Questions About Hell

[FineLinen]

There are a lot of scriptures about destruction at least 50 or 60. Very few about hell maybe 5 or 6.

Dear Josh: actually there are a few more Scriptures about hell.

Apollumi is the word linked with olethros destruction, and in fact rests on it. In either case it can be demonstrated that both have salvation encapsulated within the operation. In the case of the individual turned over to Satan (no indication he was a believer) but surely an attendee in Corinth, salvation is most assuredly in the final chapter, and his spirit being “saved” in the day of the Lord.

Loss? Definitely, but salvation of his spirit.

Apollumi is rooted in olethros and is used in numerous passages of the New Covenant: again salvation is linked with this word.

Let us listen carefully to the Master of the Reconciliation…

"If you save your life, you will apollumi it. But if you apollumi your life for My sake you will save it."

 

[RaymondG]

God is always love. Could a rebellious soul find peace in a place where God was praised continually? Seems to me that heaven would be hell for that person anyway.

Would one find peace there if they are only there because they were afraid of going to the other place? Sounds like we can agree that this place is for those who will want to be there without the coercion of fear and hell attached to any alternatives.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Questions Without Answers On Hell

Questions Without Answers

1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)
2. If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?
3. Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?
4. As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?
5. If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
6. As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
7. As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
8. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)
9. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
10. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?
11. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?
12. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)
13. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
14. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?
15. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

One must KNOW GOD. Your questions are wasted on confusion. God is not the author of confusion. So unless one knows GOD, they will forever sink into the abyss of circulatory reasoning.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Questions Without Answers On Hell

Questions Without Answers

1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)
2. If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?
3. Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?
4. As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?
5. If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
6. As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
7. As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
8. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)
9. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
10. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?
11. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?
12. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)
13. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
14. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?
15. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

There certainly are answers to
these questions. You make the mistake of thinking refusing Heaven to those who have refused to alter their selfish ways is evil. It is not. You also do not see that windows for good to overcome evil close after a time. You think God refuses Heaven to some out of an emotional, non rational reason. That is incorrect, He is being just. If He let evil doers who refuse to give up the evil they live and love, into Heaven, it would become Hell, a place where evil is freely enjoyed. There is a time for justice, where the perpetrators of evil who refuse to give it up are separated from the victims of their evil who tried to win them away from the evil they loved by goodness. This is then separation forever.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are a lot of scriptures about destruction at least 50 or 60. Very few about hell maybe 5 or 6.

Destroy doesn’t mean death.

 

[WebersHome]

.
I once heard tell of a young man asking his pastor what terrible thing he would have to do to end up in hell. The pastor told the young man that he didn't have to do anything especially terrible; hell requires no effort. All that one has to do is be themselves, i.e. act naturally and they'll get there because hell is the default whereas heaven is optional.
_

 

[FineLinen]

.
I once heard tell of a young man asking his pastor what terrible thing he would have to do to end up in hell. The pastor told the young man that he didn't have to do anything especially terrible; hell requires no effort. All that one has to do is be themselves, i.e. act naturally and they'll get there because hell is the default whereas heaven is optional.
_

Dear Weber: That is truly wonderful.

Not = ou

Willingly= hekōn

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly...

 

[renniks]

Has anyone read the book: " Blue like Jazz" ?
It's hardly a deep theological book. But there is one section in there about his friend's view of hell that I thought was rather insightful. He Imagined that it would be like floating in space in total isolation for eternity, with only your own thoughts. I suspect that is fairly accurate. I suspect that Hell is being left utterly alone in the outer darkness of your own soul. Because without God's goodness, outer darkness is all that exists. Everything good about life comes from him.

 

[FineLinen]

There certainly are answers to
these questions. You make the mistake of thinking refusing Heaven to those who have refused to alter their selfish ways is evil. It is not. You also do not see that windows for good to overcome evil close after a time. You think God refuses Heaven to some out of an emotional, non rational reason. That is incorrect, He is being just. If He let evil doers who refuse to give up the evil they live and love, into Heaven, it would become Hell, a place where evil is freely enjoyed. There is a time for justice, where the perpetrators of evil who refuse to give it up are separated from the victims of their evil who tried to win them away from the evil they loved by goodness. This is forever.

Dear Dorothy: There is a wonderful equation in our Father's Plan!

In Adam1 many are "made sinners"

In the Last Adam many are "made righteous."

