Question......

[IamRedeemed]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)
Men wrote as God breathed the Words.

That was the priestly authors of the Old Testament, not God.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Did you find such heresy regarding Christ found in the Word of God? No. Therefore it is a surmise and supposition, not found anywhere in the Word of God and has absolutely no Scriptural substance or foundation, and is a blasphemous idealogy that is spoken outside of Scripture and is still therefore a dangerous path to be treading.

It's not an addition to scripture.

 

[DearRatboy]

It's in the history books. In Rome, a passive homosexual citizen could lose his citizenship. In Greece, pederasty was accepted but adult homosexuality was not. The adult male passive partner in Greece was also looked upon with contempt.

These facts of history may be inconvenient, but that is how it was.

This is not meant to insult anyone, but this is Roman 1st Century Poetry by Juvenal which illustrates the Roman attitude.

"One can't rely on men's faces: every street overflows with
Austere-visaged perverts. How can you reprove immorality,
most notorious man-hole among the Socratic pansy-boys?
Your hairy limbs and the stiff bristles on your arms
promise a stern soul, but the doctor has to mock you
as he cuts the swollen piles from your depilated anus."
(Satire 2.8-13)

Oh jeez, Juvenal. His Satires are, of course, Satires, first off. And Juvenal is incredibly cranky. Yes, some Romans were disdainful of homosexuals--and only the passive partner was considered to be worthy of derision, not because he was a homosexual really, but because he was playing the woman's role and sexism was rampant in Roman and Greek societies. Notice he calls them "Socratic pansy-boys"? Yes, there was a culture in Greece at the time of Socrates that valued love between males. There was well-established mythology in Greece that valued male homosexuality, and not only between boys and men (though these idealized relationships did tend to dominate). Achilles and Patroclus were a hotly debated couple, back in the day. Roman culture was somewhat less forgiving than the Greeks, but in no way did they particularly outlaw or prohibit homosexual relationships. And when/if they did, it's not likely anyone paid too much attention.

Louis Crompton's Homosexuality and Civilization is an excellent place to start when considering how a variety of past cultures responded to homosexuality.

As a cultutral artifact, that's great, and it explains the mistaken concepts some had then and have now of homosexuality. It was assumed all were heterosexual; concepts of sexual orientation did not exist.

Not strictly true, as groups did exist that were well-known as being lovers of boys or men. They would not have been called "homosexual," but they existed as a distinct and visible entity. Book 8 of Apuleius' The Golden Ass contains a fictionalized (and stereotyped) depiction of such a group.

Given the culture it is quite likely the soldiers who crucified Jesus Christ raped him as well.

Going to have to be skeptical of this claim, though. When would they have had the time? Is there documentation of this happening to other prisoners?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Leviticus' passages which are the favorites of the homophobes most likely refer to the male prostitutes.

Referring to those who disagree with your assumption of leviticus as homophobes is rather biased isn't it? Are people calling those who are stretching scripture in ridiculous ways "Godophobes"?

Paul's inclusion of "homosexuals" as modern translations say also most likely referred to social outcast, disdained passive male prostitutes, not unlike the hapless fellow in Juvenal's doggerel.

Thats not even a stretch, its an impossibility up against scripture. Romans1 clearly states that both partners in the male/male sexual encounters were given over to the lusts of their hearts, choosing one another rather than the natural use of the woman. And it speaks the same of female/female sexual interaction.




You seem like a very smart and kind person, please understand that not everyone who believes scripture condemns homosexual sex is a 'homophobe'. I care less what any person, whatever sexuality, does in their private time. Each individuals salvation is worked out with fear and trembling, and truly it comes down to them and God. The thing that many of us here defend against is the false teaching of scripture that is done. If you refuse to recognize that then you may be as blinded as those you are against. God bless you.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Amen. Great post!

Referring to those who disagree with your assumption of leviticus as homophobes is rather biased isn't it? Are people calling those who are stretching scripture in ridiculous ways "Godophobes"?

Thats not even a stretch, its an impossibility up against scripture. Romans1 clearly states that both partners in the male/male sexual encounters were given over to the lusts of their hearts, choosing one another rather than the natural use of the woman. And it speaks the same of female/female sexual interaction.


You seem like a very smart and kind person, please understand that not everyone who believes scripture condemns homosexual sex is a 'homophobe'. I care less what any person, whatever sexuality, does in their private time. Each individuals salvation is worked out with fear and trembling, and truly it comes down to them and God. The thing that many of us here defend against is the false teaching of scripture that is done. If you refuse to recognize that then you may be as blinded as those you are against. God bless you.

 

[jamielindas]

(I posted this in another thread just now too)

My question is... why can't christians stop hating the gays? (I think i'd be great if you stop hating on the atheists too, but we'll get to that).
Fine, i get it. Your religious beliefs clearly indicate we're not going to your heaven. Why must some christians restrict our lives and our happiness here on earth? If I want to commit my life to someone, how does that harm you or your religion or your faith or your ability to connect with your god and go to heaven? Why spend so much time on us and not on all the other groups that you have a problem with? Why not stop muslims from getting married or having kids? Why not allow atheists to be fired for not believing? Why not keep the Hindu couple from adopting? Why the focus?
There is way more in the bible about non-believers or heretics than gays...

 

[Texas Lynn]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)
Men wrote as God breathed the Words.

Oh really? So you believe eating shrimp and wearing mixed fabrics are sins against god? If not, you're just posturing. "Inspiration" does not mean "literally true" and everyone claiming the Bible is "literally true" is highly selective about exactly which passages they really believe to be so.

Christians are supposed to worship Christ. The fundamentalist error is to worship the Bible-as they interpret it.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Did you find such heresy regarding Christ found in the Word of God? No. Therefore it is a surmise and supposition, not found anywhere in the Word of God and has absolutely no Scriptural substance or foundation, and is a blasphemous idealogy that is spoken outside of Scripture and is still therefore a dangerous path to be treading.

