Questions for Epicopalians (Especially Irish Episcopalians)

[Rob_Skellington]

I have a few questions I'd like to ask about Episcopal beliefs in Ireland, but I feel I should be upfront about my intentions: not only am I interested in researching it for my own personal benefit, but I'm doing research for a character in a novel I'm writing.

With that having been said, would anyone be willing to answer my questions about the Episcopal church in Ireland?

 

[PaladinValer]

I have a few questions I'd like to ask about Episcopal beliefs in Ireland, but I feel I should be upfront about my intentions: not only am I interested in researching it for my own personal benefit, but I'm doing research for a character in a novel I'm writing.

With that having been said, would anyone be willing to answer my questions about the Episcopal church in Ireland?

The Church of Ireland is a member of the Anglican Communion, the third largest Christian church in the world.

What would you like to learn of it? I do not believe we have many members here who are a part of that particular province, but as we have many members of the Anglican Communion as a whole, we'd be very happy and willing to answer any questions you have.

 

[Rob_Skellington]

Thank you. I'd be open to any insight. My character is a man who is in his mid-to-late fifties. He spent the first thirty years of his life "playing the Prodigal" as he puts it (and most of that was spent in the Irish Army Rangers). He then left the military, immigrated to the United States, and became a priest (that is the proper title, right?). After operating a house church for approximately fifteen years, he retired from the ministry.

What are the requirements of a priest? What kind of education do they have?

Is there a standard Episcopal view on the death penalty? What about military service (especially including military service that involved "special operations" in which it can be presumed that many people were killed)?

Is there anything in the scenario I've described above that seems completely unlikely for an Episcopalian priest?

 

[PaladinValer]

Thank you. I'd be open to any insight. My character is a man who is in his mid-to-late fifties. He spent the first thirty years of his life "playing the Prodigal" as he puts it (and most of that was spent in the Irish Army Rangers). He then left the military, immigrated to the United States, and became a priest (that is the proper title, right?). After operating a house church for approximately fifteen years, he retired from the ministry.

Okay, a few things right off the bat:

1. Anglicanism has no concept of "house churches." A priest can be monastic (attached to a monastery and probably a monk or nun), academic (teaches, runs a school ministry, or is a school administrator), or parish (attached to a mission or parish), but we reject the "house church" phenomenon that is popular among some. It goes against our ecclesiology.
2. Priest is the correct title of the second order of the ordained ministry, yes. However, you cannot "cease" ever being a priest. Even if a priest is defrocked, or lacitized, the individual remains in Orders. A "retired" priest is an ordained priest who no longer is actively involved in the ordained ministry; they no longer are being paid their salary because they are no longer are working full time.

What are the requirements of a priest? What kind of education do they have?

In The Episcopal Church, you are required to have an undergraduate degree and then seminary which typically lasts 3 years. Before this is a long discernment process which typically lasts 1.5 to 2 years, if not longer. Upon completion, the individual is ordained a deacon first and then a priest 6 to 12 months later depending on the will of the bishop.

In order to be a priest, you must complete not just seminary but have the approval of the standing committee of the diocese you are in, the diocesan bishop, and before that, must be recommended by the priest of your parish or mission as well as the discernment committee and vestry. All priests also must satisfactorally be evaluated by a licensed psychologist and general medical doctor. A priest must agree to abide by the Constitutions and Canons of The Episcopal Church, which means being Nicene-compliant and affirming, seven sacraments, Holy Bible as authoritative in matters of faith, doctrine, and salvation, adherence to Holy Traditions as canonized by the Church, etc.

Is there a standard Episcopal view on the death penalty?

Generally, we don't think highly of it, although individuals can and do disagree.

What about military service (especially including military service that involved "special operations" in which it can be presumed that many people were killed)?

Military service is up to personal choice. The Episcopal Church has military chaplains in all branches of the military, so there is no moral objection to serve.

As for "special operations," there aren't any moral objections that I can think of.

Is there anything in the scenario I've described above that seems completely unlikely for an Episcopalian priest?

Well, honestly, you'd have to fit in the whole discernment process as well as three years of seminary and time as a deacon into your character, not to mention the fact that it is very atypical for a priest to stop practicing their vocation until he or she must by age ceiling, and even then, many volunteer as supply clergy. The Church won't ordain someone who isn't called to live their life dedicated to the ordained ministry.

I would suggest continuing to ask questions, because, and I say this with respect, your character needs a little tweaking. I doubt it'll create too much hastle, but with proper knowledge, I'm sure you can accomidate things and reconcile your ideas nicely.

 

[LuxMundi]

The process is different in the UK than the US and the discernment process may differ from diocese to diocese depending upon the bishop and historic practice.

Try: Church of Ireland - A province of the Anglican Communion

 

[PaladinValer]

The process is different in the UK than the US and the discernment process may differ from diocese to diocese depending upon the bishop and historic practice.

Try: Church of Ireland - A province of the Anglican Communion

His character appears to have become a priest after immigrating to the United States, so in order for his novel to be factually accurate, the discernment process for Anglicans in The Episcopal Church would be what must be concentrated on, not those in Ireland.

 

[Rob_Skellington]

Thank you all for the responses. My character does need tweaking, though his attitude is that he's somewhat embittered toward the way "Church is done" in the United States. Because of that, I think I could get away with his forsaking the Episcopal denomination and starting a house church before becoming embittered with that as well. He's not a man who wears a "chip on his shoulder," but he's a man who isn't easily swayed from an idea that he settles on.

