Questions Wanted RE: Tattoos, Piercings, etc.

[BornAgainChristian1]

Well, yeah, when you say it like that it makes sense; thing is I honestly thought that was basically your argument...

So, then... Context is important, I guess. Thanks, BAC1!

I guess the question is why mark your body with a pagan practice that needs maintenance and you need to waste more money that certainly that could have been used for something better. The fact s tattoo's aren't cheap and must be recolored now and then. BTW I really like the placard you have on your post and agree with it

 

[tickingclocker]

I don't think they are lazy Christians.....
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True. Does some are immature Christians sound better to you? I don't judge them. Different is not better or worse. Just... different. They haven't gotten to (or refuse to, which is sin) the point where they have learned to take bigger steps out in faith within the freedom of being in Christ. Been there so I know. It IS scary at times. You have to have the want to, almost to demanding, that the Lord urge you to seek Him above all, and to take away those confining walls. Boundaries are like training wheels. Never take them off the bike, can you truly say you know how to ride?

Most of all I feel sorry for those who "think" they must cling to OT boundaries to guide them, when the Holy Spirit does an overwhelmingly greater job of guiding the believer in their walk of grace. Walls are safe. The Holy Spirit opens up a whole new, exciting vista, and is better than safe. He teaches you how to ride that bike without any training wheels!

Your second paragraph goes without saying. Check. No, I have no urge to murder my parents in their beds, or commit adultery then steal, etc. Quite the opposite. All I know is, I will NEVER again live under someone's traditional laundry list of spiritual do's and don'ts. How can I when Jesus has set me free, indeed? So, if I wanted to get a tattoo, I would. It's good to know I can IF I ever wanted to.

 

[Goodbook]

But He doesnt say go get a picture of a dragon or snake or satanic symbol,would he, like so many tattoos seem to be of. Yawn.
Also, in revelation Im sure it said something about the mark of the beast. That could be a tattoo you know, something permanent that couldnt be removed and once you got it, you marked for life. Why open yourself up to be a target for demons, thats what Id like to know.

 

[RETS]

But He doesnt say go get a picture of a dragon or snake or satanic symbol,would he, like so many tattoos seem to be of. Yawn.
Also, in revelation Im sure it said something about the mark of the beast. That could be a tattoo you know, something permanent that couldnt be removed and once you got it, you marked for life. Why open yourself up to be a target for demons, thats what Id like to know.

Entirely plausible, Goodbook, except that tattoos can already be removed without even a scar to show for it, so... No, tattoos aren't the mark of the beast, in spite of what some people may think.

 

[rjs330]

Then if it wasn't your intention why give your dissertation attempting to justify tattoo's when God forbids them? Perhaps you can produce scripture where God changed His mind about them?

Show me where God changes his mind about beard trimming, eating shell fish, eating pork, that a woman could not go to church for 33 days after giving birth to a boy, mixing fabric in clothes and eating fat. If you have ever played football you have sinned according to the Law. If you are going to live by the law then you MUST LIVE BY THE LAW. You cannot pick and choose what laws you want to live by. You have to live by all of it. It is absolutely wrong to tell,believers they must live by parts of the law, but not all of it. That leaves YOU in charge of what they must live by and what they don't have to obey. And I dare say I am not qualified to tell people what part of the law they must follow and what part they can ignore. And I don't think you are either.

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[rjs330]

Also believers are not bound by the law.

Ephesians 2:15
Gallations 3:16,19
Gallations 2;19th
Romans 6:14
Hebrews 8:7-8

Then why did Jesus say that the law will not pass away? Other scriptures explain this. The law is there to point out the sinfulness of man. It shows how sinful we are and how impossible it is to be righteous. We needed a saviour to save is because there was no,way to,live up,to the law.

Once we have accepted Christ the power of the law over us is broken. That is what Paul is saying in Romans. We are made righteous because of the CHRIST not because of the law. The law has no hold on us as believers. BUT as Paul says just cause the law hold no power over us, does not give us license to sin. Well, how do we know what sin is without the law? Read the words of Jesus, he talks a lot about sinful behavior and thoughts. Paul and the Apostles wrote letters,to the church containing a lot of instruction of what sinful behavior is. Jesus in Revelation speaks to the churches and tells them what kinds of sins they are,committing. And SOME of the sins outlined by Jesus and the Apostles are sins that are also in the Law. But not all and not all of the laws sins are contained in their words and writings. So I want to let the words of Jesus and,the apostles be my guide as to what is sin and what is not. Not the Law.


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[Goodbook]

Well, then you not aware of the wiles of the devil. Yes tattoos can be removed but theres still a scar and a cost to that, so why bother getting them in the first place. They are unnecessary.

As for mark of the beast, if you not aware of what that is, or what the symbol, name and number means then read the bible again.

