Questions About Hell

[FineLinen]

Dear Smithy: This my friend is the predetermined Will of all wills. It is the final outcome for our Father's Plan of reconciliation for the all, the ta pante. It has zero to do with any of our choices, it is His determined will. I am of the opinion His will ultimately prevails!

Who is going to bend the knee is quite simple, the all in the heavens, the all in the earth, the all in the underworld. This worship in not "at" the Name of all names but in union with the glorious Name. Yes, EN/IN, is the foundation.

One's selfish pride will not stand. Our Father has designed a plan that succeeds. We all must die, and are like water that is spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again>>>

BUT the Lord does not take away life>>>

Instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.

“oti ex autou kai di autou kai eiV auton ta panta autw h doxa eiV touV aiwnaV amhn”

Dr. Marvin Vincent N.T. Word Studies

Of - through - to (ex - dia - eiv).

Of, proceeding from as the source:

through, by means of, as maintainer, preserver, ruler:

to or unto, He is the point to which all tends. All men and things are for His glory (1 Corinthians 15:28).

Alford styles this doxology “the sublimest apostrophe existing even in the pages of inspiration itself.”

Robertson Word Pictures Of The N.T.

Of him= ex autou

Through him = di’ autou

Unto him = eiv auton

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the

Ex = The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

For ever = eiv touv aiwnav = “For the ages.”

 

[Saint Steven]

God doesn't damn anyone; it is humankind that damns God.
View at 30:00 min.

Dr. C. Baxter Kruger - God In The Hands Of Angry Sinners - Session 6 (FGC 2016)
Credits: Forgotten Gospel Conference - www.theforgottengospel.com

Dr. C. Baxter Kruger, theologian, writer and fishing lure designer is the Director of Perichoresis Ministries. Baxter is a native of Prentiss, Mississippi. He and his wife Beth have been married for 30 years and have 4 children. A life long student of psychology, Baxter has a degrees in political science, divinity, and earned his Doctor of Philosophy from Kings College, Aberdeen University in Aberdeen, Scotland under Professor James B. Torrance. He is the author of 8 books, including The Great Dance, Jesus and the Undoing of Adam and Across All Worlds, and recently the international bestseller, The Shack Revisited. He teaches around the world. He is an avid outdoorsman and holds two United States patents for his fishing lure designs. He is also the founder and President of Mediator Lures.

 

[FineLinen]

1. Some persons say, that if they did not believe in endless punishment, they would take their fill of sin. How much sin would it take to fill a Christian?
2. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," why should His eternal wrath be preached to sinners?
3. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," why should it not be supposed that repentance leadeth to the goodness of God?
4. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," are not the impenitent the objects of His goodness?
5. Is not the goodness of God co-extensive and co-eternal with His wisdom and power?
6. As the wisdom of God can never change to folly, nor His power to weakness, will His goodness ever change to hatred?

 

[smithed64]

Dear Smithy: This my friend is the predetermined Will of all wills. It is the final outcome for our Father's Plan of reconciliation for the all, the ta pante. It has zero to do with any of our choices, it is His determined will. I am of the opinion His will ultimately prevails!

Who is going to bend the knee is quite simple, the all in the heavens, the all in the earth, the all in the underworld. This worship in not "at" the Name of all names but in union with the glorious Name. Yes, EN/IN, is the foundation.

One's selfish pride will not stand. Our Father has designed a plan that succeeds. We all must die, and are like water that is spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again>>>

BUT the Lord does not take away life>>>

Instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.

Your right about one thing here.
Every knee shall bow. Even those who rejected him then and now.
I say this a lot...All Atheist become believers after death. Because then the met the one they fought against their whole time as Atheist. These men and woman, will not be restored. They will face an Angry and wrathful God, who because of His justice will punish them for the sins they did. All who sin will face the same Wrath of God. Why? Because they don't have the advocate, the one who met that wrath full on for us, so that we wouldn't have to. What do you think we a saved from? Sin?...No. Our sins are cleansed from us by the blood of Jesus Christ. We are saved from the wrath of God.


It's appointed for all men to die, then Christ.

After you die...it's too late. There is no salvation after death, if you die in your sins. God gives us plenty of opportunity to bend knee, repent of our sins, place our trust in Christ, right now. To pick up our cross and deny ourselves. Many do....Many more don't.

 

[smithed64]

1. Some persons say, that if they did not believe in endless punishment, they would take their fill of sin. How much sin would it take to fill a Christian?

1. Many of those who say that, are already taking their fill of sin. There is no gauge to measure the sin that's in a person's life. You lie...You sin....You steal...You sin...You commit adultery...you sin. You hate Christ...he does not abide within you, therefore you sin.
As for Children of God:
1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth,
7. But if we walk in the Light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
10 if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and his word is not in us.