 

[martymonster]

-Do you have a verse surmising that God must be held to and abide by the same laws and standards we are held to and must abide by?

-There is the notion that hell is there, and we are the ones who walk ourselves into it. God gives us a way of escape.....and if we choose to not take it...He is not under any obligation to save us outside of our will. What do you have to say concerning this idea?

Oh wow! I don't even know where to start with this!

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Dorothy: There is a wonderful equation in our Father's Plan!

In Adam1 many are "made sinners"

In the Last Adam many are "made righteous."

Many= many.

Some= some.

All = all.

Polus = polus

 

[martymonster]

God does not have double standards....he despises double standards! There is not one standard for he and another for thee. That is how the corrupt leaders of this world, conduct themselves. Christ tells us what God's standards are, and that he himself adheres to them.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The idea that God would hold us to higher standards than he holds himself to, is utterly mind-blowing!

 

[Albion]

-There is the notion that hell is there, and we are the ones who walk ourselves into it. God gives us a way of escape.....and if we choose to not take it...He is not under any obligation to save us outside of our will. What do you have to say concerning this idea?

There is a belief that we sentence ourselves to hell in the sense that we are not sent there screaming and kicking as it were but, if that is where we wind up, it's because, having been people of low character, we don't want to be with the goodie goodie kinds of people.

Rather, we are more at home with the other criminals, cheats, etc. That doesn't make hell a nice place, even for such as those who are there, and that's because (despite everything else) the people in hell are thought to then know, as they did not while in this life on Earth, what they missed out on.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

As we are required to worship God, may we safely infer that God worships us? Of course not! Man is man and God is God. He loved us while we were his enemies, but this does not imply that he loves all of his enemies.

If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

False premise.

Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

Of course not. The purpose of endless punishment is quite the opposite. In fact, Hell for any length of time is not an act of love, which summarily disproves the premise that God loves everyone, which is the underlying premise of the OP.

As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

Only if he loves all of his enemies. God loves his enemies, but is there any reason to think that he loves all of his enemies?

If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

God doesn't sin, ever. That makes him better than the sinner. He's also God, which makes him better at any rate.

As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

Hell is no accident. It didn't make itself.

As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

Endless or not, can love burn someone in a furnace? No.

As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

God is not overcome by anything, but according to Isaiah 45:7 God is capable of such things, like it or not.

Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

It would prove that God could inflict evil. It would say nothing about being overcome by it.

If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

A man slips and falls from a cliff, and God repays carelessness with evil. God metes evil for all kinds of reasons, for his own divine purposes. If he repays evil for evil it would be a more obviously noble reason than most other causes by which a person meets his doom. He has his divine reasons for all that he does.

Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

You bet.

As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

Are we gods?

Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

Endless or not, would torment be overcoming evil with good? Of course not! The endlessness of it is irrelevant to your point. (the endlessness of your line of questioning is a torment of its own)

If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

If the sinner hates God, then hasn't he merited God's hatred?

Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

No. That's why the punishment is endless.

 

[Light of the East]

QUOTE="nonaeroterraqueous,
As we are required to worship God, may we safely infer that God worships us?

Perhaps. What is worship but adoring LOVE! Does God love us? Oh, yes! He wishes so much to have all mankind in relationship with Him that He became man to free us from the sin that prevents this from happening.

Of course not! Man is man and God is God. He loved us while we were his enemies, but this does not imply that he loves all of his enemies.

Every single one of them, right down to Judas. All the bad actors, the violent, the hypocrites, and those who were to kill Him. Look at Him weep over Jerusalem and pray to the Father that all be forgiven for His crucifixion. You seem to forget that God IS love. God doesn't just love, He IS love, therefore, He can only act in accord with the ontological reality in which He exists. He can only love because love is what He is. (*snif snif - phew! This smells of Calvinist heresy!)

False premise.

Not a false premise. God gave us lex talionis to show us what true justice is. True justice only punishes in proportion to the crime committed. And to punish someone beyond - and I mean FAR FAR beyond - what they have done wrong, such as eternal hell for stealing a loaf of bread, would make God unjust.

Of course not. The purpose of endless punishment is quite the opposite. In fact, Hell for any length of time is not an act of love, which summarily disproves the premise that God loves everyone, which is the underlying premise of the OP.

There is no purpose at all to endless punishment. If you are going to speak of legal justice, then you must stay within the framework of justice, and justice does have an end point. There comes a time when justice is satisified and nothing further is required.

