Questions about the Nicene Creed and some Christian forum rules about beliefs...?

[Neogaia777]

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[Bible Highlighter]

No, Jesus is and has always been our God, by God the Father, from the beginning, the only begotten God, by God the Father...

Just that the Father, that no one has ever seen or heard from except our God, was, or used to be, just "slightly lesser" than him, but no less of being our God though, for he is our God that we can see and hear, and/for there is no other God that we can see or hear or behold at all besides him, the God the Son, our God...

He is the only God we know of, and we can only possibly even know our God the Father only through and by him, as our God, and there is no other way, other than that...

I believe he stepped into time with us (Jesus as our God, who is also YHWH) to be a part of time with us and experience time with us, after creation, after they (God the Father, God the Son (Him our God) and God the Holy Spirit) created it...

It was necessary for God the Son to lose something, like a little bit of his omniscience, (or former glory) in order For God the Father (and them) (the triune God), to show us him/them and his/their heart... It was necessary for him (our God) to lose a little bit of that, to do that, or it would not have been possible to do that, (them to show us them)...

Full omniscience (or being a being with 100% full complete omniscience) would have "restricted" and prevented him/them from doing that (showing us them/God and their heart)... It took, and would take one, just "slightly less" (Christ as our God) to do that, or it would not have been possible, without them, or one or any of them, becoming just "slightly less"... For them trying to show us them, with 100% omniscience, they would have had to have been "acting" (like an actor) or "pretending", to "not know" things that they already knew (or IOW's they would have had to be being deceptive) or they (any one of them, trying to show us them)... It is just is not possible with 100% full omniscience, without basically lying or being deceptive in some way... Which they just do not ever do...

Our God (YHWH/Christ) had to step down into time with us and creation with us and lose or forsake some of his former omniscience, (or former glory) and be and become a part of time with us to show us them (God) and their heart and their being and person, and this one is our God... Otherwise it cannot and could not have been done... They chose the Son for this task, and he became "God with us", after creation...

Now they (the three) were always with each other, but took "turns" in being the head of the Godhead... In the OT and immediately after creation and up to the crucifiction, it was God the Son at the head as our God, and is the only one we know of as God, and is the one we have to know in order to know at all, the other two, at all... Cause the Son showed, and shows us God, cause he is our God...

He is the only God we can see and hear, which makes him our God, or God with us, and is the only way to know anything about the other two, when you have the full revelation of the Son as our God, or come to know him fully as God, then you will know the other two at that time, for there is no other way to know them...

God Bless!

While I do realize that Jesus did not appear to show that He always had the power of Omniscience during His Earthly life or ministry, do you believe that is proof enough to show that Jesus had no powers whatsoever as God while He was a man during His time in the flesh prior to the cross? Meaning, do you believe Jesus was completely without any powers during His Earthly ministry?

 

[Neogaia777]

While I do realize that Jesus did not appear to show that He always had the power of Omniscience during His Earthly life or ministry, do you believe that is proof enought to show that Jesus had no powers whatsoever as God while He was a man during His time in the flesh prior to the cross? Meaning, do you believe Jesus was completely without any powers during His Earthly ministry?

No Jesus had a lot of power, in fact "all power" but not all knowledge, but a whole heck of a lot of knowledge...

He clearly had all power in that "all the invisible angelic and demonic forces here with us had to obey his every command, or whem"... This is what gave him supernatural powers and abilities, and was probably how he supernaturally healed people as well... The army officer in Matthew 8 knew this about Jesus having this power or ability, yet being under the power also, (or command) of only one, that is, God the Father... But as for "all the others", Jesus had full power, command, and authority over them all... An Jesus praised the army officers great faith due to this, and pointed it out to everyone...

Then there is/was his knowledge, he knew where a particular fish was going to be at particular time and place with a coin in it's mouth for Peter. And where a donkey or colt that had never been ridden was going to be tied up at a certain, particular time and place that he told his apostles to go and get for him to go into Jerusalem with... The man with the water pot, (which was unusual), to lead them into the upper room for the last supper... And other examples I can't remember off the top of my head right now...

I also believe he knew far beforehand sometimes, where the people were, and where they would be, and what they would be doing (and what he was gonna do at that time for them) (heal them, cast certain demons out, whatever) long before it happened or he even ever did it... He definitely has some seemingly very strange, unexplainable to us, knowledge or foreknowledge, that I think cam from the Holy Spirit being in him and with him..

