Questions about God. Help!

[1applepie]

I made this account specifically to ask a few questions...

First, background. I am 18 and have been raised Christian for 18 years. The past two months I have been considering myself Agnostic. I have come here not to cause controversy, but to ask honest questions in hopes that I can get many sides and answers to help me decide. I have been turning to many people because I really want to believe in God but it seems every answer I get is something like "It's just Gods plan", "Just have faith", or "We are mortal humans, we just can't know" which I can't accept. So, hopefully some of you can help me. I have a lot of questions so I'll try to explain my thoughts in twos or threes. Also, thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

1. If God created us to worship and have a relationship him, why didn't he just make two or three perfect beings. (such as Jesus) Why does he need billions and billions of people to worship him when he, being all knowing, knew most of them would go to Hell anyway? If he had went about creating beings to worship him in this fashion he wouldn't have to sorrow over his lost children.

2. Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit in the garden and gain knowledge? If this act gave them all knowledge of good and evil, which God has, wouldn't they to have known it was the right decision to follow God? Isn't keeping knowledge from something you create kind of fishy, even if it is the knowledge of evil? It is like a parent acting like drugs don't exist around their high schooler. The parent (or God) knows they will gain this knowledge either way, so why not confront the teen (Adam and Eve) honestly about it?

3. Alright, last question of this session. God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. So, I don't understand the point of earth and an earthly life. If God is all knowing he would know exactly which people would choose to follow him honestly and which wouldn't. He is all loving so it would make sense that he would spare these certain followers an imperfect life, and we all know that he is all powerful so he could do so. Why not just instantly sort out the good and bad people into the appropriate afterlife and skip earth. It's really quite an unnecessary "step" for a God of this caliber.

Thanks again for any input...

 

[Tannic]

I made this account specifically to ask a few questions...

First, background. I am 18 and have been raised Christian for 18 years. The past two months I have been considering myself Agnostic. I have come here not to cause controversy, but to ask honest questions in hopes that I can get many sides and answers to help me decide. I have been turning to many people because I really want to believe in God but it seems every answer I get is something like "It's just Gods plan", "Just have faith", or "We are mortal humans, we just can't know" which I can't accept. So, hopefully some of you can help me. I have a lot of questions so I'll try to explain my thoughts in twos or threes. Also, thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

1. If God created us to worship and have a relationship him, why didn't he just make two or three perfect beings. (such as Jesus) Why does he need billions and billions of people to worship him when he, being all knowing, knew most of them would go to Hell anyway? If he had went about creating beings to worship him in this fashion he wouldn't have to sorrow over his lost children.

2. Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit in the garden and gain knowledge? If this act gave them all knowledge of good and evil, which God has, wouldn't they to have known it was the right decision to follow God? Isn't keeping knowledge from something you create kind of fishy, even if it is the knowledge of evil? It is like a parent acting like drugs don't exist around their high schooler. The parent (or God) knows they will gain this knowledge either way, so why not confront the teen (Adam and Eve) honestly about it?

3. Alright, last question of this session. God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. So, I don't understand the point of earth and an earthly life. If God is all knowing he would know exactly which people would choose to follow him honestly and which wouldn't. He is all loving so it would make sense that he would spare these certain followers an imperfect life, and we all know that he is all powerful so he could do so. Why not just instantly sort out the good and bad people into the appropriate afterlife and skip earth. It's really quite an unnecessary "step" for a God of this caliber.

Thanks again for any input...

I'll give it a shot

1. GOD wanted us to multiply. However, its our 'free will' whether or not we server him. So if someone chooses to 'go to hell' its their choice. And if someone chooses to do the right thing, believe in god, keep his commandments, and be more like him. Than they are going to heaven.

2. GOD wants to be your everything. So I'm thinking he did not want Adam and Eve to think on their own. Just think of overprotective parent, I believe this is what GOD wanted to do with Adam and Eve. He wanted to protect them and be there GOD. If you think about it, in the Garden there was only GOD. Since the events of Adam and Eve, there are GODS. Some people worshipping the devil, some people worshipping zeus, some worshipping budda and etc... there is no telling what people are worshipping these days. This is prolly the main reason why he didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of that tree. So we would have to go through things like this.

