Questions about the Baha'i

[smaneck]

Bahauallah predicted a particular turkey sultan will be overthrown and it happened after about 10 years.It is hard to think it as prophecy cause most of the turkey rulers lost their power at that time.It will be an intelligent deduction and nothing more.

Most turkey rulers? There was only one. Baha'u'llah was addressing the head of the Ottoman Empire.

If he gave some approximate date or even month of a particular year it would be an impressive prophecy.

That is not and never was the function of prophesy. Prophets are not fortune tellers, they are warners. Baha'u'llah wrote these letters to the kings and rulers, not only to proclaim his message but to warn them of the path they are headed.

 

[smaneck]

Do you have a link to this prophecy, its prediction date and the Sultan in question?

I believe the prophecy in question is the one contained in the Lawh-i Fuad. Fuad Pasha was Grand Vizier, one of the leaders of the Tanzimat Reform, and along with Ali Pasha was responsible for Baha'u'llah's exile to Akka. Fuad Pasha had just died in Paris. Baha'u'llah considered his death divine retribution and predicts the fall of both Ali Pasha and Sultan Abdu'l-Aziz, though in somewhat vague terms:

"Soon will We dismiss the one who was like unto him, [Ali Pasha] and will lay hold on their Chief who ruleth the land,[Sultan Abdu'l-Aziz] and I, verily, am the Almighty, the All-Compelling."

Ali Pasha will die two years later at the age of 56 and afterwards Sultan Abdu'l-Aziz began to try and dismantle many of the Tanzimat reforms. His own prime minister was instrumental in having him deposed and later assassinated in 1876. This would have been seven years after Baha'u'llah's prophecy, not ten.
Contrary to what Rationalt seems to think, the reigns of Ottoman Sultans were fairly stable up until this time, however all the Sultans which follow Abdu'l-Aziz will end up being deposed.

 

[light upon light]

Can you work up some basis for this assertion ?.When you talk about Jesus, a biblical person, it is reasonable to expect the claimant to justify his position basing upon biblical text.It is another matter whether such a claim is convincing or not.

Have been working on a post...

 

[jacknife]

Hey it's me again! i know some religious factors are against drinking do the Baha'i have any codes against it.

 

[smaneck]

Hey it's me again! i know some religious factors are against drinking do the Baha'i have any codes against it.

Baha'is do not drink alcohol or take any other mind-altering drugs for other than medicinal purposes. At least not anything stronger than coffee or tea. Smoking is discouraged but not absolutely prohibited.

 

[Arthra]

Hey it's me again! i know some religious factors are against drinking do the Baha'i have any codes against it.

Yes...Alcohol is forbidden....


In one of His Tablets, Bahá'u'lláh states:

Beware lest ye exchange the Wine of God for your own
wine, for it will stupefy your minds, and turn your faces away
from the Countenance of God, the All-Glorious, the Peerless,
the Inaccessible. Approach it not, for it hath been forbidden unto
you by the behest of God, the Exalted, the Almighty.


"...the use of alcohol is permitted only when it
constitutes part of a medical treatment which is implemented
"under the advice of a competent and conscientious
physician, who may have to prescribe it for the cure of some
special ailment".

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 226)

 

[light upon light]

What prophecies did Bahaullah fulfill?

Countless prophecies.

Just to begin with, Jesus said he would return in the Glory of the Father:

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father" - Matthew 16:27

The name Baha'u'llah, translated into English means the Glory of the Father, or the Glory of God.

Here's one from Isaiah 35:1-2:

"The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

"It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God."

Baha'u'llah was banished and imprisoned, finally being moved to the penal colony of Akka, certainly a "solitary place" on the edge of the Ottoman Empire (now in Northern Israel). He visited Mount Carmel numerous times (just a few miles from Akka) which is the edge of the plain of Sharon, which is now in Haifa, Israel. On Carmel He pitched His tent and outlined the spot where the Shrine of His Herald the Bab was to be built and the Baha'i institutions were to be raised. Now there are terraces and gardens build on Mount Carmel, and the Baha'i Administrative Order is headquartered in a series of beautiful buildings:

https://www.google.com/search?q=baha'i+carmel

http://www.tacomabahai.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bahji-77.jpg

Throughout the Bible, there are a very large number of references to 1260 days. And in the Bible, each prophetic day is to be considered as a year:

"And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years….after the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year." - Numbers 14:34

"And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year." - Ezekiel 4:6

There is probably no more important prophetic number referenced than these 1260 days. It is variously referred to "1260 days", "three and a half times" (each "time" is a year of 360 days, 3.5 x 360 = 1260), "a time, times and half a time" (again, 3 1/2 times) "42 months = 42 x 30 = 1260"

Here are the seven references:

"He shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws -- and they shall be given into his hands until a time and times and the dividing of a time." - Daniel 7:25

"It shall be for a time, times, and half a time that he can scatter the power of the holy people." - Daniel 12:7

"The holy city they tread under foot forty and two months." - Revelation 11:2

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." - Revelation 11:3

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days." - Revelation 12:6

"And the woman was given wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." - Revelation 12:14

"And there was given to the beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given to him to continue forty and two months." - Revelation 13:5

So it is very clear that 1260 days is a VERY important number in the Bible, covered in the Old Testament and the new.

