Questions on Baptism - Is Baptism a 'Work', and if not, why is it Necessary ?

We are "baptized with the Holy Ghost" when we are saved....(1 Cor. 12:13)

Water (believer's) baptism is an ordinance of the church and it is an outward profession of our faith in Christ. (Acts 8:34-39).

sheina said:

We are "baptized with the Holy Ghost" when we are saved....(1 Cor. 12:13)

Water (believer's) baptism is an ordinance of the church and it is an outward profession of our faith in Christ. (Acts 8:34-39).

Click to expand...

That is not Biblical true, There were those who were saved but The Holy Spirit had not come to them yet. Paul was debating with the Jewish council if they should be baptized, and then The Holy Spirit came upon them and everyone agreed with Paul they must be Baptized right away. So they were saved yet had not yet received The Holy Spirit, A person receives the Son at being saved.

sheina said:

We are "baptized with the Holy Ghost" when we are saved....(1 Cor. 12:13)

Water (believer's) baptism is an ordinance of the church and it is an outward profession of our faith in Christ. (Acts 8:34-39).

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians: 12. 4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. - Bible Offline

Does this passage describe salvation?
Would you assume by the description of the Spiritual Gifts the intent was to teach on the gifts?
Is verse 13 a description of all the gifts being made manifest by one Spirit the Holy Ghost?
Does 13 describe by the Spirit we are baptised in the Body of Christ?
Can you separate the gifts and not operate in them and still be baptized in the Body?

Why would we baptize by water?
Ephesians: 4. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. - Bible Offline

So with one spiritual baptism can we conclude water baptism is a sacrament?

Water (believer's) baptism is an ORDINANCE of the Church...as is the Lord's Supper (Communion). Water baptism and the Lord's Supper are not channels of divine grace.

sheina said:

Water (believer's) baptism is an ORDINANCE of the Church...as is the Lord's Supper (Communion). Water baptism and the Lord's Supper are not channels of divine grace.

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what do you mean by "ORDINANCE of the Church"

now faith said:

1 Corinthians: 12. 4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. - Bible Offline

Does this passage describe salvation?
Would you assume by the description of the Spiritual Gifts the intent was to teach on the gifts?
Is verse 13 a description of all the gifts being made manifest by one Spirit the Holy Ghost?
Does 13 describe by the Spirit we are baptised in the Body of Christ?
Can you separate the gifts and not operate in them and still be baptized in the Body?

Why would we baptize by water?
Ephesians: 4. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. - Bible Offline

So with one spiritual baptism can we conclude water baptism is a sacrament?

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I must say brother you are right. I pulled the definition so i could better understand.

sac·ra·ment noun \ˈsa-krə-mənt\
: an important Christian ceremony (such as baptism or marriage)

the Sacrament : the bread and wine that are eaten and drunk during the Christian ceremony of Communion

Full Definition of SACRAMENT

1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament
2
capitalized
a : communion 2a
b : blessed sacrament
3
: something likened to a religious sacrament <saw voting as a sacrament of democracy>


We can see Baptism and the Lord Supper do fit.

Blue ; I have been pondering this lately.
With Phillip and the Ethiopian Phillip baptized him after showing him Christ in the Word.
He accepted the Lord and asked Phillip could he be baptized [paraphrase].
It wasn't implied as a commandment ,but a testimony of Faith.
This is in line with the definition of sacrament.
I want to dig a bit deeper.

According to scripture I want to know where it states we receive the Holy Ghost upon the moment of salvation.
Now most believe this,and for myself I believe we receive the Lord in our heart.
My thought is from 1st John :
1 John: 1. 2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. - Bible Offline
Verse 3 is clear yet it does not speak of the Holy Ghost.
we know their are 3 yet all three are one.

Look at this:John: 14. 20. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 25. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. - Bible Offline
John: 16. 13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 27. For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. - Bible Offline

God Bless

sheina said:

Water (believer's) baptism is an ORDINANCE of the Church...as is the Lord's Supper (Communion). Water baptism and the Lord's Supper are not channels of divine grace.

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Ecclesiastical ordinances, the bylaws of a Christian religious organization
Ordinance (Christianity), Protestant term for religious ritual.
Do you view the term ordinance proprietary with a Church denomination or the Body of believers in Christ?

As I've stated, since I'm fairly new to Christianforums, I am a lifelong Baptist, still belong to a Baptist church, but listening to Lutheran podcasts have caused me to relook at the Baptist faith with more inspection at certain aspects.

The Baptist official statement, at least SBC, is

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

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Where in Scripture does the denomination find baptism is a symbol? I'm beginning to think the Baptist denomination made that part up because they can't rationalize in their minds "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins" as literally true.

As for the original questions:
1. Why do the work of Baptism?
The person being baptized isn't do a work. God through the baptism is doing the work. The person performing the baptism is obeying the command of God.


2. Am I saved by this work of baptism?
Yes, though the person being baptized isn't doing anything.

3. Am I not saved if I don't do this work?
So the real question is, "are you saved if you intentionally refuse to succumb to baptism?" My answer would be you are not saved if that is the case. If you asking whether someone has not been baptized due to certain circumstances that allow for it, but have the faith, then certainly God's applies his forgiveness to them, like the thief on the cross.

So after responding to the questions. I know that goes contrary to the Baptist teaching. So I ask, again, Where did baptism is a symbol come from? Was it a response to the Catholic teaching on baptism?