3. This is tough question... I think GOD created Earth to be a test of faith. I think the only question on the test is: "Will you follow me through it all?" Some lose faith, and go off the deep end of things. Than we have those that just doesn't believe in GOD at all.

Ok I hope this helps but ultimately its your choice.

 

[drich0150]

1. If God created us to worship and have a relationship him, why didn't he just make two or three perfect beings. (such as Jesus) Why does he need billions and billions of people to worship him when he, being all knowing, knew most of them would go to Hell anyway? If he had went about creating beings to worship him in this fashion he wouldn't have to sorrow over his lost children.

He did make 2 perfect beings in Adam and Eve. It's just that they chose to exercise there own free will, and the billions that have followed are the result of their choice.

2. Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit in the garden and gain knowledge? If this act gave them all knowledge of good and evil, which God has, wouldn't they to have known it was the right decision to follow God? Isn't keeping knowledge from something you create kind of fishy, even if it is the knowledge of evil? It is like a parent acting like drugs don't exist around their high schooler. The parent (or God) knows they will gain this knowledge either way, so why not confront the teen (Adam and Eve) honestly about it?

Because God knew we weren't ready for the responsibility for the knowledge of Good and evil. Even now we can not atone for the sinful choices we make. That's why He sent his son.

Also your analogy about a parent who chooses to bury their head in the sand doesn't work here, about God.
Primarily because it was God who placed the tree in the garden, so it was God (The parent) who Brought Free will (The drugs) into our lives, and it is God who Atones for all who fall into sin. Unlike the parent who doesn't bring up "drugs" because they are trying to avoid the problem. God Not only provides us with a "choice" to sin or not to sin He also provides a sin sacrifice for all the times we mess up. Which fixes any problems that we may have.

This could be better illustrated if you are speaking about a parent who has beer or wine in the house, and tells you not to drink it.. They tell you this because they know your not ready to except all that goes with the responsibility of drinking. And if you do drink they are the one's responsible for your actions.

3. Alright, last question of this session. God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. So, I don't understand the point of earth and an earthly life. If God is all knowing he would know exactly which people would choose to follow him honestly and which wouldn't. He is all loving so it would make sense that he would spare these certain followers an imperfect life, and we all know that he is all powerful so he could do so. Why not just instantly sort out the good and bad people into the appropriate afterlife and skip earth. It's really quite an unnecessary "step" for a God of this caliber.

What if you were one of those who were separated as "chaff," and were slated for immediate Hell Fire? Wouldn't you want a chance to prove to God and yourself that you were in fact worthy? wouldn't you want a chance to prove you could do something as simple as follow Jesus? Or could you except that just milliseconds after being created you were condemned to an eternal existence in Hell because of what someone thinks you would have done if given the chance... God is a righteous God and as such he has given us This life is to prove to ourselves, in whom we are faithful. This is why we have been granted this brief whisper of life. So that on the day of our judgment there can be no doubt... He who is faithful with very little (This life)will be faithful with much!(Eternal life)

 

[1applepie]

Thank you for responding so quickly...
I hate to play the "devils advocate" (pun intended) but I would like to respond to your responses in hopes to further clear some of my doubts.

Your response to number two troubles me a little. "...he (God) did not want Adam and Eve to think on their own." That sounds evil an manipulative to me. I know that with my children in the future, no matter the condition of the outside world, I would not want to hide it and prevent them from thinking on their own. Nonetheless I respect and appreciate your responses.

Two more thoughts I have been struggling with the past couple of months are as follows...

I have been imagining, just for food for thought, that I was in Gods position. Just pretend for a minute that you had the chance to create life with no rules. I started to realize that what God is doing seems wrong to me. According to him, we must worship him or we go to Hell. That is so ignorant and egotistical. The nicest, most giving person in the world could receive eternal suffering because they weren't convinced of a God that demands worship. Upon rereading this I realize there isn't a clear cut answer but I suppose my point is that the big picture itself to me is a paradox.