In that and many ways he was just like YHWH in his having all power and being very nearly fully omniscient, but there were just "some few things" he did not know or could not see all the way or completely, like the Father did (know) and could see... For his (the Father's knowledge) is and was and has always been "fully complete" from the very beginning, from before the beginning, that is why he is the one who predestines all, even including God the Son, or YHWH/Jesus... and, all of us of course, from before the beginning only the Father knows, or knew all completely always, and the Son/YHWH/Jesus very nearly, but not completely... But did before creation and after he was resurrected and ascended...

From the moment God the Father set all (of us all) in motion, or creation in motion, he knew and could predict every single choice, every single interaction/action and reaction of all and how that would all interact and all affect things, ect, and all outcomes to the very ending of them (all) from before the beginning, there is nothing, NOTHING, he does not know... The Son knew a lot, A LOT, (way, way more than any of us) but, not that much (as I just described the Father having)...

But, God the Son had all power, and "nearly" all-knowledge, but not quite as much knowledge as the Father, but way more than any of of us, or any angel, or any created being did... Just not as much as the Father is some certain areas, areas that he had to be limited in, to show us them (the Godhead), or their heart, feelings, emotions, ect... For "full omniscience" (like that that the Father had), would prevent him from doing that without another like him, who was only just "slightly less" in some ways than him, ways in which he would need to be less in order to show us "them" (and our own selves, or the God in us), (in the process) (also)...

Jesus was YHWH you see, their knowledge and power was equal, their powers and powers of prediction according to the knowledge they did have are/were unmatched and "second to none", except/but the Father alone... And still baffle any of us to this day...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No Jesus had a lot of power, in fact "all power" but not all knowledge, but a whole heck of a lot of knowledge...

He clearly had all power in that "all the invisible angelic and demonic forces here with us had to obey his every command, or whem"... This is what gave him supernatural powers and abilities, and was probably how he supernaturally healed people as well... The army officer in Matthew 8 knew this about Jesus having this power or ability, yet being under the power also, (or command) of only one, that is, God the Father... But as for "all the others", Jesus had full power, command, and authority over them all... An Jesus praised the army officers great faith due to this, and pointed it out to everyone...

Then there is/was his knowledge, he knew where a particular fish was going to be at particular time and place with a coin in it's mouth for Peter. And where a donkey or colt that had never been ridden was going to be tied up at a certain, particular time and place that he told his apostles to go and get for him to go into Jerusalem with... The man with the water pot, (which was unusual), to lead them into the upper room for the last supper... And other examples I can't remember off the top of my head right now...

I also believe he knew far beforehand sometimes, where the people were, and where they would be, and what they would be doing (and what he was gonna do at that time for them) (heal them, cast certain demons out, whatever) long before it happened or he even ever did it... He definitely has some seemingly very strange, unexplainable to us, knowledge or foreknowledge, that I think cam from the Holy Spirit being in him and with him..

In that and many ways he was just like YHWH in his having all power and being very nearly fully omniscient, but there were just "some few things" he did not know or could not see all the way or completely, like the Father did (know) and could see... For his (the Father's knowledge) is and was and has always been "fully complete" from the very beginning, from before the beginning, that is why he is the one who predestines all, even including God the Son, or YHWH/Jesus... and, all of us of course, from before the beginning only the Father knows, or knew all completely always, and the Son/YHWH/Jesus very nearly, but not completely... But did before creation and after he was resurrected and ascended...

From the moment God the Father set all (of us all) in motion, or creation in motion, he knew and could predict every single choice, every single interaction/action and reaction of all and how that would all interact and all affect things, ect, and all outcomes to the very ending of them (all) from before the beginning, there is nothing, NOTHING, he does not know... The Son knew a lot, A LOT, (way, way more than any of us) but, not that much (as I just described the Father having)...

But, God the Son had all power, and "nearly" all-knowledge, but not quite as much knowledge as the Father, but way more than any of of us, or any angel, or any created being did... Just not as much as the Father is some certain areas, areas that he had to be limited in, to show us them (the Godhead), or their heart, feelings, emotions, ect... For "full omniscience" (like that that the Father had), would prevent him from doing that without another like him, who was only just "slightly less" in some ways than him, ways in which he would need to be less in order to show us "them" (and our own selves, or the God in us), (in the process) (also)...

Jesus was YHWH you see, their knowledge and power was equal, their powers and powers of prediction according to the knowledge they did have are/were unmatched and "second to none", except/but the Father alone... And still baffle any of us to this day...

God Bless!

Do you believe Jesus gave up His power of Omniscience or do you think He simply suppressed this power?

 

[Neogaia777]

Do you believe Jesus gave up His power of Omniscience or do you think He simply suppressed this power?