To summarize. Those of us who are Children of God, have had our sins cleanse away, by the blood of Christ. We have put on Christ and His righteousness has been imputed to us. So that when God looks at us...He sees His Son.
We are Human and we are fallible. Even Children of God makes mistakes and sin, but our Advocate is there for us and forgives us of those. There are times we must confess our sins to Him and He forgives us. There are some sins, we have..that we don't even realize we have. Because God's standards are higher than ours. He expects perfection, but knows we cannot attain it. This is why he sent Christ and another reason why Christ died on that Cross. Because, He was perfection as a man. He sinned not.
He became the perfect sacrifice for us and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation: Atonement. hilamos

We will all be judged on that final day. Those who are Children of God, will be judged by Christ and place through the refining fire. Where all the chaff will be burned away and we will receive our robe and new name.
Those who rebelled against God and died in their sins. Will stand before God and recieve the wrath that they have stack up against them.

 

[FineLinen]

Your right about one thing here.
Every knee shall bow. Even those who rejected him then and now.
I say this a lot...All Atheist become believers after death. Because then the met the one they fought against their whole time as Atheist. These men and woman, will not be restored. They will face an Angry and wrathful God, who because of His justice will punish them for the sins they did. All who sin will face the same Wrath of God. Why? Because they don't have the advocate, the one who met that wrath full on for us, so that we wouldn't have to. What do you think we a saved from? Sin?...No. Our sins are cleansed from us by the blood of Jesus Christ. We are saved from the wrath of God.

Dear Smithy: You evidently believe God's justice trumps what He is (LOVE). You didn't happen to contemplate the significance of IN/EN in the declaration in St. Paul in Philippians? Perhaps you can incorporate it in what you say "a lot"?

The facts are these:

1. We are not saved from a God of wrath, we are grasped into Him by His love for us.

2. The Mercy-Seat is where the propitiated gather IN Him: them and us.

3. The restoration of the all is defined in koine as ta pante.

Every last rascal grasped into Him by the working of ta pante!

 

[FineLinen]

1. Many of those who say that, are already taking their fill of sin. There is no gauge to measure the sin that's in a person's life. You lie...You sin....You steal...You sin...You commit adultery...you sin. You hate Christ...he does not abide within you, therefore you sin.
As for Children of God:
1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth,
7. But if we walk in the Light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
10 if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and his word is not in us.

To summarize. Those of us who are Children of God, have had our sins cleanse away, by the blood of Christ. We have put on Christ and His righteousness has been imputed to us. So that when God looks at us...He sees His Son.
We are Human and we are fallible. Even Children of God makes mistakes and sin, but our Advocate is there for us and forgives us of those. There are times we must confess our sins to Him and He forgives us. There are some sins, we have..that we don't even realize we have. Because God's standards are higher than ours. He expects perfection, but knows we cannot attain it. This is why he sent Christ and another reason why Christ died on that Cross. Because, He was perfection as a man. He sinned not.
He became the perfect sacrifice for us and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation: Atonement. hilamos

We will all be judged on that final day. Those who are Children of God, will be judged by Christ and place through the refining fire. Where all the chaff will be burned away and we will receive our robe and new name.
Those who rebelled against God and died in their sins. Will stand before God and recieve the wrath that they have stack up against them.

Dear Smithy: You had best believe if you keep every last command of God and fail in one single digit, you are guilty of ALL.

We are accounted righteous, being made the righteousness of God in Him is the final outome for the all!

Adam 1= "many made sinners" >>>>

Last Adam = "many made righteous"

 

[smithed64]

1. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," why should His eternal wrath be preached to sinners?
2. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," why should it not be supposed that repentance leadeth to the goodness of God?
3. If "the goodness of God leadeth to repentance," are not the impenitent the objects of His goodness?
4. Is not the goodness of God co-extensive and co-eternal with His wisdom and power?
5. As the wisdom of God can never change to folly, nor His power to weakness, will His goodness ever change to hatred?

First thing that sinners need to here is the Law. Here it in a loving caring and gentle way. To remind us all that God is the lawgiver. Ant the law is perfect for the conversion of souls.

Psalms 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul, the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

It is also the tutor that leads people to Christ.

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

When the Holy Spirit moves and lays conviction on the peoples hearts. And they are willing to hear more and want to know how they can be saved, You then go to the gospel.

Sinners need to know what they are heading to. Hell. It's our responsibility, those who are Children of God to let them know this, becasue we love them and care. Not wanting to see them go there.

Where there is not truth. There is no love.

If you say you love someone, wouldn't you rather tell them the truth about something that can and will harm them. Or are you so weak minded and willed that you'd rather they find out for themselves that trouble, even though you knew the truth the whole time...That isn't love...that's hatred.

God is good, whether or not we repent or not.
Because God is good, He hates sin.