The second idea I have been struggling with is the reason for the fruit and satan in "snake form." If God didn't want Adam and Eve to have the knowledge as you said, why did he put the tree in the garden in the first place. Why did he allow Satan to temp them. You could say it was a test but God is all knowing. He knew the outcome, and he is all powerful, so why didn't he just not allow Satan there at all? If he is so desiring a flawless relationship with us that he gave his only son surely he would have thought to just not allow evil to happen in the first place. If he had done this we would be walking in Eden with him right now. In conclusion, I do not understand the point of sin in the first place.

Thanks again, this is really helping me sort out my thoughts.

 

[1applepie]

Thank you for your responses, they were extremely helpful...

As far as your response to question number three I would like to elaborate because what you said doesn't fit into the definition of God. You said we need the chance to prove ourselves because it wouldn't make sense to be judged on how someone "thinks we will act". He doesn't think, he knows. If God is all knowing he already knows what we will choose. He knows the future and how we have lived our lives before we even do it. What I am trying to say is why would we have to prove to him what he already knows?

 

[Tannic]

Like drich said, at that particular time, we weren't ready. And as for the sweetest person that don't believe. Please read Romans 10:9 I think. (I'm researching on this and I'll get back with u as soon as possilbe)

 

[ffreds]

You say you want an answer that isnt "It's just Gods plan" or "Just have faith". If you dont want those answers then you are wanting someone to prove God exists with earthly evidence to support it. You and I both know thats not going to happen until its too late to matter anyway. Im 22 and was raised my entire life as a christian as well. A year or so ago I went through the same thing you are going through. You just have to have faith that God did all of this for a reason and that he knows the best way of going about it. If you have lost your faith pray to God to give you faith. I know its really hard especially since you know the arguements againest God so well. Im not sure if I was any help at all but this sounds exactly how I felt. Praying for you man!

 

[drich0150]

(God) did not want Adam and Eve to think on their own." That sounds evil an manipulative to me. (God) did not want Adam and Eve to think on their own." That sounds evil an manipulative to me. I know that with my children in the future, no matter the condition of the outside world, I would not want to hide it and prevent them from thinking on their own. Nonetheless I respect and appreciate your responses.
Nonetheless I respect and appreciate your responses.

Just to illustrate my point, (Not picking on you or your kids) you said: "I know that with my children in the future, no matter the condition of the outside world, I would not want to hide it and prevent them from thinking on their own." But in order for them to "Think on their own" do they need to be exposed to every aspect of this world? Do they need to be exposed to Drugs, Porn, Pedophiles, rape, murder, and the like, in order for them to know this is something they could live a happy life and never experience? Or will your parenting offer basic protection for their Mental, and physical well being?

How is the protection your offering your children from a pedophile different from God wanting to protect us from the wages of sin? The (Parent) knows that life will be better for the child without having been ravaged by sin. Whether it be your child or Adam in the Garden "we" are not able to fully carry the burden sin has on our lives, and a good "Parent" will try and protect their child innocents from the wages of sin.

The fact that we were created completely perfect and without sin shows God's want for the very best for us.

When he told us not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge it shows Gods desire to preserve our purity, so that we may have and maintain a direct link between Himself and Man.

The Truth that the Tree was in the Garden to begin with, and the truth that Adam even had the ability to eat from it shows that God wants us to Have the ability to Choose for ourselves even more than He wants or is concerned for our strictest obedience.. But also know with this ability to choose He wants us to choose Him.

I have been imagining, just for food for thought, that I was in Gods position. Just pretend for a minute that you had the chance to create life with no rules. I started to realize that what God is doing seems wrong to me. According to him, we must worship him or we go to Hell. That is so ignorant and egotistical.

