Questions about Mormonism

[Rescued One]

I did not say, nor does the Bible, that Jesus is the one and only "keeper" of the way. He stated in John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." He does not claim to be the "keeper" of the way, but claims to be the way.

Someone here on CF once asked me if I didn't agree that the LDS had put their church in place of Christ. I wasn't so sure. Then I later read this statement:

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life"
(Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). Also quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, 26).

and this one:

Keep Faith with the Church
"This Church is the way of truth and life and salvation."

Gordon B. Hinckley
http://www.byui.edu/perspective/v2n2pdf/v2n2_hinkley.pdf

 

[old weatherd cross]

Are mormons freemasons ?

 

[Rescued One]

Are mormons freemasons ?

No, but there are similarities:

Masonic Symbols and the LDS Temple

 

[bbbbbbb]

Someone here on CF once asked me if I didn't agree that the LDS had put their church in place of Christ. I wasn't so sure. Then I later read this statement:

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life"
(Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). Also quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, 26).

and this one:

Keep Faith with the Church
"This Church is the way of truth and life and salvation."

Gordon B. Hinckley
http://www.byui.edu/perspective/v2n2pdf/v2n2_hinkley.pdf

Wow! That is blasphemy to claim the very same thing that God (Christ) alone claims.

 

[BadWolf123]

Ugh! Why did you ignore the main point of my response? Here. Saves me the trouble. I can just quote what I said before.

"Smith did not teach that we would merely become one with God. He taught that a man can become ANOTHER God."

I guess Smith just kinda skipped past the part in the bible where Father says "You shall have no other Gods before me"(exodus) , or the part that says, "There are no other Gods beside me" (Isaiah)

 

[MormonBro]

Someone here on CF once asked me if I didn't agree that the LDS had put their church in place of Christ. I wasn't so sure. Then I later read this statement:

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life"
(Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). Also quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, 26).

and this one:

Keep Faith with the Church
"This Church is the way of truth and life and salvation."

Gordon B. Hinckley

No, Latter-day Saints have not replaced Christ with the Church. The Church, being the Body of Christ, is directly connected to Jesus Christ, as He is at the head of His body. In that same link from President Hinckley, we see that he focused on faith on different aspects of our lives: faith in ourselves, our associates, in the Church, and in God. He also says "There is none other to bless you as your Father in heaven and His divine Son will bless you."

So no, Latter-day Saints have not put the Church in place of Christ. We firmly believe in Jesus Christ as our divine Lord and Savior, and that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that any of us can receive eternal life. The Church, as the Bible teaches, is the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Rescued One]

No, Latter-day Saints have not replaced Christ with the Church. The Church, being the Body of Christ, is directly connected to Jesus Christ, as He is at the head of His body.

All the more reason to understand that we are NOT the way, the truth, and the life. As the Bible very clearly tells us, Christ is the way!

The Church, as the Bible teaches, is the pillar and ground of the truth.

CFR

 

[MormonBro]

All the more reason to understand that we are NOT the way, the truth, and the life. As the Bible very clearly tells us, Christ is the way!

Right, we, as individuals, are not the way, the truth, and the life. Christ is, and as I said, the Church, which is the Body of Christ, with Christ at its Head, is intimately connected to Christ.

CFR

1 Timothy 3:15
15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Rescued One]

Right, we, as individuals, are not the way, the truth, and the life. Christ is, and as I said, the Church, which is the Body of Christ, with Christ at its Head, is intimately connected to Christ.

You can talk about it any way you want. I was informing people of what M. Romney said. Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). Also quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, 26).

Your opinion about the LDS church doesn't have to match his opinion. He said what he said.

1 Timothy 3:15
15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Thank you.

So if the organization that you think is the church of the living God preaches another gospel than the one that was already delivered to the saints, then you have mistakenly put your trust in the wrong place.

Acts 17
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[MormonBro]

You can talk about it any way you want. I was informing people of what M. Romney said. Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119). Also quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual Religion 121 and 122, 1989, 26).

Your opinion about the LDS church doesn't have to match his opinion. He said what he said.

That of course is illogical because I am providing the context for understanding statements provided, especially when I have never claimed that my opinion does not match the opinions of the quotes given. You providing a snippet of what they said means nothing unless one understands the surrounding context of the statement itself, as well as the theological bases for said statements. That is why I have discussed the Church being the Body of Christ, with Christ at its Head, the intimate connection between Christ and His Church/Body, etc. For Latter-day Saints, there is no separation between Jesus Christ and His Body, which is the context necessary for understanding your proof texts.