 

[smithed64]

Dear Smithy: You evidently believe God's justice trumps what He is (LOVE). You didn't happen to contemplate the significance of IN/EN in the declaration in St. Paul in Philippians? Perhaps you can incorporate it in what you say "a lot"?

The facts are these:

1. We are not saved from a God of wrath, we are grasped into Him by His love for us.

2. The Mercy-Seat is where the propitiated gather IN Him: them and us.

3. The restoration of the all is defined in koine as ta pante.

Every last rascal grasped into Him by the working of ta pante!

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. the Greek definition is correct. The way you use it...Wrong.

 

[FineLinen]

God indeed hates sin! He has determined not to only account us righteous (justification), but to make us righteous. The process of making is far beyond accounting!

Time for a song>>>>

 

[smithed64]

Dear Smithy: You had best believe if you keep every last command of God and fail in one single digit, you are guilty of ALL.

We are accounted righteous, being made the righteousness of God in Him is the final outome for the all!

Adam 1= "many made sinners" >>>>

Last Adam = "many made righteous"

FineLinen...lol...I told you that many post ago.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

I didn't quote the scripture, though.

I typed, if you are in fault with one, you fail them all.

 

[FineLinen]

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. the Greek definition is correct. The way you use it...Wrong.

Dear Smithy: it appears you believe the steadfast of the Lord ceases at some point. When?

You evidently believe God is only the propitiation for our sins. What about the whole world and those wee words "not our sins only"?

Ta pante is clearly the outcome of our Fathers purpose in the Lord Jesus Christ.

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, in Him the all ends.

 

[smithed64]

God indeed hates sin! He has determined not to only account us righteous (justification), but to make us righteous. The process of making is far beyond accounting!

Time for a song>>>>

God's righteous act of removing the quilt and penalty of sin while, at the same time, declaring the ungodly to be righteous through faith in Christ atoning sacrifice, Through repentance and placing our Trust in Christ.

If you do not repent of your sins. You are not placing your trust in Christ. Therefore you are not justified by God.

As we help our children understand what justification is...because it's a big word for them. We tell them ....Just as I have never sinned. God forgives our sins not just what we prayed for that day, but to the very first one we ever did. And He remembers them no more.

 

[smithed64]

Dear Smithy: it appears you believe the steadfast of the Lord ceases at some point. When?

You evidently believe God is only the propitiation for our sins. What about the whole world and those wee words "not our sins only"?

Ta pante is clearly the outcome of our Fathers purpose in the Lord Jesus Christ.

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, in Him the all ends.

Never said that, because you never said that either.

God's justice doesn't trump His Love.
It's because of His love, he must be Just. You have it backwards.
Just as you love your child. You must discipline Him or Her. If you don't discipline your child...You don't show them the true love you have for them. ( I learned that from my 17 year old son..because I let him get away with things, i shouldn't have. He told me that he felt i didn't care about Him anymore because I didn't discipline him.....Yeah, I was shocked to...but He was right...and So is God)

He is, we are only atoned by Christ. No one else. And that means everybody.

 

[FineLinen]

God's justice doesn't trump His Love.

It's because of His love, he must be Just.

Dear Smithy: God's justice is NOT unending torment! His justice is bathed in His love and leads to change and transformation. We can call it at-one-ment or rectitude but NOT unending horror of mindless punishment!

"To You, oh Lord, belongs mercy, for You render to every man according to his work."

The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:--'To thee, O Lord, belongeth justice, for thou renderest to every man according to his work.'

Justice=

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

 

[smithed64]

Matthew 25:31-46 (NASB) "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Eternal Punishment.

 

[smithed64]

Dear Smithy: God's justice is NOT unending torment! His justice is bathed in His love and leads to change and transformation. We can call it at-one-ment or rectitude but NOT unending horror of mindless punishment!

"To You, oh Lord, belongs mercy, for You render to every man according to his work."

The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:--'To thee, O Lord, belongeth justice, for thou renderest to every man according to his work.'

Justice=

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

It isn't mindless punishment.
God never does anything mindless, He knows exactly what He is doing.

Matthew 25:31-46 (NASB) "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Eternal Punishment.

 

[FineLinen]

It isn't mindless punishment.
God never does anything mindless, He knows exactly what He is doing.

Matthew 25:31-46 (NASB) "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Eternal Punishment.

Dear Smithy:

There is one (1) passage of Canon for “everlasting punishment” (Matt.25). This one single verse is the cornerstone for the proponents of unending punishment.

According to the context of St. Matthew 25 and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.

The foundation for “everlasting punishment” Matt. 25=

1.________________________________________?

2.________________________________________?

3.________________________________________?

4.________________________________________?

5.________________________________________?

 

[FineLinen]

It isn't mindless punishment.

God never does anything mindless, He knows exactly what He is doing.

Deaar Smithy: You are correct. The Father of all father's does nothing mindless. Punishment has a conclusion, the peaceable fruits of righteousness, change & transformation.

 

[FineLinen]