You must grow past the conventional Idea of Hell.. What makes Hell, Hell is not fire and brimstone. Hell has nothing to do with what is there. Hell is Hell Because of What is not There.. That's God. If a person Spends his whole life avoiding God, and trying to get away from him then, How could a righteous God condemn that person to a life of Service and worship to him? We Choose Hell, as an alternative to being with God, and all of what He has created.. Hell is a place without God and the rest of his Creation. It is the one place you can spend eternity away from God.

So to apply this to your statement, God wants people/souls to be with him that truly want to be with Him, and together we can enjoy each other, and the rest of creation for all of eternity.. For the People who want nothing to do with God, or only want "Heaven" because they don't like the Idea of Hell. They Choose to spend eternity with themselves, and all that they can conjure up under their own power. So either you want to be with God or you Don't.. If you don't then know that All of creation Proclaims the Name of God, and the only place you can Go to escape this is the Pit or the Void... Again, How can a righteous God drag someone into heaven Kicking and screaming?

The nicest, most giving person in the world could receive eternal suffering because they weren't convinced of a God that demands worship. Upon rereading this I realize there isn't a clear cut answer but I suppose my point is that the big picture itself to me is a paradox.

"Nice or Nicest" without a standard is only a matter of your peers perspectives.. For example some of the more "humanitarian" things to do 100 or so years ago was to hand out Unwashed, unwanted hospital linens during freezing temps in larger cities, Providing people with "nervous conditions" with free cigarettes, Providing returned route milk (Unpasteurized or refrigerated) to an orphanages so that the babies could be fed.
All of these things were held in great esteem at one time, but in contrast to today's standards they could be considered crimes.. So what was "nice" 100 years ago could be considered criminal today..
But, Here Because God created everything He is The Standard.. And Because he is a Prefect God, he sets a perfect standard.. But He is also a loving God, so He has provided away for those who earnestly seek him to be able to come to Him even in our sins.

The second idea I have been struggling with is the reason for the fruit and satan in "snake form." If God didn't want Adam and Eve to have the knowledge as you said, why did he put the tree in the garden in the first place. Why did he allow Satan to temp them. You could say it was a test but God is all knowing. He knew the outcome, and he is all powerful, so why didn't he just not allow Satan there at all? If he is so desiring a flawless relationship with us that he gave his only son surely he would have thought to just not allow evil to happen in the first place. If he had done this we would be walking in Eden with him right now. In conclusion, I do not understand the point of sin in the first place.

I never said He didn't want to have the knowledge of good and evil. I said we were originally created without this knowledge.. Or why indeed would he have put the tree in the garden, and why was the devil allowed to approach Eve??

Again the reason for all of that, and even now in this life is "choice" or the Exercise of Free will. The long and short of it is God wants us with our "Free Will" to Choose Him With All of our Hearts, Minds, Spirit, and Strength..
But because of the sinful nature of Free will, and our exercise of our will over God's disqualifies us for a relationship with Him.. We have to have Jesus and his sacrifice, which atones for our sin, allowing to have the will to choose, and if we choose God ,Jesus's Blood allows us to have a relationship with him too!


Just kind of a recap.

Sin Is anything not in the Expressed will of God.

Evil is malicious intent to commit sin.

Sin and Evil are not the same thing. Not all sin is evil, but all evil is sin.

Free will is our ability to choose something not in God's will.

The exercise of our will over that of God's is sin..

God above all wants us to choose him over ourselves (or fill in the blank_______.)

But with any real choice we will eventually choose "sin" or something not in God's expressed will.

So, we must have a sacrifice for these choices. Enter Jesus and his blood sacrifice. So if we choose God we can be with Him.

So in this life, we Now have a honest chance to prove to ourselves with the choices have been given, and the freedom to choose God or to choose ourselves or ________, without him (lording over us) or without his presents being felt in everything we do. Just in whom, we will prove ourselves to be faithful to. So that on the day of our judgment we can't said : If I only had a chance, or I would follow Jesus if...

The reason for sin or the ability to choose something not in God's expressed will:

In this life you have an unobstructed decision to make.. Without sin then there really wouldn't be a choice.

