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GratiaCorpusChristi
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Um.... by dogmas do you mean pious opinion? Because I specifically stated that.Your "dogmas" are neither Biblical nor in line with Lutheran theology.
Oh, and tell that to Luther.
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Um.... by dogmas do you mean pious opinion? Because I specifically stated that.Your "dogmas" are neither Biblical nor in line with Lutheran theology.
Um.... by dogmas do you mean pious opinion? Because I specifically stated that.
Oh, and tell that to Luther.
Yeah, what GCC said.Marian dogma according to GCC....
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Theotokos, the God-bearer, Mother of God, and to be revered as such. To state otherwise is heresy.
The Blessed Virgin Mary was perpetually virgin and I venerate her as such but am perfectly comfortable with those who don't. Mere pious opinion.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Queen of Heaven, as the mother of the Davidic King Jesus Christ, just as the mothers, not the brides, of Israelite kings were considered the queen. But while not merely pious opinion, I can understand how this can make people uncomfortable.
The Blessed Virgin Mary was not immaculately conceived and not without sin, as that violates the universality of Paul's statement that all have sinned.
The Blessed Virgin Mary was taken into heaven following her death and I venerate her assumption, but this is mere pious opinion and I am perfectly comfortable with those who feel otherwise.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is not Co-Redemptrix and not Co-Mediator. Christ alone is redeemer of our souls and mediator between us and the Father.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is to be venerated (dulia, not latria, the worship of God alone) in icons and hailed as queen (as in the rosary), but should not be saught out for intercessory prayer as that constitutes communion with the dead.
Anyway, that's my perspective.
Qoheleth said:"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin."
Qoheleth said:Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., Luther, authorised translation from the German by E.M. Lamond; edited by Luigi Cappadelta, London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner, first edition, 1915, Vol. IV [of 6], p. 238; taken from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer, 2nd ed. edited by L. Enders, Frankfurt, 1862 ff., 67 volumes; citation from 152, p. 58
and this was interesting to read...
"Luther's own theory on that was quite interesting. Conceived with original sin, yes, but at the infusion of the soul there was a cleansing by the Holy Spirit. He preached on this on the day of her conception (1523 I think) and he also repeated the theory years later - toward the close of his life in the 1540's. We are not bound by Luther's opinions, of course, but by the Sacred Scriptures. But we recognize that pious opinion has long held that the Most Holy Virgin (as our Symbols term her) was sinless in regard to actual sins as a special grace of God, but subject to death through the contagion of original sin from her birth." (Pr. Weedon - LCMS)
While it is true that Mary is the Mother of Jesus (she bore him and mothered him did she not?), this does not mean that we worship her, pray to her or make her to be more divine then she really is.
First, I went through all the Smalcald articles searching for Mary's name and found none. So you will have to help me there.OK yet, this is not the tenor of the Confessions and many other writings of those that wrote the Confessions...that is where we find the context behind the words
Part I of the Smalcald Articles, Jesus Christ is confessed to have beenborn of the pure, holy, and ever virgin Mary
The Apology goes on to state that
Mary is worthy of the highest honors and desires to have her example considered and followed
"{Mary is the} highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ... She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough." [Martin Luther; sermon given on Christmas, 1531]
and so on and so on
Q
[FONT="]Confess said:The first quote is taken out of context and is not XXII of the Augsburg Confession which talks about the Lord's Supper, not of the Saints. The true text comes from XXI of the Augsburg confession. Correctly put it says:
Qoheleth said:Tert,You present no conflict.
Is there anything else?
Qoheleth said:Please explain
Our salvation does not depend on how long she was a virgin.
Qoheleth said:"{Mary is the} highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ... She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough." [Martin Luther; sermon given on Christmas, 1531]
Really now? Funny thing that...Luther never said that Mary was "purpetually a virgin" and the dogma concerning the Assumption wasn't made until 1950. I think Luther was long dead by then.
Yeah, what GCC said.
DaRev - what you're thinking with the 1950 date was the RCC pronouncement on the Assumption. What GCC is talking about is what has been historically labeled the "Dormition" of Mary, celebrated on August 15.
Again, the term "semper virgo" or "ever virgin" do not appear in the original Smalcald Articles and thus is a straw man. You can stop quoting that now.Part I of the Smalcald Articles, Jesus Christ is confessed to have beenborn of the pure, holy, and ever virgin Mary
Really now? Funny thing that...
"Scripture does not quibble or speak about the virginity of Mary after the birth of Christ, a matter about which the hypocrites are greatly concerned, as if it were something of the utmost importance on which our whole salvation depended. Actually, we should be satisfied simply to hold that she remained a virgin after the birth of Christ because Scripture does not state or indicate that she later lost her virginity... But the Scripture stops with this, that she was a virgin before and at the birth of Christ; for up to this point God had need of her virginity in order to give us the promised blessed seed without sin." -The Jesus Christ Was Born a Jew
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact." -Luther's Works, vol. IV, pp. 319-320.
"Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that." -LW, vol. 1, pg. 30
" Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers." -ibid
And I could provide quotes from Calvin, Zwingli, and Wesley as well. And I'm sure as not going to be more low church than them.
No wonder I had such a time finding it.Again, the term "semper virgo" or "ever virgin" do not appear in the original Smalcald Articles and thus is a straw man. You can stop quoting that now.
He DID state it was pious opinion. We're allowed to have those, right?OK. But show me in the Confessions, which is the teaching of the Church? We don't hold that everything Luther wrote is necessarily confessional.
(As much as I hate to do this, I have to quote Edial, "Luther was out of his element when he deviated from the Scriptures"... or something like that.)
Hey, you said that Luther said nothing about it. I showed otherwise. Now you quickly dodge over to the confessions?OK. But show me in the Confessions, which is the teaching of the Church? We don't hold that everything Luther wrote is necessarily confessional.
(As much as I hate to do this, I have to quote Edial, "Luther was out of his element when he deviated from the Scriptures"... or something like that.)
He DID state it was pious opinion. We're allowed to have those, right?