questions for those who pray to "Saints"

[jckstraw72]

it is something other than a literal understanding of being his body.

and that would be ....?

 

[christianmomof3]

We are the Body of Christ. But, we are not perfect.
Christ in our human spirit is perfect and when we turn to our spirit we can live and express Christ. And, we have to be in spirit to be the church. A bunch of born again Christians playing football may not be expressing Christ. But if they are in prayer, they may be.

 

[MrPolo]

Now, according to what you want us to think, we are supposed to be praying to the moon.

I don't think the moon is part of the Body of Christ. Do you? Angels are and do you remember the story from Zechariah I gave you of the Jews asking the angel for help? You have to be able to consider multiple Scripture passages at the same time if you want to understand God's written Word. The Psalm is poetic. If I am writing poetry and saying, "Pray with me everyone! Pray with me Albion! Pray with me Thekla! Pray with me every stone and grain of sand on the earth!" I hope you would be in tune enough with the form of the literature to distinguish between the transition of people and stones. Anyway, I gave you like 10 verses to this matter, and if you want to continue to say they don't address this issue, I will officially be completely bored with the dialogue.

 

[MrPolo]

HisWordisTruth
so by the power of God, the spirits of those who are dead can hear what we say?
this sounds like the orthodox view of praying to the saints "they can hear us because of the power of God"

Exactly.

 

[Uphill Battle]

and that would be ....?

body of believers = body of Christ.

unless you want to say the bride of christ is the same as the physical body of Christ.

how can we be any such thing?

 

[jckstraw72]

ok so WHY are we called the Body of Christ -- what does that actually mean?

 

[Uphill Battle]

ok so WHY are we called the Body of Christ -- what does that actually mean?

Paul used graphic imagery to show how each person in the "body" had it's place, and how the head can't tell the toe it doesn't need it, etc... etc...

I thought that was rather basic, given the text.

 

[christianmomof3]

The church as the Body of Christ is absolutely a matter of life. The church as the Body of Christ is not a doctrine; it is of life. A man cannot become a part of the Body of Christ just by understanding it. He becomes a part of the Body of Christ through regeneration. This is absolutely a matter of life; it has nothing to do with knowledge or doctrine.

Romans 12 tells us that the church is the Body of Christ, but it does not explain how the church becomes the Body of Christ. In order to understand how the church becomes the Body of Christ, we have to understand Romans 5 through 8. Chapter five tells us that all men are joined to Adam and that man derives his life from Adam. Through Adam's fall, all men have become sinners and have been joined to the old man. Chapter six tells us that the old man has to be dealt with; it has to be crucified with Christ. Through Christ's redemption, we have died and resurrected. Chapter seven says that a man should no longer live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Chapter eight goes on to explain how we live according to the Spirit.

The consummation of the work of the cross is the church. The work of the cross goes as far as the Body of Christ and consummates with the Body of Christ. Hence, the knowledge of the cross brings us to the knowledge of the Body of Christ. The cross brings a man to a state of weakness and inability, one in which he totally loses hope in the old creation. When he is brought to this point, he is delivered in a real way from the old creation and brought into the new creation. Everything in the old creation has been condemned and terminated by the cross. The Body of Christ is the new creation; it has nothing to do with the old creation. If we resort to human methods, tactics, and skills (which we have used in the past) to deal with the affairs of the church, the result will only be disastrous. God does not approve of anything that is from the old creation, and He will not allow anything from the old creation to remain in the new creation. Everything of the old creation must pass through the cross and remain on the cross. The church has no use for anything that comes from the old man. The church only takes that which issues from Christ.
When man fell, he fell because of his own concepts, choices, and judgments. Therefore, God will not allow anything that issues from the old creation to gain the upper hand. The "backbone" of the natural man must be broken; the hollow of his thigh must be touched. Before he will submit to God, he must be crippled and fall flat on his face. This is what God is doing in the new creation. He is smashing everything of the old creation, and He is constituting us with everything that issues from Christ so that we can become the Body of Christ in practicality. I saw the evil of man's flesh twelve years ago in Philippians 3, Romans 5, and John 5. For seven months I was hesitant to make any move at all, because I knew that everything that issued from the flesh would be rejected by God. God wants to remove everything in man that is from the flesh. God's children must first deal with the natural life. If they deal with their natural life, they will be in the Body spontaneously, because the Body of Christ is composed of everything that issues from Christ. Nothing of the old man can remain in the Body. As soon as a man passes through the experience in Romans 5 through 8, he can enter into the experience of Romans 12.
Today the church is divided because Christians are living in the wrong realm and the wrong sphere. Christians are not living in the new creation or in the reality of the Body of Christ. They are living only in the superficiality of doctrines, which belongs to man's natural life and is part of man's oldness. If every Christian was willing to be dealt with and to leave the natural things and the old creation behind, and if every one of them was willing to live in the reality of the Body of Christ, there would be no more divisions. May the Lord be merciful to us to see what the Body of Christ is. May the work of the cross usher us into the Body of Christ.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/alphabetical.cfm

 

[Thekla]

that was interesting, thanks

when they say flesh, though, do they mean sarx or soma ?

 

[christianmomof3]

that was interesting, thanks

when they say flesh, though, do they mean sarx or soma ?

I don't know. I looked both of those words up and the definition of sarx fits the usage but I did not find a definition of soma.
Could you please define both?