I think he was chosen and there was an agreement among the three that he would limit himself "just enough" to be a part of time with us and show us "them" and their heart, and "do what needed to be done" (the mission) in that area or respect, so we could know them (and ourselves) at the same time...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think he was chosen and there was an agreement among the three that he would limit himself "just enough" to be a part of time with us and show us "them" and their heart, and "do what needed to be done" (the mission) in that area or respect, so we could know them (and ourselves) at the same time...

God Bless!

I believe we are in agreement then. This is rare. Most I talk with believe Jesus did not have His own power during His Earthly ministry and He relied soley on the Father and the Holy Ghost to do miracles. While it is true that Jesus did miracles by the Father and the Holy Spirit, Jesus also had power of His own during His Earthly ministry. I believe He simply limited His own power of Omniscience (i.e. He suppressed it).

Anyways, may God bless you, too;
And may you please be well.

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe we are in agreement then. This is rare. Most I talk with believe Jesus did not have His own power during His Earthly ministry and He relied soley on the Father and the Holy Ghost to do miracles. While it is true that Jesus did miracles by the Father and the Holy Spirit, Jesus also had power of His own during His Earthly ministry. I believe He simply limited His own power of Omniscience (i.e. He suppressed it).

Anyways, may God bless you, too;
And may you please be well.

Thanks very much Jason,

God richly Bless You as well...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks very much Jason,

God richly Bless You as well...

*Gives you a big macho man hug in the Lord*

 

[DamianWarS]

Remember "In the beginning" in Hebrew, can also mean "Behold a cross" which denotes sacrifice of some sort or in some way...

ahh... not quite

 

[Neogaia777]

ahh... not quite

Doesn't matter either way... IOW's it doesn't wreck the truth of what I'm saying and/or have been saying either way... I just thought it was and interesting side note...

And, if you had read the thread, you'd know this has already been addressed in post #5 here: Questions about the Nicene Creed and some Christian forum rules about beliefs...?

But, is what I heard wrong then...?

God Bless!

 

[DamianWarS]

But, is what I heard wrong then...?

Yes

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes

Just "Yes" huh...? and "why is that"...? Cause "you say so"...? Do you know, or do you have proof that it is wrong, or if so, can you prove it, or provide the proof or evidence that it is wrong..?

God Bless!

 

[DamianWarS]

Just "Yes" huh...? and "why is that"...? Cause "you say so"...? Do you know, or do you have proof that it is wrong, or if so, can you prove it, or provide the proof or evidence that it is wrong..?

God Bless!

It seems you need to do the convincing as I can no more prove that "In the beginning" can/cannot also mean "Behold a cross" than I can prove it can/cannot also mean "a coconut". Yet it doesn't mean the latter and no further proof is necessary, you yourself are not sure where you heard it nor can you verify it.

 

[Neogaia777]

It seems you need to do the convincing as I can no more prove that "In the beginning" can/cannot also mean "Behold a cross" than I can prove it can/cannot also mean "a coconut". Yet it doesn't mean the latter and no further proof is necessary, you yourself are not sure where you heard it nor can you verify it.

It's and insignificant point, like I said, and I was only wondering if you could prove it wrong, but, since you can't, then I'm not here to waste my time and I've got better things to do, than argue with you over insignificant points that do not matter to what I am saying or trying to prove so...

God Bless!

 

[Doveaman]

We are not allowed here on Christian forums to have or hold or express any beliefs that would go against the Nicene Creed, so, I have a few questions about it...?

I nearly agree with all of it, and I actually do think I do agree with all of it, and the parts I have questions about I bolded and commented on, and would like some clarification on... As it has been said that some of my beliefs may go against it, and I'm trying to figure out if that is really true or not...?

The Nicene Creed
We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

I have a question too:

"We believe in...the Holy Spirit...Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified;" (Matthew 3:16-17) -- Nicene Creed

Where in Matthew 3:16-17 does it say the Holy Spirit is glorified along with the Father and Son?

Matthew 3:16-17 does not confirm that statement.

 

[Der Alte]

... Remember "In the beginning" in Hebrew, can also mean "Behold a cross" which denotes sacrifice of some sort or in some way...

I doubt that is correct.
The Hebrew words translated in the beginning created בראשׁית ברא
The definition of the word translated "beginning."

H7225 רֵאשִׁית rê'shı̂yth ray-sheeth'

From the same as H7218; the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Total KJV occurrences: 51​

The definition of the word translated "created."
H1254 בָּרָא bârâ' baw-raw'

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
Total KJV occurrences: 54​

Note the definitions "behold" and "cross." are not part of the definitions
Here is the Hebrew word for "behold." It has nothing in common with either "barisheeth" or "bara."

H2009 הִנֵּה hinnêh hin-nay' Prolonged for H2005; lo!: - behold, lo, see.
Total KJV occurrences: 1060​