In the lands where the books of the Bible was revealed, the year was reckoned as 1260 (AH) when the Baha'i era began with the declaration of the Bab, Herald of Baha'u'llah (1844 AD). This is also the year that millions of Christians, led by William Miller, were expecting the return of Christ, based on other prophecies in Daniel that were specifically referenced by Jesus as indicating the time of His return:

Great Disappointment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They were "disappointed" because they looked up into the sky for Jesus to return in that year. But maybe that is because He "returned" in the same way Elijah "returned" before the coming of the Messiah, instead of flying down from outer space the way many Christians imagined would happen.

 

[Arthra]

After Naw-Ruz or Baha'i New Year which was on March 21st.. WE have what we call Ridvan! Ridvan means "paradise"... in a place called the Garden of Ridvan just outside the city of Baghdad in 1863 Baha'u'llah declared He was "Him Whom God would make manifest" promised by the Bab ("Gate). Baha'u'llah had been imprisoned in Teheran and was later exiled by the Shah to Baghdad...while in exile some of the Persian authorities prevailed on the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire to summon Baha'u'llah to Istanbul as they were apprehensive of His influence around Baghdad ... one of the sites of pilgrimage for Shiahs.

Today Baha'is observe three Holy Days in the Ridvan season roughly from April 20th to May 2nd.

It's also a time that Baha'is elect an administrative order from the local Baha'i community to the national level. Any community with at least nine adult believers elects a Spiritual Assembly that handles the affairs of the Baha'is in that area. The Baha'i community where I live has had an Assembly for the past forty two years.

 

[MissRowy]

I was actually contemplating joining the Baha'i faith before I became Christian. It is such a beautiful faith. Unfortunately the temple was too far away and I didnt know any followers where I live

 

[gord44]

Yes...Alcohol is forbidden....


In one of His Tablets, Bahá'u'lláh states:

Beware lest ye exchange the Wine of God for your own
wine, for it will stupefy your minds, and turn your faces away
from the Countenance of God, the All-Glorious, the Peerless,
the Inaccessible. Approach it not, for it hath been forbidden unto
you by the behest of God, the Exalted, the Almighty.


"...the use of alcohol is permitted only when it
constitutes part of a medical treatment which is implemented
"under the advice of a competent and conscientious
physician, who may have to prescribe it for the cure of some
special ailment".

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 226)

*crosses Baha'i off of list of religions to try.*

 

[smaneck]

I was actually contemplating joining the Baha'i faith before I became Christian. It is such a beautiful faith. Unfortunately the temple was too far away and I didnt know any followers where I live

Ahh, you are in Australia. I think this web page directs you to the local Baha'is there: Baha'is in My State

I visited the Temple in Sydney a couple of years ago. There was a python in the garden!

 

[light upon light]

*crosses Baha'i off of list of religions to try.*

It didn't stop you from trying Islam

 

[gord44]

It didn't stop you from trying Islam

Good point hehe.

 

[Booko]

In nations that have phone books we tend to be listed under "B"

Though often we're put under "churches" Well, it's not like we ask for such confusion. That's the phone company's doing.

 

[Chesterton]

I visited the Temple in Sydney a couple of years ago. There was a python in the garden!

Hmm. Did he, uh, offer you anything to eat? :o

 

[smaneck]

Hmm. Did he, uh, offer you anything to eat? :o

LOL. No, but the guide offered us tea and biscuits. She asked us to be sure not to disturb the python. She said he was just a baby. Some baby!

Apparently those kinds of snakes are quite common in Australia.

 

[Mumin]

-

 

[smaneck]

Does your religion have a book?
A "nabi" or "prophet" received Scripture, on the other hand, "messengers" confirm existing Scriptures. In several verses, when "prophethood" is mentioned, "Scripture" is mentiones.

3:81 And, when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, (saying), "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you (must) believe in him and support him."