Only if he loves all of his enemies. God loves his enemies, but is there any reason to think that he loves all of his enemies?

God IS love. Therefore, all He can do is be what He is - love. To everyone, friend and enemy.

God doesn't sin, ever. That makes him better than the sinner. He's also God, which makes him better at any rate.

Nice dodge. Now answer the question.

Hell is no accident. It didn't make itself.

Not an answer either.

Endless or not, can love burn someone in a furnace? No. God is not overcome by anything, but according to Isaiah 45:7 God is capable of such things, like it or not. It would prove that God could inflict evil. It would say nothing about being overcome by it. A man slips and falls from a cliff, and God repays carelessness with evil. God metes evil for all kinds of reasons, for his own divine purposes. If he repays evil for evil it would be a more obviously noble reason than most other causes by which a person meets his doom.

You keep missing the point. God is GOOD, therefore He does GOOD. All He does is good. But all He does is also in keeping with what He is - LOVE. Therefore, the GOOD that He does is based in love. And love would NEVER do such a thing as burn someone forever in an eternal torment that has no reason nor purpose. The purpose of the "fire" (there is NOT literal fire) in the next life is to burn away our sinful desires and make us like Christ. The concept of eternal hell is based in a human desire for revenge which has nothing to do with how God deals with us, even His enemies.

Do you know how God destroys His enemies? He makes them like Him. They cease to exist as enemies because He radically changes them.

He has his divine reasons for all that he does. You bet. Are we gods?

Not yet. That is our destiny.

Endless or not, would torment be overcoming evil with good? Of course not! The endlessness of it is irrelevant to your point. (the endlessness of your line of questioning is a torment of its own)If the sinner hates God, then hasn't he merited God's hatred?

Nope. God can only love.

No. That's why the punishment is endless.

I am at a loss for words (other than something that will get me banned for a while)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is written God hates those men who have hearts full of perversion.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Dear Josh: Abba is not only the Leader or Author, He is the Finisher. What begins in Him, ends in Him.

Yes God declares the end from the beginning. Isaiah 46:10. "I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled." (Jeremiah 1:12)

 

[zoidar]

Questions Without Answers On Hell

Questions Without Answers

1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)
2. If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?
3. Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?
4. As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?
5. If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
6. As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
7. As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
8. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)
9. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
10. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?
11. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?
12. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)
13. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
14. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?
15. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life."

There you got the answer to your questions. God loves everyone, wants everyone saved, yet people deny Him and will therefore reap the consequences.

Think about it this way. If you have a son and this son of yours murders another man, wouldn't you want him to be sentenced to jail even you love him? If he is a serial killer he has to be locked in for life, and you would agree, despite of your love.

 

[FineLinen]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life."

There you got the answer to your questions. God loves everyone, wants everyone saved, yet people deny Him and will therefore reap the consequences.

Think about it this way. If you have a son and this son of yours murders another man, wouldn't you want him to be sentenced to jail even you love him? If he is a serial killer he has to be locked in for life, and you would agree, despite of your love.

Dear Zoidar: God our Father wants, and has determined, far more than "wanting everybody saved"! His purpose is reconciliation that extends to change and transformation. Please remember the Heavenly Equation.

Adam1 = "many made sinners" >>>>

Last Adam = "many made righteous"

 

[Sketcher]

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

He has mercy on whom he wills to have mercy, at very least for a time.

If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

Not if he is trying to redeem them. Such is the case for many on Earth.

Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

Nope. Doesn't have to be.

As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

I don't believe that the Bible teaches that all mankind are the objects of his love. Those who accept his open invitation to following him and become born again and follow him are the objects of his love.

If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

He doesn't only love those who love him - he reached out in love while we were still sinners.

As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

Please clarify your question.

As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

Sure.

As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

No, he will not be. But if he were to be, what would it matter?

Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

Nope. It would demonstrate his righteous judgement. Evil deserves to be punished.

If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

No. God has full privileges. Man has limited privileges, given by God. The very reason we are not to take revenge is because it is God's exclusively (Romans 12:19).

Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

Deservingly so.

As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

He does, when he has mercy upon people. That won't always be the case.

Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

The Eastern Orthodox have an interesting view of Hell - they see it as sort of a reaction that evil people have to being in the presence of God, while the sanctified believers are able to enjoy it. I'm sure one of them could explain this view better.

If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

Yes, because God is good.

Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

No.