 

[drich0150]

You said we need the chance to prove ourselves because it wouldn't make sense to be judged on how someone "thinks we will act". He doesn't think, he knows. If God is all knowing he already knows what we will choose. He knows the future and how we have lived our lives before we even do it. What I am trying to say is why would we have to prove to him what he already knows?

We are not proving anything to God.. What I was saying was that we are proving these things to ourselves.. In that if you were one of the one's slated to be created and condemned to Hell right away, God could honestly, and rightly make that call, but While you were in Hell wouldn't your sense of righteousness scream out for a chance to prove yourself? Despite who judged you, wouldn't Righteousness demand you be given a fair chance? So again this life is not for God, it's for us, to Prove to ourselves in whom we are or will be faithful to if given a fair unobstructed chance. So on our judgment day we can't say: if I only had a real chance I'd..

God is a righteous God, so that is why we are not created and immediately condemned to hell.. Because if truth be told we all deserve Hell.

 

[1applepie]

Thanks everyone, no one ever gave me answers for these...
I am still struggling but this helped a lot. And ffreds, your answer was particularly inspiring. Thanks for your prayers.

 

[Johnnz]

Your response to number two troubles me a little. "...he (God) did not want Adam and Eve to think on their own." That sounds evil an manipulative to me. I know that with my children in the future, no matter the condition of the outside world, I would not want to hide it and prevent them from thinking on their own. Nonetheless I respect and appreciate your responses.

I have been imagining, just for food for thought, that I was in Gods position. Just pretend for a minute that you had the chance to create life with no rules. I started to realize that what God is doing seems wrong to me. According to him, we must worship him or we go to Hell. That is so ignorant and egotistical. The nicest, most giving person in the world could receive eternal suffering because they weren't convinced of a God that demands worship. Upon rereading this I realize there isn't a clear cut answer but I suppose my point is that the big picture itself to me is a paradox.

The second idea I have been struggling with is the reason for the fruit and satan in "snake form." If God didn't want Adam and Eve to have the knowledge as you said, why did he put the tree in the garden in the first place. Why did he allow Satan to temp them. You could say it was a test but God is all knowing. He knew the outcome, and he is all powerful, so why didn't he just not allow Satan there at all? If he is so desiring a flawless relationship with us that he gave his only son surely he would have thought to just not allow evil to happen in the first place. If he had done this we would be walking in Eden with him right now. In conclusion, I do not understand the point of sin in the first place.

Thanks again, this is really helping me sort out my thoughts.

God did indeed want the couple to think on their own, to be able to act freely. Otherwise he created robots. God wants willing lovers not chained followers.

Worship is not the sum of life. God created amazing beings to live within and govern this world in accordance with His wisdom and in relationship with Him. It's not a matter of rules. God is. Following God is in reality discovering the very best principles for life. What we call commandments etc are merely descriptions of who God is. It is not egotistical for a loving parent to want only the best for their child, surely.

Why the test? How else can willing obedience be assessed? A person incapable of doing wrong or prevented from wrongdoing is not a truly whole and moral being, just a cipher an ant like creature just following its programming or orders.

John
NZ

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

You are just where I was before I was saved. I grew up in a Christian family all my life, thinking I was saved. Prayed to accept the Lord as my Savior about six times. And even through all that, I knew deep inside that I wasn’t. I always doubted, because I lived my life as a sinner and I was an evil person.

Yes, you are going through some tough times now. The hardest time in my life was right before I came to God and threw down everything at His feet. What made it worse was I was very, very stubborn. But it came to the point where I was fed up. I needed to know if God was for real or not, and if I should continue serving God, or myself (and the Devil). The one thing I can give you is, never give up searching. Because when you do, even if salvation is there, you will never get it, because you’ve stopped searching or believing.

I guess I can try to give you answers to your questions. I hope they help.