Sorry, but the distinction you are trying to make between nabi and rasul doesn't follow from the ayat you posted. On the contrary, this ayat is saying the very heart of the Covenant is the belief in God's continuing revelation and our obligation to follow the subsequent Messengers. Indeed, the Qur'ánic asserts repeatedly that "every religion [umma] has its (own) messenger [rasúl]" (10:47, 16:38, 17:15, 23:44, 30:47). Furthermore the words obey-obedience [atá`a], disobey-disobedience are used twenty-eight times in connection with the rasúl (messenger), but not one single time with nabí (prophet) which certainly suggests that a Messenger reveals Laws which must be obeyed. After all a Messenger can only Messenger if he reveals a Message: "it is only for the messenger [rasúl] to deliver the manifest message" (29:18)

Prophethood is sealed:

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of (any) one of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets.

Now that is a mistranslation. It says he is the Seal of the Prophets but it does not say he is the last. As Aisha is recorded to have said: "Say the seal of the prophets and do not say that there is no prophet after him" (Al-Suyúti)

Furthermore, you are completely ignoring the context of this ayat which was regarding Muhammad's relationship to Zayd, his adopted son, and whether or not the Muhammad marriage to Zayd's divorced wife constitutes incest.

"The verses also said that in future adopted sons should not be named after their fathers who begot them; and from that day Zayd was known as Zayd ibn Háthirah instead of Zayd ibn Muhammad, as he had been called ever since his adoption some thirty-five years previously. But this change did not annul his adoption as such, nor did it affect in any way the love and the intimacy between the adopter and the adopted, who were now nearing their sixtieth and fiftieth years. It was merely a reminder that there was no blood relationship; and in this sense Revelation continued: Muhammad is not the father of any man amongst you, but he is the Messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets." (Lings, Muhammad 213-4)

God says in verse 40:34 about Joseph (before the seal):

40:34 And Joseph had already come to you before with clear proofs, but you remained in doubt of that which he brought to you, until when he died, you said, 'Never will Allah send a messenger after him.' Thus does Allah leave astray he who is a transgressor and skeptic."

Even if it was after the seal, the verse says "messenger", not "prophet".

And I'm not using the word 'prophet' either. I just don't accept the distinction you are making between nabi and rasul as Qur'anic.

In accordance with the definition of the terms "Islam" and "Muslim", all prophets were Muslims, and Islam is since Adam.

Exactly my point.

That's a contradiction. If Bahai accept the Qur'an, that's good, but on the other hand, you fabricated/believe in unity of different religion

It is the Qur'an which says there is no people to whom a Prophet has not been sent and you yourself said all the prophets are Muslims.

and you don't believe in many verses, while God says and intends something else:

Sorry, you don't get to decide what God intends.

11:118 And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.
16:93 And if Allah had willed, He could have made you (of) one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills.

Yes, there will always be those who seek to divide. Doesn't change the fact that God's revelation which has been given to all people is one.

You can not reconcile religion differences, and you can not reconcile Bahai with Bahai, because its founder affirmed that Muhammad closed both prophethood and messengership:

If you want to prove something on the basis of what Baha'u'llah said you really should quote Baha'u'llah, not some radd screed. You can find what Baha'u'llah actually said in this regard in the link to the article I sent you if you bother to read it. He never uses the word 'closed.' Here is what he actually said:

"Salutations and peace be upon the Lord of mankind, the educator of the nations, He, through whom messengership [risálat] and prophethood [nubuwwat] have been consummated [intahat]." (Bahá'u'lláh, Ishráqát 293

Baha'u'llah never uses the terms nabi or rasul in connection with himself. That doesn't mean he believes revelation has come to an end. It means that with the Bab and Baha'u'llah "humankind has entered a new religious cycle characterized by a fuller theophany. In this cycle, concepts like `prophet' and `messenger' have been transcended," The Concept of Manifestation in the Bah?'? Writings - Juan R. I. Cole

What we have in Baha'u'llah is what Christian theologians have called 'reaized eschatology.'

"According to this view the apocalyptic type of future expectation was a distortion, and only the more spiritual `realized' eschatology represents the true position of Jesus. There is certainly evidence in John's Gospel that Jesus regarded the present time as definitive. People had seen the glory (1:14). The concept of judgement is not so much of some future event as of a present reality. Those who do not believe are condemned already (3:18). The judgement of this world is `now' (12:31)." (Guthrie, New Testament 799-800)

I think this fully addresses the issues you raise.

 

[Mumin]

-

 

[Arthra]

I'm aware many Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad is the "Last" prophet but it seems in the Qur'an it says there is no limit to God's words...

And were the trees that are in the earth pens, and the sea (ink) with seven more seas to swell its tide, the words of God would not be spent; verily, God is mighty, wise!

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 31 - Loqman)