 

[Goodbook]

I dont really see how tattoos are part of loving your neighbour or loving God, unless you are giving them away free, and they are somehow part of scripture. Nobody had really said how they glorify God and if they are noble and true, or how they show you are a better christian.

If you already have them before you became a christian by Gods grace you are covered, but still they can be a testament to pride and foolishness, depending on what the tattoo is. I know christians who thought they were being somehow holier than though by getting 'christian' tattoos but the holy spirit convicted them of that.

It is our good works and Christs light in us that show we are His, not marks on our skin.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Show me where God changes his mind about beard trimming, eating shell fish, eating pork, that a woman could not go to church for 33 days after giving birth to a boy, mixing fabric in clothes and eating fat. If you have ever played football you have sinned according to the Law. If you are going to live by the law then you MUST LIVE BY THE LAW. You cannot pick and choose what laws you want to live by. You have to live by all of it. It is absolutely wrong to tell,believers they must live by parts of the law, but not all of it. That leaves YOU in charge of what they must live by and what they don't have to obey. And I dare say I am not qualified to tell people what part of the law they must follow and what part they can ignore. And I don't think you are either.

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Acts 10. I agree you can't pick and choose things you think are not in effect. Read Hebrews chapters 6 thru 8. We are to obey the law and no I never said a born again Christian was under the law that is your mistaken assumption. Again the beard trimming and tattoo's are both included in pagan practices which is what the context indicates. You do comprehend witchcraft don't you?

Lev 19 :
26 ¶ Ye shall not eat the flesh with the blood: ye shall not use witchcraft, nor observe times.
27 Ye shall not cut round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the tufts of thy beard.
28 Ye shall not cut your flesh for the dead, nor make any print of a mark upon you: I am the Lord.


Yes what you ignored is CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rjs330]

No the context here is not witchcraft. Witchcraft is forbidden, but it is not the conext of these verses. It is one of the many things that God forbade in the Levitical Law. Trimming your beard had nothing to do with witchcraft.

And I agree that context is really important when interpreting scripture. Its probably the most important concept. But the writing of the law was a tabulation of the rules the Israelites had to live by. Some of the laws fit together and some were just a list.

Does that mean we could do any pagan practice we want to? Well, I would say no. Such as sacrificing animals to the goat god. But eating meat offered to idols, pagan celebration, was allowed by Paul as it was not sinful under the new covenant.

And no where in the teachings of Jesus or the apostles is tattooing mentioned. Therefore under the New Covenant it's not sinful.

However that being said. Motive for tattooing becomes an issue. God looks at the heart. Tattoos draw attention to ourselves. And God tells us not to do things for people to look at us. That is a whole other conversation.

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[BornAgainChristian1]

No the context here is not witchcraft. Witchcraft is forbidden, but it is not the conext of these verses. It is one of the many things that God forbade in the Levitical Law. Trimming your beard had nothing to do with witchcraft.

And I agree that context is really important when interpreting scripture. Its probably the most important concept. But the writing of the law was a tabulation of the rules the Israelites had to live by. Some of the laws fit together and some were just a list.

Does that mean we could do any pagan practice we want to? Well, I would say no. Such as sacrificing animals to the goat god. But eating meat offered to idols, pagan celebration, was allowed by Paul as it was not sinful under the new covenant.

And no where in the teachings of Jesus or the apostles is tattooing mentioned. Therefore under the New Covenant it's not sinful.

However that being said. Motive for tattooing becomes an issue. God looks at the heart. Tattoos draw attention to ourselves. And God tells us not to do things for people to look at us. That is a whole other conversation.

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So you're going to insist that those verses have nothing to do with pagan worship? Even though they mention it's all pagan practices? Why else would God forbid them if they weren't? The fact is God forbids the things in those verses means we don't get to vote on what you think He means. God said it, I believe it and that's good enough for me. BTW there are many things not mentioned in the new testament that we know we shouldn't do so should we do them knowing it's not mentioned in the New Testament? Christ said to teach all nations not mark your body in hope the God will in some way use it according to your will. How many tattoo's did Christ have on His perfect unblemished body to lead people to His truth?

 

[rjs330]

So you're going to insist that those verses have nothing to do with pagan worship? Even though they mention it's all pagan practices? Why else would God forbid them if they weren't? The fact is God forbids the things in those verses means we don't get to vote on what you think He means. God said it, I believe it and that's good enough for me. BTW there are many things not mentioned in the new testament that we know we shouldn't do so should we do them knowing it's not mentioned in the New Testament? Christ said to teach all nations not mark your body in hope the God will in some way use it according to your will. How many tattoo's did Christ have on His perfect unblemished body to lead people to His truth?

I bet the folks that wanted to forbid people from eating meat offered to idols made a very similar argument to the one you are making.

Why would Paul state that eating meat offered to,idols is ok?