I'll have to do a little more research to tweak his history. However, I think his personality won't be much of a problem. Since he spent essentially 60% of his life in special operations for the Irish military, I think he's got a perspective that is different from that of the "born and bred" Episcopal priest.

 

[PaladinValer]

Thank you all for the responses. My character does need tweaking, though his attitude is that he's somewhat embittered toward the way "Church is done" in the United States.

Okay, but that requires him to have a valid knowledge of The Episcopal Church, and since it is a fellow province of the Church of Ireland in the Anglican Communion, that is going to have to be done in a way that is authentic and truthful.

Because of that, I think I could get away with his forsaking the Episcopal denomination and starting a house church before becoming embittered with that as well. He's not a man who wears a "chip on his shoulder," but he's a man who isn't easily swayed from an idea that he settles on.

Then, just to let you know, he is no longer an Anglican and has automatically defrocked himself.

I'll have to do a little more research to tweak his history. However, I think his personality won't be much of a problem. Since he spent essentially 60% of his life in special operations for the Irish military, I think he's got a perspective that is different from that of the "born and bred" Episcopal priest.

Again, I find that very hard to pull off. With the 4 years of college required, 1.5-2+ years of discernment, and then diaconate for 6-12 months, that's a LONG time. You have a character that has a VERY active background as it is and most of it isn't even in the US and leaves little time for that process if he was in the Irish Army for 30-some years.

Plus, you still need to recognize that the discernment process is meant to weed people out who are not serious and thereby not called by God to be in the ordained ministry. Clearly, your character is not. You would have to create a very convincing story on how he was able to wiggle his way through, and that is not going to be easy. As I said above, the way you just describe him now, he isn't even an Anglican nor is he a licit priest anymore.

 

[Rob_Skellington]

Okay, but that requires him to have a valid knowledge of The Episcopal Church, and since it is a fellow province of the Church of Ireland in the Anglican Communion, that is going to have to be done in a way that is authentic and truthful.

Absolutely, I agree. He needs to come across as an authentic Anglican, and therefore I need to know what an authentic Anglican looks like. Also, I'd like to offer a clarification: it's not just Anglicanism that he's embittered toward; he's put off all denominations and anything else he sees as separatism in the Church.

Then, just to let you know, he is no longer an Anglican and has automatically defrocked himself.

That would probably fit in with his character.

Again, I find that very hard to pull off. With the 4 years of college required, 1.5-2+ years of discernment, and then diaconate for 6-12 months, that's a LONG time. You have a character that has a VERY active background as it is and most of it isn't even in the US and leaves little time for that process if he was in the Irish Army for 30-some years.

Plus, you still need to recognize that the discernment process is meant to weed people out who are not serious and thereby not called by God to be in the ordained ministry. Clearly, your character is not. You would have to create a very convincing story on how he was able to wiggle his way through, and that is not going to be easy. As I said above, the way you just describe him now, he isn't even an Anglican nor is he a licit priest anymore.

You may be right; I might need to shorten his military career significantly and adjust his age a bit in order to accommodate his education and conversion (as well as his forsaking of denominations).

My character joined the Irish Army when he was sixteen. When he was seventeen, the Irish Army Ranger Wing (ARW) was formed (16 March 1980) and he volunteered two years later at age nineteen. Since I last posted, I have learned that the average officer spends between three and four years in the ARW, so that puts him at twenty-three when he left military service.

In keeping with my story's main character, my priest would have retired from the house church business four years prior to the beginning of the story. Since my priest was born in 1963 and left military service in 1986, then retired from being a priest in 2012, his conversion would probably be juxtaposed with the cessation of his military career.

That puts his education at any point between 1987 and 1990, which gives him plenty of time to work as a priest and then become embittered. The hurdle then becomes finding a convincing reason for him to grow embittered toward denominations and "the way church is done." The cause for his abandonment of the priesthood doesn't have to be directly tied to the church; he could have a traumatic experience and be exceptionally discontent with the way his church family reacts to that experience in his life.

From there, I can cause him to go down a road of malcontent that finally settles at a point where he is no longer angry, but he is too far from where he came to look back (in his mind). I have a scenario in mind that I'll work on developing, though for that I have a few questions:

Are Episcopal priests prohibited from marriage? Can they have children? If my priest allegedly commits several crimes but never admits to them and is never convicted, how will that influence his ability to maintain the priesthood?

 

[Bostonman]

Are Episcopal priests prohibited from marriage? Can they have children? If my priest allegedly commits several crimes but never admits to them and is never convicted, how will that influence his ability to maintain the priesthood?

Like other priests in the Anglican Communion, priests in TEC can marry and have children. Again, as has been mentioned above, there is a lengthy and serious discernment. Presumably any known or alleged crimes would have come up during that.

 

[KatherineS]

Rob --

On a somewhat different track, you may want to consider the sociological situation of members of the Church of Ireland (the formal name for Irish Episcopalians). A generation ago, almost all members of the Church of Ireland were considered Anglo-Irish, i,e, people with a low degree of Irish nationalism and somewhat of a British identity. Very recently, members of the C of I have seen themselves and are increasingly seen by Catholic Irish as fully and patriotically Irishmen. Some of this is due to secularization where one no longer must be Catholic to be Irish.

Members of the C of I do still tend to be in the upper stratas economically. Many attend British universities or Ireland's Protestant university, Trinity College.