Questions from an Outsider

[BelindaP]

Please, guys. Let's not go there. We're just starting to get somewhere.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

that includes me , nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.

Aww, Jimminy You are definitely very, very lovely

 

[Rhamiel]

Epiphanygirl

This is the one place other than my own OBOB forum that I can come to without fearing that my faith "ID" is going to interfere, at least thats what I thought!!!

I agree with that 100%, this is the only other place on Christian forums, other than OBOB, where I do not feel like I am being attacked, I like all of you very much. I like what this sub forum stands for, objective truth and trust in the Bible, a traditional understaning of God and Christ and traditional moral values.
I think what would help a lot of us is to move on to more constructive things, rather then rubbing salt in old wounds

 

[desmalia]

I was able to come together on key christian principles with others without letting "doctrine" get in the way

This statement has really stuck with me. If you don't mind, I'd really like to know what you consider to be the difference between key Christian principles and doctrine. Thanks.

 

[Rhamiel]

desmalia

This statement has really stuck with me. If you don't mind, I'd really like to know what you consider to be the difference between key Christian principles and doctrine. Thanks.

even though the question was not adressed to me, could I please answer it, because I think I know where she is coming from?
We all agree on the Divinity of Christ and the Bible and morality but as Catholics we also believe in the apostolic authority of the Bishops and that the Pope is the first among the Bishops and prayer to the saints, I really like CC because we have not been hassled about out beliefs and have been excepted as brothers and sisters in Christ

 

[Epiphanygirl]

This statement has really stuck with me. If you don't mind, I'd really like to know what you consider to be the difference between key Christian principles and doctrine. Thanks.

To me, as a Catholic Christian, we have doctrines and dogmas that othe non-apostolic faiths don't have...ie...., real presence,perpetual virginity, etc....... these are part of my core faith.....I've even debated with a few here in GT....and we don't agree...............but thats okay......I can still respect and admire other Christians, I can still get along and work with other Christian who uphold key Christian principles and values....to me this is most imprortant......the Pro-life stance, protecting our churches from those who would try to change our stances on homosexuality, priesthood, pastorhood, these and so many more are things that we can and should work together on.........
My view, personally, I think everone should be Catholic .....but I would never force or belittle someone to force them to my way of thinking......that's not Christian at all..........it comes from the heart.........but this isn't about individual faith practices......from what I'm gathering here since i've been away........it's more about conservative stances being threatened by liberal ones.......and why should we have to "give up" what we are to appease those who want to disrupt or even hide behind the screen of "lets all be nice and pretend that we aren't trying to change you and make you accept us"....funny, but this WAS a place of acceptance of ALL different Chrisitan faiths that are conservative.......liberals have their fourm, fundys had theirs........why, oh why is this now the target for change...........maybe its the traffic....we have a lot here compared to the other.......boredom maybe????
IDK...........but I do know, from what I've read,that some peoples words and actions........well, the aren't very Christian..then when you bring it up to sort it out like an adult.........well now they want silence......."don't bring it up" don't do this, don't do that...........it's ridiculous and immature..........let the truth be known, air the dirty laundry and be done with it.........as Christians, suck it up and if you've done something wrong, repent, be ashamed......and don't do it again.......but don't try to hide, cover it up or pretend that it didn't happen, doesn't exist. etc.......

See, I went off and went random on you ......
Key Christian principles........we should be able to act like adults who hold to believe in God, respect our brethren without prejudice, even when we disagree in theology!

 

[Epiphanygirl]

desmalia
even though the question was not adressed to me, could I please answer it, because I think I know where she is coming from?
We all agree on the Divinity of Christ and the Bible and morality but as Catholics we also believe in the apostolic authority of the Bishops and that the Pope is the first among the Bishops and prayer to the saints, I really like CC because we have not been hassled about out beliefs and have been excepted as brothers and sisters in Christ

You rock dude!

 

[Simon_Templar]

I don't believe that "ecumenism" is a characteristic that is much valued by conservative Christians. I'm positive that it's not included in the Conservative Christian Wiki. Otherwise I would NEVER EVER have joined. You must be thinking of the newer more liberal evangelical churches like those led by Joel Osteen and Rick Warren.

Seriously, ecumenism is not "getting along" but rather blurring doctrine so we can all be one. Very different concepts.

there is false, worldly, comprimising ecumenism. However, there is also the true.