You are correct. God meant what he said. He also meant it when he said not to eat she'll fish or animal fat or handle pigskin or eat pork etc. But that was the LAW. We are not under the Law. The believer is NOT bound to the Law. We are bound by grace and to the New Covenant as believers. The Law is still there to show how sinful humanity is and how we cannot hope to,save ourselves. But God has removed the yoke of the Law to those who are in Christ Jesus.

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[BornAgainChristian1]

I bet the folks that wanted to forbid people from eating meat offered to idols made a very similar argument to the one you are making.

Why would Paul state that eating meat offered to,idols is ok?

You are correct. God meant what he said. He also meant it when he said not to eat she'll fish or animal fat or handle pigskin or eat pork etc. But that was the LAW. We are not under the Law. The believer is NOT bound to the Law. We are bound by grace and to the New Covenant as believers. The Law is still there to show how sinful humanity is and how we cannot hope to,save ourselves. But God has removed the yoke of the Law to those who are in Christ Jesus.

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You can make up all the foolishness you feel the need to but again it's not my fault you choose to be ignorant of Acts 10. And again I stated quite clearly born again Christian are NOT under the law but we are to obey it .....so which part of that confuses you so? BTW Paul also said not to eat meat offered to idols in front of the unlearned so why did you not include that is your post?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Motive for tattooing becomes an issue. God looks at the heart.

Yes, indeed; and a lot of Christians find that faith based tattoo designs are proven effective conversation-starters in witness.

 

[rjs330]

You can make up all the foolishness you feel the need to but again it's not my fault you choose to be ignorant of Acts 10. And again I stated quite clearly born again Christian are NOT under the law but we are to obey it .....so which part of that confuses you so? BTW Paul also said not to eat meat offered to idols in front of the unlearned so why did you not include that is your post?

I didn't ignore Acts 10. Acts 10 actually supports my view. It shows that God has set aside the Law for the furtherance of the gospel. No where in that passage does Peter order the gentiles to obey the Law.

And I didn't mention the fact of Paul telling people to not eat in front of the weaker believers because it was not relevant to the point. They were STILL allowed to eat. But as deference to the weaker brother They were asked not to flaunt their freedom in front of them. Its the law of love. We are to live one another. In the case of tattoos some are free,to get tattoos. And some like you feel it is wrong and it is wrong for you. So don't get a tattoo. But don't forbid others. The other part of this is those that are free should not take you to a tattoo parlor while they get one, nor should they flaunt their tattoo in front of you. That would be wrong.



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[faroukfarouk]

...The other part of this is those that are free should not take you to a tattoo parlor while they get one, nor should they flaunt their tattoo in front of you. That would be wrong.



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I would add, indeed; if the Christian getting tattooed thinks that the other person would be damaged or hurt by the experience because he or she thinks it's somehow wrong, then it would not be appropriate to take him or her.

Of course, the other Christian might want to go, and might not have a problem with it, either, in which case it would be quite different.
(Also, some parents these days take their young people to parlors for their ear piercings because the needle method is safer and more efficient than for a 16 year old to do it with a gun at a mall kiosk. I can understand an argument that this would be appropriate to do, also.)

 

[faroukfarouk]

And no where in the teachings of Jesus or the apostles is tattooing mentioned.

It's amazing sometimes how, through tortuous reasoning, arguments from silence can be used to promote someone else's opinion as to what is not suitable, even when the tattoo in question is faith based and proven effective in witness conversations.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

I didn't ignore Acts 10. Acts 10 actually supports my view. It shows that God has set aside the Law for the furtherance of the gospel. No where in that passage does Peter order the gentiles to obey the Law.

And I didn't mention the fact of Paul telling people to not eat in front of the weaker believers because it was not relevant to the point. They were STILL allowed to eat. But as deference to the weaker brother They were asked not to flaunt their freedom in front of them. Its the law of love. We are to live one another. In the case of tattoos some are free,to get tattoos. And some like you feel it is wrong and it is wrong for you. So don't get a tattoo. But don't forbid others. The other part of this is those that are free should not take you to a tattoo parlor while they get one, nor should they flaunt their tattoo in front of you. That would be wrong.



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Actually you're not being the least bit truthful. Faith comes by hearing the word not writing it on your body.

Romans 10:17 [Full Chapter]
Then faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[rjs330]

Actually you're not being the least bit truthful. Faith comes by hearing the word not writing it on your body.

Romans 10:17 [Full Chapter]
Then faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Well it would be helpful if you pointed out where I wasn't being truthful. Perhaps I could then clarify for you So you wouldn't think I was being dishonest.

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[BornAgainChristian1]

Well it would be helpful if you pointed out where I wasn't being truthful. Perhaps I could then clarify for you So you wouldn't think I was being dishonest.

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You are defending tattoo's as a way to witness whereas the bible says differently as I pointed out to you.