1.) God did not create us to be like robots, He wanted us to think for ourselves. If He created us like robots, we would be forced to worship Him, and if we had anything to say about it, then we would say that He is an unjust God to not give a choice in serving Him or not. That’s my thinking. We are humans beings who think.
2.) If they ate the fruit, then they will know, and will be responsible for their sins. And because they knew it was wrong, but ate it anyways, they committed the first sin ever. Again, they are not robots, and God warned them ahead of time. Many people know that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the middle of the garden. But not many know that the tree of life was also in the middle of the garden, and that Adam and Eve had the freedom to eat from it. God was just in punishing them. Even Adam ate from it, and we know that God had specifically told Him not to.
3.) God is Love, yes. But He Himself is also Justice. That means that when He says the punishment for sin is death, He means it. That means that every sinner will die for their sins. But, since He loves us, He knew the way that we will be saved. It will not be through ourselves, but through the death of His own Son. By His love He found a way to free us from our death.
Don’t you think it will be unfair for a judge to throw someone into jail without a trial? Think of minority report, where people get arrested before they even commit a crime. You really cannot punish someone for something they haven’t done yet. So why would you except that of God? That He should throw people into hell before they are given judgement? I guess He would still be just if He did that, because He knows all things. But we will be judge in light of Scripture according to all we did….and the Word is that which will judge us.

 

[wonderwaleye]

I made this account specifically to ask a few questions...

First, background. I am 18 and have been raised Christian for 18 years. The past two months I have been considering myself Agnostic. I have come here not to cause controversy, but to ask honest questions in hopes that I can get many sides and answers to help me decide. I have been turning to many people because I really want to believe in God but it seems every answer I get is something like "It's just Gods plan", "Just have faith", or "We are mortal humans, we just can't know" which I can't accept. So, hopefully some of you can help me. I have a lot of questions so I'll try to explain my thoughts in twos or threes. Also, thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

1. If God created us to worship and have a relationship him, why didn't he just make two or three perfect beings. (such as Jesus) Why does he need billions and billions of people to worship him when he, being all knowing, knew most of them would go to Hell anyway? If he had went about creating beings to worship him in this fashion he wouldn't have to sorrow over his lost children.

2. Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit in the garden and gain knowledge? If this act gave them all knowledge of good and evil, which God has, wouldn't they to have known it was the right decision to follow God? Isn't keeping knowledge from something you create kind of fishy, even if it is the knowledge of evil? It is like a parent acting like drugs don't exist around their high schooler. The parent (or God) knows they will gain this knowledge either way, so why not confront the teen (Adam and Eve) honestly about it?

3. Alright, last question of this session. God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. So, I don't understand the point of earth and an earthly life. If God is all knowing he would know exactly which people would choose to follow him honestly and which wouldn't. He is all loving so it would make sense that he would spare these certain followers an imperfect life, and we all know that he is all powerful so he could do so. Why not just instantly sort out the good and bad people into the appropriate afterlife and skip earth. It's really quite an unnecessary "step" for a God of this caliber.

Thanks again for any input...

Sirach
Chapter 3:​

21 What is committed to you, attend to; for what is hidden is not your concern. 22 With what is too much for you meddle not, when shown things beyond human understanding. 23 Their own opinion has misled many, and false reasoning unbalanced their judgment.

If it is your TRUE desire to be a part of GOD'S KINDOM then there's but ONE WAY!


GIVING IT ALL TO GOD




GOD demands that you give HIM your WHOLE heart, mind, strength, and soul. That means you go in prayer and tell GOD that you will do this and from that moment on seek GOD in all your decisions. Then pick up GOD'S ROAD MAP to the KINGDOM of ALMIGHTY GOD ( BIBLE ) and start reading the NEW TESTIMENT till the next time you read it you will already know what IT'S going to say. For then it's locked in your heart to draw from for the rest of your life. You will NEVER be sorry you did.


After this is complete GOD will know. For HE searches the heart. HE will then send HIS HOLY SPIRIT ( BORN AGAIN- SAVED ). For it is then that you shall receive the MISSION GOD has for just you and supply all your needs, even what you have not the ability to have.


Do yourself a BIG FAVOR and Start right now!!!


steven