Questions I could use some input on

[BrokenGhost]

So, I am in the process of reading "Follow Me", by David Platt, and am coming across some things that I have heard before, regarding our lives after conversion. He says what I have heard many times before, about how a true conversion will lead to great change in a person by the spirit, not by the persons own will. My questions all center around this premise: can someone who truly converted begin to fall back into old sinful habits again, or is this the sign of a false conversion? If it is possible, how should we deal with those who have fallen back to some old ways?

 

[JM]

I don't know anything about the book so I'm commenting without knowing the intent of the author or content of the book.

can someone who truly converted begin to fall back into old sinful habits again, or is this the sign of a false conversion?

Yes, we can all fall back into sinful habits but that does not necessarily mean we are false converts. If you never fell into sin I would say you probably don't know what sin is.

Paul wrote, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me." We are saved by the righteousness of Christ alone. Nothing else. We trust in Christ alone and not our performance of religious duties no matter how important they are. As you can see from Luke 17.10 even if we do ALL that is asked of us we are still unprofitable servants.

"So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."

The London Baptist Confession of 1689 reads,

"And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.

( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )

If you stumble and are never renewed by the Holy Spirit to repent...well, now you have a problem.

If it is possible, how should we deal with those who have fallen back to some old ways?

It is important the Elders know what's going on with this individual. Prayer is important. Take them to scripture privately and correct them. Preach the Gospel to them. Trust in God.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[hedrick]

I suspect you can only judge whether a person is truly converted at the end of their lives, when you see where it actually led them.

I'm also not sure that it's right to reject a role for the will. Reformed thought says that we are justified without any choice of our own. But when you look at the Christian life, you're looking at what is often called sanctification, not justification. Our will is definitely involved in it. Regeneration should affect everything, including the will. I hope the author wasn't suggesting that we should just sit back and leave it to God to change our behavior.

Someone who is regenerated by definition has faith. Faith unites us to Christ, and makes us experience death and resurrection with him, and thus have new life. But if we truly see his death for us and his promises to us, we will want to obey him. And that involves a lot of work on our part. With the support of the Holy Spirit, of course.

 

[JustAsIam77]

To the OP, I've only heard of one person who became perfect apart from Christ in their life, a person who boasted he had obtained perfection and was living a sinless life on this very website a few years ago, (not this forum), he disappeared shortly thereafter.

We will struggle even after conversion but never lose our faith in Christ, as Paul said, I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.

 

[abacabb3]

My questions all center around this premise: can someone who truly converted begin to fall back into old sinful habits again, or is this the sign of a false conversion?

I think so, but the way the fall into sin occurs and how the sinner feels during it should be qualitatively different. If you feel the same exact kind of guilt, feel equally powerless, and have not made any positive changes to deal with it (i.e. have an internet filter on your computer or something if we are talking about sexual sin for example) then I would say the conversion in false. Believers have the Holy Spirit. They will and MUST be different in an observable way.

If it is possible, how should we deal with those who have fallen back to some old ways?

We need to remind ourselves that those who say they are without sin are liars. However, we should make realistic positive changes as Christians.

For example, my brother-in-law is fornicating with his fiance. My actual brother, who committed the sin of fornication, actually stopped until the day of his wedding (though he was legally married half a year before the ceremony.) One actually changed his actions, the other has not so far. The other further is refusing to take any positive steps whatsoever to deal with it, saying "well, everyone sins sometimes." We need to conform our minds to the fact the chief purpose of our lives is to please God, and when we don't, we should feel gravely guilty and want to do something about it.

 

[bcbsr]

I would say, among other verses, the book of 1John pretty much answers that question. Take 1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." or 1John 3:9,10 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."

The effect of regeneration is such that those born of God will never fall away or live a lifestyle of sin. That's what the Bible says.

Concerning alleged "brothers" who do, they never genuinely came to faith to begin with. Either they had a misconception as to what constituted the gospel or they understood it but didn't really believe it. Like for example they may have accept Jesus as a fireman to save them from hell fire, but not as their Lord who demands submission to his will, and so don't qualify.