Questions about iconography...

[Michael G]

I think it would be fair to say that the cave is both metaphorical and historical. Christ was likely born in a cave, not in a man-made structure. In our hymnography we refer to the cave as a gift from the earth itself to the Master of all Creation at the time of His Nativity in the flesh. It does symbolize the coming of the light of the world into the darkness, but it is meant to depict reality just as much as it is meant to depict the meaning of the event.

True. It is both. It is also there to reference scripture.

Matthew, Ch 4.

12When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he returned to Galilee. 13Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali— 14to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:
15"Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali,
the way to the sea, along the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles—
16the people living in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death
a light has dawned."

 

[Philothei]

Is this the iconographer's den? ..... If it is I want to know where do you order your tempera paints and how you mix the egg yoke in it... Be truthful now...hehehe where are those sites you all order? If they are in Greece I want to know where to go and buy them... or on the net it will be easier ...Thanks.

 

[Michael G]

Mixing egg yolk is hard for me to explain how to do. It is easier for me to show you than to explain it to you. I get my pigments from "Natural Pigments", when I do write in tempera. Most of the time I use Jo Sonja's Acrylic Gouache.

 

[Philothei]

okie... thanks I was just curious if there was a standard way of mixing it, but I guess everyone must have their own way. Thank for the information

 

[Khaleas]

http://www.earthpigments.com/index.cfm

Can't get the Natural Pigments site to work, but this one looks pretty good too.

 

[Michael G]

I would much rather work with acrylic than pigment.

 

[Philothei]

I am with ya Michael.. that is what I do... but for now I am painting crafts for my daughter's school auction... Check my profile pics. But if I get some time I am thinking of an icon of St. Nicholas It is a vow to St. Nicholas I got to honor it.

 

[Michael G]

I am with ya Michael.. that is what I do... but for now I am painting crafts for my daughter's school auction... Check my profile pics. But if I get some time I am thinking of an icon of St. Nicholas It is a vow to St. Nicholas I got to honor it.

Use Jo Sonja's Acrylic Gouache from Jerrys Artarama. It is $1.99 per tube.

 

[Philothei]

I was using Utrecht acrylics all this time I will check them out as I have run out of them. I love that store in Boston it was my "hang out" in college years I used to spend all my extra money buying art supplies from them...


http://www.utrechtart.com/

 

[Michael G]

I was using Utrecht acrylics all this time I will check them out as I have run out of them. I love that store in Boston it was my "hang out" in college years I used to spend all my extra money buying art supplies from them...


http://www.utrechtart.com/

My friend Nick swears by Utrecht paint, I have not used it. Both Matt and I use Jo Sonja's. I also love Golden brand acrylics.

 

[ikonographics]

Painting icons with Acrylic! Is OUTRAGE!

 

[Michael G]

Painting icons with Acrylic! Is OUTRAGE!

You will find the majority of bishops in this country are perfectly fine with icons written in acrylic. A certain bishop from the midwest could not tell if an icon I wrote was written in acrylic or egg tempera. I guess I am doing something right if that is the case?!

 

[Philothei]

Painting icons with Acrylic! Is OUTRAGE!

Then tell me the way to mix egg yoke with the powder hehehe.....

 

[ikonographics]

There are probably as many different methods of doing it as there are iconographers. This is the way I've learnt from Kordis:
1. Separate the egg white from the yolk, the break the yolk sack and pour the yolk into a container.
2.Add approximately the same amount of white wine (or vinegar). You can also add a couple drops of lavender essence if you wish and a couple drops of preservative) Some iconographers also add a little egg white.
3. When mixing the pigments with the egg on the pallette, you use approximately the same proportions of egg, pigment and water and you're ready to paint.
Obviously it is better to see the process than to try follow written instructions, but is is really very easy.

 

[Philothei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P22wNZSiZJA

He does not use white wine or vinegar... I think but "recipes" vary right?

 

[ikonographics]

I think the paint would be too "thick" without the additional liquid and would have the tendency to crack. The white wine or vinigar also give it a nice velvety finish that water alone doesn't and also helps to preserve the egg to that it doesn't go off while you are working. But yes, there are a variety of recipes.

 

[Michael G]

I think the paint would be too "thick" without the additional liquid and would have the tendency to crack. The white wine or vinigar also give it a nice velvety finish that water alone doesn't and also helps to preserve the egg to that it doesn't go off while you are working. But yes, there are a variety of recipes.

I have to agree here. What little experience I have writing icons in tempera (one icon in tempera vs. nearly a hundred in acryllic) you need to add egg and water to the solution, as well as white wine/vinegar to give it a proper consistency.

 

[Khaleas]

I have to agree here. What little experience I have writing icons in tempera (one icon in tempera vs. nearly a hundred in acryllic) you need to add egg and water to the solution, as well as white wine/vinegar to give it a proper consistency.

Yes, the white wine works as a preservative as well as it breaks the surface tension in the egg. If you use only egg the area is very shiny and very hard to correct after drying (we used ox gall to break the surface tension if anything had to be done). If you use too much wine for too little egg the pigments start coming off. We used egg, wine and then some water but you can't really just write down the ratios because it depends on what type of pigment you're working with, some need more egg, some need more wine and what color you're trying to acheive (some pigments don't mix well unless you use a very strong alcohol). You kind of just have to sit down and work out color charts with different mixes.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, the white wine works as a preservative as well as it breaks the surface tension in the egg. If you use only egg the area is very shiny and very hard to correct after drying (we used ox gall to break the surface tension if anything had to be done). If you use too much wine for too little egg the pigments start coming off. We used egg, wine and then some water but you can't really just write down the ratios because it depends on what type of pigment you're working with, some need more egg, some need more wine and what color you're trying to acheive (some pigments don't mix well unless you use a very strong alcohol). You kind of just have to sit down and work out color charts with different mixes.

Yes, you just have to develope a feel for what you are doing.

 

[Philothei]

okie ...you guys I get it.. Thanks. I was not sure of the consistency but it has too be not too watery or too thick... After all it has to be a "wash" ... It is funny but it seems the egg yolk has the fat so it is in a way painting also with oils... while the alchohol in the wine does the excact opposite... so I am sure depending on how much you use of both has to do with the result you get... It it is too much egg yolk it will "crack"... I get it thanks you all. I will start experimenting as soon as I order the pigments... Any good sources for that?