God's heart for his people is unity. Christ's heart is unity for his body. How is it then, that so many Christians are against this very thing.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Maybe I will accused of having an agenda by making this statement but I can safely say that this division was due for a while. In it's foundation two groups of inviduals formulated CC. One were the individuals who wanted a "peaceful environment" and wanted nothing but fellowship. My assumption is that they want to wtiness by grace but in doing so they refuse to accept the liberal agenda which has long been infultrate with deception still using biblical termionology but it having different meaning. The other was a group not willling compromise the Gospel for the CF agenda fo relativism and "unity." As many of you know I have always been part of the latter. My issue with peace and unity with the liberals is their intent. It's more than clear to me that they are familar with the truth. This isn't about ignorance but about setting another agenda in this forum which has already perverted CF as a whole.

I don't desire unity with liberals, nor with deception. However, in the midst of war, I still have peace. You see.. peace ultimately is not the absence of conflict.. it is assurance of victory.
So much of the conservative community (not just here but in the whole church) is shot through with fear, that they have no peace. There is conflict for all who truly follow Christ, but some have peace in the midst of the war that rages, and some are consumed by the war.

Its an interesting phenomenon, but people like a certain kind of fear. Its what drives horror movies, thriller movies etc. But Christians have their own version of this. It is an attitude that has many branches in the church.

The truth is that the relativism which blossomed on CF is not new, it has always been here. What existed before 7.7.7 was simply an illusion. Perhaps I'm less affected by the change because my home forum was always relativistic and liberal and changed very little after 7.7.7
The changes which occured were not very big for me because I was already used to the "new" environment.

I had already spent the better part of 2 years arguing on a daily basis against relativism and liberalism. Against the ideas of progressive truth, and humanistic faith.

I came to CC because I wanted fellowship with people of like faith.
I have heard a lot about crusading and taking the fight to th enemy.. which I'm all in favor of, but why is it being done here? shouldn't crusades be in places where the enemy strongholds are?
This is an attitude pervasive amongst Christianity today (in america anyway)... but by and large the church has been invaded by deception and false philosophy. It has been the work of generations.
Many of those who see this, or see elements of it, are so afraid of invasion, of further incursion that they spend little time actually waging real spiritual war, and instead they spend all their time hunting moles.

As I remember Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Yet our version of taking the fight to the enemy has become desperately searching for traiters on our midst.

In our fear of darkness, we have forgotten that one does not fight darkness by talking about it, by focusing on it, by waving your hands at it, by worrying about it sneaking its way in... you fight darkness simply by holding up a light.
If you are worried about darkness coming here... stop trying to find out who has darkness in their heart, and simply hold up a light.

Where there is light, darkness flees. I want to be a clear glass, filled with light for those to see who can (tolkien quote )

 

[SwirlingEd]

This statement has really stuck with me. If you don't mind, I'd really like to know what you consider to be the difference between key Christian principles and doctrine. Thanks.

...also responding to a question I wasn't asked, but hey, I WAS the OP

I think the sentiment here is that your beliefs are separate from your doctrine -- maybe in the sense that beliefs are what you think, and your doctrine is the label you put on the steps you take to follow those beliefs. I realize that's not actually the definition of doctrine, but I think that is the sentiment.

 

[desmalia]

desmalia
even though the question was not adressed to me, could I please answer it, because I think I know where she is coming from?
We all agree on the Divinity of Christ and the Bible and morality but as Catholics we also believe in the apostolic authority of the Bishops and that the Pope is the first among the Bishops and prayer to the saints, I really like CC because we have not been hassled about out beliefs and have been excepted as brothers and sisters in Christ

Thank you. That does help me understand the post a little better.

To me, as a Catholic Christian, we have doctrines and dogmas that othe non-apostolic faiths don't have...ie...., real presence,perpetual virginity, etc....... these are part of my core faith.....I've even debated with a few here in GT....and we don't agree...............but thats okay......I can still respect and admire other Christians, I can still get along and work with other Christian who uphold key Christian principles and values....to me this is most imprortant......the Pro-life stance, protecting our churches from those who would try to change our stances on homosexuality, priesthood, pastorhood, these and so many more are things that we can and should work together on.........
My view, personally, I think everone should be Catholic .....but I would never force or belittle someone to force them to my way of thinking......that's not Christian at all..........it comes from the heart.........but this isn't about individual faith practices......from what I'm gathering here since i've been away........it's more about conservative stances being threatened by liberal ones.......and why should we have to "give up" what we are to appease those who want to disrupt or even hide behind the screen of "lets all be nice and pretend that we aren't trying to change you and make you accept us"....funny, but this WAS a place of acceptance of ALL different Chrisitan faiths that are conservative.......liberals have their fourm, fundys had theirs........why, oh why is this now the target for change...........maybe its the traffic....we have a lot here compared to the other.......boredom maybe????
IDK...........but I do know, from what I've read,that some peoples words and actions........well, the aren't very Christian..then when you bring it up to sort it out like an adult.........well now they want silence......."don't bring it up" don't do this, don't do that...........it's ridiculous and immature..........let the truth be known, air the dirty laundry and be done with it.........as Christians, suck it up and if you've done something wrong, repent, be ashamed......and don't do it again.......but don't try to hide, cover it up or pretend that it didn't happen, doesn't exist. etc.......

