Question??

[AlabamaMan]

Ok brother's and sister's I have a question. I hesitate to ask it because I know how strongly some people feel about this. Please, let's keep the discussion orderly.

My question has to deal with women in church. All of my life I have heard that women should only wear dresses to church. My mother was raised where she had to wear dresses all the time and only when she got older did she decide to start wearing pants. My question is this, is this biblical in your eyes and please if it is give me some scriptures to support it.

I myself feel its more of a man made law to try and represent holiness, but to me holiness starts in the heart and when its holy then the rest of you will be holy. I would love as much input on this as I can get. Thanks.

 

[Trish1947]

The only thing that I seen in the Bible concerning womens dress is the plaiting of the hair and bangles. Which has nothing to do with Holiness. But, like I heard a minister say, If the barn needs painting, then paint it. I find nothing that talks about dresses. We also are to look on the heart of people, Not what they are dressed in.

 

[Jim B]

Hey A. I would be surprised if you got any positive response to this (i.e., anyone agreeing that women should only wear dresses to church). Even the women in Jesus day did not wear dresses. They wore robes ... just like the men.

You might ask this question on a UPC forum somewhere and let us know what they say. Just a suggestion.

\o/

 

[clinzey]

holiness starts in the heart and when its holy then the rest of you will be holy.

This is a pretty good way to look at it. Most of the Bible's rules of gender behavior have more to do with socio-cultural mores than spiritual principle. And my mother (a member of the clergy) and my wife would kill me if I started insisting they always wear dresses to church!

 

[cherokeehippie]

I used to have have book on Jewish people in the different middle eastern countries, the Sephardim, morroco, etc. It was really a cool book--it had old pictures and how the people were dressed, etc, early 1900's and late 1800's, etc. I wish I still had that book. There were some middle eastern Jewish women in one picture that I noticed, they were wearing tunics over baggy pants!!! AH! I wish I still had that book to show to some of the real traditional types here in Mt. View!! (by the way, I one time brought my very long yemenite shofar to a church here in town and had an old woman tell me it was the devil's instrument!!!!) I've always hated wearing a dress--I felt naked in a dress and as a child, I somehow thought that's what they(churches) wanted women to do, wear a dumb dress and feel naked and shameful in them. Lara

 

[AlabamaMan]

JimB, I would ask on a UPC forum, but I am not looking for their view, I am looking for the view of charismatics here at CF. My grandmother and mother were pentecostal holiness, and the way you dressed was really looked at. I just want to see if anyone here believes it. I don't want them to feel singled out, or feel that I am coming against them, but I really would like to see what verses they use to back up this claim. So this is the best place to do that. God bless each one of you and thank you for your responses.

 

[enoch son]

"Who the son set free is free indeed." I only see a authority issue in the word. I believe it states there a headship in these matter's.

 

[Jim B]

JimB, I would ask on a UPC forum, but I am not looking for their view, I am looking for the view of charismatics here at CF. My grandmother and mother were pentecostal holiness, and the way you dressed was really looked at. I just want to see if anyone here believes it. I don't want them to feel singled out, or feel that I am coming against them, but I really would like to see what verses they use to back up this claim. So this is the best place to do that. God bless each one of you and thank you for your responses.

From my Pentecostal days in a holier-than-God congregation the scripture most often used to justify women not wearing trousers was

Deuteronomy 22:5

”The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” (KJV, of course) Meaning, of course, that a woman cannot wear trousers and a, I guess, a Scotsman cannot wear a kilt. And anyhow, in Jesus' day women wore robes (just like men). Go figure.​

Of course verse 8 says

“When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.”​

But that was ignored. And verse 9 said

“Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.”​

But that was ignored. And verse 11 said

“Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.”​

But that was ignored. And verse 12 said

“Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself.”​

And that was ignored.



Logic doesn't work in these situations (take it from my bruised self), much less scripture.

\o/

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Ok brother's and sister's I have a question. I hesitate to ask it because I know how strongly some people feel about this. Please, let's keep the discussion orderly.

My question has to deal with women in church. All of my life I have heard that women should only wear dresses to church. My mother was raised where she had to wear dresses all the time and only when she got older did she decide to start wearing pants. My question is this, is this biblical in your eyes and please if it is give me some scriptures to support it.

