't like establishment of any sort, and any formal seminary training is seen as being corrupted and the "teaching of men" or something. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here. But why people would be so attracted to untrained teachers who have cool titles is beyond me. I'm not sure how relevant my comments are, but I'm sure someone out there can tell me if this is the case or not?
Again as I have said before in probably most threads - I can only speak for me. Hopefully more Messianic folk will speak up and answer for themselves.
I call Him Yeshua because:
~that's what His ima called Him.
~the name Yeshua means just what it means - salvation.
~Jesus is a hybrid of Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs) which is Greek and since I am Jewish I prefer my home tongue.
~Jesus is the name used by every religion and half the time their Jesus is sure not the Messiah. And I hear it used as an epitaph more than not. And when I see it in writing half the time it is some dude in East LA.
I say Ruach Hakodesh because that is what it means - holy breath or wind. When I hear Holy Ghost or Spirit I think spooky things in white sheets. And it goes back to that native tongue thing again.
Brit Chadasha means new covenant. And I have trouble with that distinction between the old testament (covenant) and new testament (covenant) anyway like there is suppose to be a blank piece of paper dividing Malachi from Matthew. There isn't BTW. I prefer Apostolic scripture and Tanakh.
And Sha'ul is the name his ima gave him. Paul is the Greek name (there's that native tongue thing again). Rav because being a teacher which is what rabbi means Sha'ul indeed taught and had a following whether he wanted it or not.
You know it just occurred to me - why is it such a big hairy deal? Is there somewhere in the Torah that says we must all speak to HaShem like Contra or anyone else? If you don't like saying Yeshua than don't. But why is it so important for me or someone else to use His Greek or actually His hybrid name? Are you telling me I'm wrong in using Hebrew instead of Greek? I guess we all have to be Episcopalians or Methodists or Baptists - but heaven forbid a gasp Messianic.
We argue about the most insignificant things don't we?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?