See, I went off and went random on you ......
Key Christian principles........we should be able to act like adults who hold to believe in God, respect our brethren without prejudice, even when we disagree in theology!

Excellent post, thanks!
Your opinion about what CC should be is absolutely correct, IMHO. No one should have to muzzle or give up what they believe to be here. It's a matter of basic respect.

This forum has not become fundamentalist vs. Catholic (and I'm glad you feel that way too). If anything, when we've seen such an accusation leveled, it was quite possibly in a spirit of fear, not love. But we should be fully capable of disagreeing on these things without trying to annihilate each other.

We each have our own "home forum" but shouldn't need to be banished to them because we disagree on things. I feel the same kind of thing as you, in that I would love to see believers become more "fundamentalist". But while that is my desire, the word "militant" in our wiki statement (that has been so criticized here) has absolutely nothing to do with trying to brow beat or force people to believe as we do. I agree that we should be free to debate and discuss the issues respectfully. As soon as it becomes a reactionary personal vendetta, neither light nor love are being expressed, and satan wins. It has been suggested that the fundamentalists are trying to force the Catholics out of here. I'm glad to read that this is not how you actually feel. I am also glad to verify that Catholics are not trying to force the fundamentalists out either.

We've got people here on the attack on behalf of one supposed group or another. But it doesn't seem the individual members that make up that group necessarily feel the need to have someone "champion their cause", especially because it becomes so childish, as you mentioned. (And I fully admit my sin in this as when I saw fundamentalists being attacked, I jumped in to represent them, which accomplished absolutely nothing.)

There are some real issues here, I agree with you on that. Liberal is a word we can use to describe them, undoubtedly, but you know I think at its core it's much darker than simply that.

I am encouraged that you and I, though coming from very different viewpoints, can discuss this respectfully.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Thank you. That does help me understand the post a little better.


Excellent post, thanks!
Your opinion about what CC should be is absolutely correct, IMHO. No one should have to muzzle or give up what they believe to be here. It's a matter of basic respect.

This forum has not become fundamentalist vs. Catholic (and I'm glad you feel that way too). If anything, when we've seen such an accusation leveled, it was quite possibly in a spirit of fear, not love. But we should be fully capable of disagreeing on these things without trying to annihilate each other.

We each have our own "home forum" but shouldn't need to be banished to them because we disagree on things. I feel the same kind of thing as you, in that I would love to see believers become more "fundamentalist". But while that is my desire, the word "militant" in our wiki statement (that has been so criticized here) has absolutely nothing to do with trying to brow beat or force people to believe as we do. I agree that we should be free to debate and discuss the issues respectfully. As soon as it becomes a reactionary personal vendetta, neither light nor love are being expressed, and satan wins. It has been suggested that the fundamentalists are trying to force the Catholics out of here. I'm glad to read that this is not how you actually feel. I am also glad to verify that Catholics are not trying to force the fundamentalists out either.

We've got people here on the attack on behalf of one supposed group or another. But it doesn't seem the individual members that make up that group necessarily feel the need to have someone "champion their cause", especially because it becomes so childish, as you mentioned. (And I fully admit my sin in this as when I saw fundamentalists being attacked, I jumped in to represent them, which accomplished absolutely nothing.)

There are some real issues here, I agree with you on that. Liberal is a word we can use to describe them, undoubtedly, but you know I think at its core it's much darker than simply that.

I am encouraged that you and I, though coming from very different viewpoints, can discuss this respectfully.

Thank you for your post, I am encouraged by it......this is my take on things....
With all the turmoil going on in the world, why, oh why, can we, as Conservative Christians not come together on core Conservative Christian morals and ethics? This is where 99% of us can work together !!

When and if in my lifetime Christians should be hunted down, I would not deny you entrance into my home to protect you.....are we not Christians first?
As such, as Conservatives, each of us, within our own respective faith practices, are trying to hold fast and protect those who would try to change or detroy the foundations of our faith......another thing we have in common......For example: I've seen many here in GT, needless to say, we don't agree on theology....but guess what.......I've seen those same posters in here talk on morality and ethics........AND WE AGREE!!!!!
IMO, its not the church doors that we walk through that totally define us, or that we should judge each other by, but rather our actions and the way we behave as Christians..........I don't want to stand before the Lord and have Him say "I never knew you" because I couldn't even treat another Christian with the respect they deserve all because they wern't the same Christian faith as me.