I myself feel its more of a man made law to try and represent holiness, but to me holiness starts in the heart and when its holy then the rest of you will be holy. I would love as much input on this as I can get. Thanks.

I had a holiness preacher tell me that the main reason he promoted such dress was to let the world know who and what we are.
We are a strange and alien people. If we walk in love and in the light of the word, we are going to be considered "wierd".
I had a mother in law who exactly matches your story. In her 70s she finally started wearing pants and cut her hair back for the first time in decades.
As long as it is not done for legalistic reasons, I see nothing wrong with these things. It does concern me when churches turn legalistic and try to put down others because of outward appearances.

 

[Svt4Him]

If it will send one to hell, it's sin. If they believe it's sin, and they do it anyway, it may be sin to them, but there is nothing that will support this view that it's wrong.

 

[Andrew]

Ok brother's and sister's I have a question. I hesitate to ask it because I know how strongly some people feel about this. Please, let's keep the discussion orderly.

My question has to deal with women in church. All of my life I have heard that women should only wear dresses to church. My mother was raised where she had to wear dresses all the time and only when she got older did she decide to start wearing pants. My question is this, is this biblical in your eyes and please if it is give me some scriptures to support it.

I myself feel its more of a man made law to try and represent holiness, but to me holiness starts in the heart and when its holy then the rest of you will be holy. I would love as much input on this as I can get. Thanks.

What abt the men then?
Religion always targets women -- make-up, hairdo, dressing etc. Satan hates women becos right from the garden of eden, he was told that her seed would crush his head.

In my church, the women come with all sorts of hairdo, a lot of them have dyed hair, some have tatoos, spiky hair, etc. some of the men come with dyed hair too. my pastor streaked-dyed his hair at one time. some of the men come in bermudas and sandles (i do that too many times). As long as you are not indecent.

Dont get me wrong, the older women -- working adults -- are well-dressed, whether in pants or skirts -- like working professionals. its the younger teens that are a little more 'hip and happenin'. But they all have one thing in common -- their lives have been transformed by the grace of God, they are in love with Jesus and his Word, and there's nothing religious about them!

 

[mle]

Our church is not very formal. We do not have a pastor right now and the visiting pastors that come to give a message on Sudays usually wear a suit and tie the first time they come and not after that.
We do not have the formal code of dress as many churches do. I do wear clean comfortable clothes. When I wear a dress to church beforehand I think "will this interfere with my worship or anyone elses worship"? For example: I wear bright colours most of the time but when I go to church I try to tone it down a bit so I won't distract or draw attention to myself. I like to wear comfortable sneakers for dancing and pants so that I may kneel or move around freely with out worring if I'm looking decent. I prefer to think of these things before hand so when I'm worshiping my focus can be on Jesus, not what I'm wearing.
I guess, when in Rome do as Romans do. If I was attending a church where dresses were important I would try to dress acording to that assemblies standard.
I went to a church in our community where all the women wore hats to the service. I had a bare head. I did not know that was the custom.
Customs are exactly what all these things are. There is nothing wrong with culture and doing things in a certain way until it becomes and idol. God is a jealous God who will not have any other gods before Him.

 

[Jim B]

Here’s another observation.

External holiness (man-ufactured righteousness), apart from its condemnation by scripture (see Matt.23) is also a method by which controlling people in spiritual authority can monitor the level their control over others. If you impose certain visible rules and regulations on people you can screen the “quality” of their submission to your authority. Tell women they cannot wear slacks and when they show up in chinos you can immediately spot “rebellion.” Tell a man he must wear a suit and tie on the church platform and when he mounts the podium in a Hawaiian shirt, you will immediate know he is stepping out of line, rejecting your power over him.

That’s why you see legalisms and external holiness most prominent in groups, cults, and denominations where the leader (pastor, prophet, apostle, etc.) is granted or assumes more authority than he/she is scripturally entitled.

\o/

 

[Henhouse]

Ok brother's and sister's I have a question. I hesitate to ask it because I know how strongly some people feel about this. Please, let's keep the discussion orderly.

