Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
- Dec 12, 2002
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Obviously. You seem to have an erroneous idea of what I am talking about when I refer to "the Church".
Apparently, you have an erroneous idea of the meaning of Christ's words: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me." No where has Christ said, "I will set the example and if you keep enough laws and ordinances, you might be worthy to live with my Father."
He did say, "...no man comes unto the Father, but by me." And He said, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."
John 17:6
The church is not the way! The church is not the gate or the door.
John 10
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
The Church is of course the community of the faithful, however it is also much more than that. As the Body of Christ, the Church also includes the laws, ordinances, commandments, and priesthood of God. That is what I am referring to.
Now you are saying that laws, ordinances, commandments, and priesthood can save. I disagree. Only God can save.
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Romans 8:9
We aren't told to put the Spirit of Christ in a man. That is something God alone can do. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..."
It is clear that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost work through Christ's Church, as it is His Body (which is the point that I have been making from the beginning, which shouldn't be a point of dispute, as I know other non-LDS Christians say the same thing), for the salvation of souls.
Why would a Mormon use statements by non-LDS to make a point? The body of Christ can and should spread the word of God (plant and water seeds), but only God can give life to the seeds. ("And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;")
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
John 5:24
Man cannot create faith. It is a gift from God.
Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(Here again, Mormon leaders and the Book of Mormon reject the word of God.)
The Book of Mormon adds to God's word and claims "for we know that is is by grace that we are saved, after all that we can do" (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23).
The LDS Third Article of Faith states: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel" (Pearl of Great Price: Articles of Faith).
Individual salvation according to Mormon teachings is "that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.134).
"...redemption from personal sins can only be obtained through obedience to the requirements of the Gospel, and a life of good works" (James E. Talmage, A Study of the Articles of Faith, Appendix 3, p. 478-479).
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