Thank you.

So if the organization that you think is the church of the living God preaches another gospel than the one that was already delivered to the saints, then you have mistakenly put your trust in the wrong place.

Acts 17
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Yes, I agree.

 

[MormonBro]

No, but there are similarities:

Masonic Symbols and the LDS Temple

And for one Latter-day Saint's perspective on this, feel free to read:

Questions About the LDS Temple Ceremony and Masonry by Jeff Lindsay

(I can't post links at this point, however you can Google the above)

 

[Rescued One]

That of course is illogical because I am providing the context for understanding statements provided, especially when I have never claimed that my opinion does not match the opinions of the quotes given. You providing a snippet of what they said means nothing unless one understands the surrounding context of the statement itself, as well as the theological bases for said statements. That is why I have discussed the Church being the Body of Christ, with Christ at its Head, the intimate connection between Christ and His Church/Body, etc. For Latter-day Saints, there is no separation between Jesus Christ and His Body, which is the context necessary for understanding your proof texts.

I highlighted the part for which I'd like you to give a reference. Where (besides the quotes I provided) is it taught that members of the LDS church are the Way? LDS are imperfect beings who did NOT die for our sins. They did not purchase my salvation.

“And this shall ye always observe to do, even as I have done, even as I have broken bread and blessed it and given it unto you.

“And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you” (3 Nephi 18:6–7).

 

[Huram Abi]

No, Latter-day Saints have not replaced Christ with the Church. The Church, being the Body of Christ, is directly connected to Jesus Christ, as He is at the head of His body. In that same link from President Hinckley, we see that he focused on faith on different aspects of our lives: faith in ourselves, our associates, in the Church, and in God. He also says "There is none other to bless you as your Father in heaven and His divine Son will bless you."

So no, Latter-day Saints have not put the Church in place of Christ. We firmly believe in Jesus Christ as our divine Lord and Savior, and that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that any of us can receive eternal life. The Church, as the Bible teaches, is the pillar and ground of the truth.

That sounds like the same argument given by the RCC.

 

[MormonBro]

I highlighted the part for which I'd like you to give a reference. Where (besides the quotes I provided) is it taught that members of the LDS church are the Way? LDS are imperfect beings who did NOT die for our sins. They did not purchase my salvation.

Obviously. You seem to have an erroneous idea of what I am talking about when I refer to "the Church". The Church is of course the community of the faithful, however it is also much more than that. As the Body of Christ, the Church also includes the laws, ordinances, commandments, and priesthood of God. That is what I am referring to. It is clear that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost work through Christ's Church, as it is His Body (which is the point that I have been making from the beginning, which shouldn't be a point of dispute, as I know other non-LDS Christians say the same thing), for the salvation of souls.

 

[MormonBro]

That sounds like the same argument given by the RCC.

That's great.

 

[Huram Abi]

Is it? Sounds like lip service, actually.

 

[MormonBro]

Is it? Sounds like lip service, actually.

I'm not really concerned with whether the Catholic Church makes the same argument.

 

[Huram Abi]

Of course you aren't. If you bothered to make the comparison, the similarity would confront you with how uncomforting your assurances actually are.

 

[MormonBro]

Of course you aren't. If you bothered to make the comparison, the similarity would confront you with how uncomforting your assurances actually are.

Wonderful. Whether or not another church makes the same point that I am making does not detract from the validity of said point, especially when it is a Biblical point. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church made the same point, since we all agree that Christ's Church is an actual, organized, structured entity. So again, I am not concerned with whether they say the same thing, because it is irrelevant to the point (whether we agree with them on that point or not).

 

[Huram Abi]

The RCC isn't making a point. They are making a claim, without substance and contrary to the evidence. The exposure of the invalidity to this claim made by the RCC carries over to other churches who are making similar claims with no more substance.

It IS relevant because you have not distinguished yourself from the RCC in regard to making and validating such claims. Nor have you overcome the evidence to the contrary.

Here is the point: Your assurances aren't credible simply because you've made them. You sound like every other incredible church simply by having made the claim.

Now, I am not trying to convince you that your church isn't actually credible, but you need to know that from the other end, you aren't doing a good job of selling your church as having not tried to usurp Christ's power and position simply because we've heard the pitch before.

Show, don't tell. That's all I'm saying.