My question has to deal with women in church. All of my life I have heard that women should only wear dresses to church. My mother was raised where she had to wear dresses all the time and only when she got older did she decide to start wearing pants. My question is this, is this biblical in your eyes and please if it is give me some scriptures to support it.

I myself feel its more of a man made law to try and represent holiness, but to me holiness starts in the heart and when its holy then the rest of you will be holy. I would love as much input on this as I can get. Thanks.

I think a woman should wear dresses ALL the time. (Extreme, I know...)


Deut:22:5: The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(Now, I admit this is open to interpretation, and there are pants that aren't 'manly' at all; I try to err on the side of caution.)

I'd looked at other verses in the NT, but I can't find it now.
Maybe someone has already mentioned it anyway.

 

[clinzey]

Deut:22:5: The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(Now, I admit this is open to interpretation, and there are pants that aren't 'manly' at all; I try to err on the side of caution.)

But you're talking about a verse that was written when nobody wore pants, or suits, or ties, or...need I go on?

 

[Jim B]

I think a woman should wear dresses ALL the time. (Extreme, I know...)


Deut:22:5: The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(Now, I admit this is open to interpretation, and there are pants that aren't 'manly' at all; I try to err on the side of caution.)

HH, please read post #8 in this thread and tell me if you think it is alright to obey verse 5 and ignore the other verses in Deut. 22?

\o/

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I think a woman should wear dresses ALL the time. (Extreme, I know...)


Deut:22:5: The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(Now, I admit this is open to interpretation, and there are pants that aren't 'manly' at all; I try to err on the side of caution.)

I'd looked at other verses in the NT, but I can't find it now.
Maybe someone has already mentioned it anyway.

There is a very big difference between pants made for men and pants made for woman. Also, when that verse was written, as another poster pointed out, everyone, men and women wore robes. So it would be logical to think that there were men's robes and women's robes and the two did not cross.

I've heard too, but have no backup for it, that it was a women who invented pants by cutting her dress and sewing up the insides so she could better work in the fields.

I was once very rudely treated by a man on a bus whom I had attempted to start a conversation with. He was reading his Bible and I asked him about it and he snapped at me. He told me I was sinning because I was wearing pants and was just very rude. He embarrassed me in front of the other bus riders who'm I had been witnessing to for weeks.

I withheld speaking my thoughts of "no wonder people don't want to be Christians, seeing one treat another as you've treated me".

 

[AlabamaMan]

Here’s another observation.

External holiness (man-ufactured righteousness), apart from its condemnation by scripture (see Matt.23) is also a method by which controlling people in spiritual authority can monitor the level their control over others. If you impose certain visible rules and regulations on people you can screen the “quality” of their submission to your authority. Tell women they cannot wear slacks and when they show up in chinos you can immediately spot “rebellion.” Tell a man he must wear a suit and tie on the church platform and when he mounts the podium in a Hawaiian shirt, you will immediate know he is stepping out of line, rejecting your power over him.

That’s why you see legalisms and external holiness most prominent in groups, cults, and denominations where the leader (pastor, prophet, apostle, etc.) is granted or assumes more authority than he/she is scripturally entitled.

\o/

I tend to agree with this observation. To me(I stress only to me) it seems like it is a man made rule to usurp authority over people.

 

[AlabamaMan]

Henhouse, I am glad you posted. Thanks for giving me a verse to back up your position. I thought that would be the verse that some would use and I tend to agree with Quaffer, their were robes for men and their were robes for women. Their are pants for men and their are pants for women.

I tend to think that verse you quoted was more for cross dressing folks...those who dress to look like a woman or vice versa. MHO.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I was once very rudely treated by a man on a bus whom I had attempted to start a conversation with. He was reading his Bible and I asked him about it and he snapped at me. He told me I was sinning because I was wearing pants and was just very rude. He embarrassed me in front of the other bus riders who'm I had been witnessing to for weeks.

I withheld speaking my thoughts of "no wonder people don't want to be Christians, seeing one treat another as you've treated me".

I am sorry someone treated you so unkindly sister.
You are always sweet and kind... which is the best clothing of all!