Questioning the basis for the debate.

[Zadok7000]

Have patience with me as I ask...

Revelation 16 describes bowls of wrath.
1. sores on those with mark
2. Sea turned to blood
3. Rivers and streams turned to blood
4. Sun scorches
5. Darkness
6. Euphrates dries up, demons, "Behold, I come like a thief"
7. It is finished...hail, earthquake. Jesus returns.

Jesus returns at the 7th Trumpet, Jen. All those things above transpire "in the days of the voice of the 7th angel". There is "time no longer". The Wrath of God is Him making War on His enemies. The Elect are gathered to his barn on Mt. Zion. NOBODY LEAVES THE EARTH.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Jesus returns at the 7th Trumpet, Jen. All those things above transpire "in the days of the voice of the 7th angel". There is "time no longer". The Wrath of God is Him making War on His enemies. The Elect are gathered to his barn on Mt. Zion. NOBODY LEAVES THE EARTH.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come

So we understand that the 7th seal is the 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet is the 7 bowls.

1. Seal
2. Seal
3. Seal
4. Seal
5. Seal
6. Seal
7. Seal - trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet-(bowl, bowl, bowl, bowl, bowl,bowl, bowl)

So, basically the seventh seal contains the trumpets and bowls.

What is interesting is that the sixth seal is sun ,moon, stars, earthquake and people hiding and actually saying the Day of Wrath has come.
So the sixth seal is beginning of Day of wrath and seventh seal is the trumpets and bowls...i.e..wrath.

The fifth seal has people being given white robes.

Before the 7th seal is opened (which is the trumpets and bowls), 144,000 are sealed on earth and theres a multitude in heaven standing before Jesus. Go figure.

Jesus doesn't physically return to the earth until the 7th seal is complete (which contains the bowls and trumpets). The 6th seal begins wrath. Rev 6 literally says this. So we have been resurrected and have entered those rooms prepared for us before 6th seal since we are to be there until wrath passes by.

 

[Zadok7000]

So we understand that the 7th seal is the 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet is the 7 bowls.

I don't understand it that way at all.
The Seals = The Seal of God in the forehead. They are the advanced knowledge of the Trumpets. The Trumpets are the actual events; the Vials of Wrath occur within the 7th trumpet, yes. After the 7th Trumpet, there is "time no longer" - it is the Last Trump.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I don't understand it that way at all.
The Seals = The Seal of God in the forehead. They are the advanced knowledge of the Trumpets. The Trumpets are the actual events; the Vials of Wrath occur within the 7th trumpet, yes. After the 7th Trumpet, there is "time no longer" - it is the Last Trump.

Well, don't you find it interesting that the seals of Rev are the same things the Jesus mentioned in Matt 24?

Wars, famines, plagues, pestilences, persecution/martyrdom...

Jesus said these are the beginnings of birth pains...birth pains (increasing frequency and intensity)...and have been going on since Christ left in the way He said they would.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Seals 1-5), then (Seal #6-->) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Zadok7000]

Let's continue this in the dedicated thread.

 

[rdclmn72]

There seems to be a problem with two trumpets and how it conflicts with seven.
It would only be a problem if they are assumed to be a part of the same process.

The seventh trumpet.
Its stated three times as the end of judgement.
The Mystery of God is consumated.
There are several events, like those visions that introduce each phase, defy any chronology.
The departure of the church is also described as a mystery.

One possibility is the use of the ritual year as it applies to the prophetic timeframe.
Being a part of the law, its expected to be fulfilled.

When you have the situation described in Joshua, you have an intervention that comes for one of two reasons;
A manifestation of mercy
The setting of precedent.

Notice that the rules for the use of trumpets doesn't change and that the same rules are expected to be fulfilled in the future.
The difference is that of the last days where on the basis of whats written in the same law, God once again follows his own precedent in the last days and uses seven.

So, if the use of seven creates chronological problems, the use of two, if totally removed from revelations, shouldn't be a problem