The charge of "heresy" is a clear sign the speaker has lost the argument. There is no difference between my speculation and any other. The whining seen above is most pathetic. YOU need to look in the mirror and stop looking out the window. You are certainly in no position to judge another.

 

[Texas Lynn]

When would they have had the time?

I have to tell you in general male [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does not take long to be achieved, maybe 7-8 minutes average. I've investigated numerous rapes and in many cases it takes less than that.

Is there documentation of this happening to other prisoners?

Gee, I don't know. Man's inhumanity to man is staggering to consider but nowhere else is it as brutal as in prisons and jails. There's plenty of documentation of rape of female prisoners by guards. I suppose it depends on the guards and the prisoners. Perhaps you are free of lusts and desires for dominance that others express frequently.

Let me tell you something, not everybody lives in a nice little world of middle class sunshine. I've investigated child sexual assaults that occurred during brief intervals, sometimes less than 10 minutes-it doesn't take long. As for documentation, check it out yourself. It seems you are not cognizant of some of the stuff in Anthropology 101 to have asked such questions.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Referring to those who disagree with your assumption of leviticus as homophobes is rather biased isn't it?

That is not what I did.

Are people calling those who are stretching scripture in ridiculous ways "Godophobes"?

Who's to say what's ridiculous or not? If you want to bait you're going to have to try a little harder.

Romans1 clearly states that both partners in the male/male sexual encounters were given over to the lusts of their hearts, choosing one another rather than the natural use of the woman. And it speaks the same of female/female sexual interaction.

Proving beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly how wrong it is when interpreted in that manner.

You seem like a very smart and kind person, please understand that not everyone who believes scripture condemns homosexual sex is a 'homophobe'.

I suppose there is that remote possibility. Those that ARGUE that though-it's crystal clear that they are that at the very least given their selective emphasis of scriptural literalism to benefit their own ends.

The thing that many of us here defend against is the false teaching of scripture that is done.

That may be what you THINK you are doing but in that arrogant assumption you would be sorely mistaken. You are, of course, not in any position at all to know "false" teaching from "true" teaching and the arrogant pronouncement that you are is most unfortunate.

 

[Texas Lynn]

My question is... why can't christians stop hating the gays?

Please recognize that not all do; in fact in America and many other places most LGBTs are Christians. The churches which advocate hatred against LGBTs are loud but there are plenty of others which welcome LGBT folks and treat them as persons of dignity and worth. The loudmouths and hatemongers do not speak for Christ. They cannot steal Jesus from you no matter how hard they try.

Look for "reconciling congregations"; these are churches which seek to move beyond the hatred and cruelty LGBT families have experienced from Christians. I will try a link to a site which has a list of some of these: www.christianlesbians.com

 

[jamielindas]

I like texas Lynn! I do love me some strong willed women

 

[Texas Lynn]

I like texas Lynn! I do love me some strong willed women

A man of quality is never threatened by a woman of equality. You are quite a senitive and plucky fellow yourself. Thank you for your efforts to fight for what is right.

 

[DearRatboy]

I have to tell you in general male [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does not take long to be achieved, maybe 7-8 minutes average. I've investigated numerous rapes and in many cases it takes less than that.

Uh, okay.

Gee, I don't know. Man's inhumanity to man is staggering to consider but nowhere else is it as brutal as in prisons and jails. There's plenty of documentation of rape of female prisoners by guards. I suppose it depends on the guards and the prisoners. Perhaps you are free of lusts and desires for dominance that others express frequently.

Let me tell you something, not everybody lives in a nice little world of middle class sunshine. I've investigated child sexual assaults that occurred during brief intervals, sometimes less than 10 minutes-it doesn't take long. As for documentation, check it out yourself. It seems you are not cognizant of some of the stuff in Anthropology 101 to have asked such questions.

Your presumption is astonishing. We aren't talking about rape or sexual assault as it happens in today's world, nor how it happens to children and women. That is not to deny that it does happen today, in prisons, and that it does happen today to far too many women and children. But today's culture and standards are not the standards of the Ancient Roman Empire or Ancient Greece, which greatly informed the Roman Empire. And that is not even to say that rape did not occur in Ancient Greece or Ancient Rome--it most certainly did. But it did not have the same cultural connotations or repercussions that it does today. Even the term "rape" was applied more often to abduction, not sexual assault. "The Rape of the Sabine Women" is an example of this usage. In fact, the Latin verb rapio, rapare means "to seize." So when evaluating stories about "rape" in ancient texts, we must consider that the rape in question may refer to kidnapping and not to sexual activity.

Perhaps more importantly, we need to look at the contexts in which we know rape was used. We know rape was used by the Roman military against the women and children of conquered peoples during warfare. On the other hand, conquered males would usually be forced into slavery. There are many ways to humiliate and degrade people, and certainly not every prisoner today is subjected to rape. This is why I am skeptical of your claim that Jesus would have been raped, and why I asked you whether you had direct or comparable evidence. The closest thing I've been able to find is a passage in Tacitus' Histories [3,32] that describes soldiers using rape indiscriminately in Cremona, and that's not terribly close at all. But if evidence does exist, I'd be happy to hear it.

It is dangerous, when talking about history, to make assumptions based upon our modern experiences.

 

[IamRedeemed]

The contents of this post is evidence of lack of study in the Word of God
and the covenants and lack of the leading of the Holy Ghost.

and btw, Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word. The Word was made
flesh and dwelt among us.

John 1:1-14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehends it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Oh really? So you believe eating shrimp and wearing mixed fabrics are sins against god? If not, you're just posturing. "Inspiration" does not mean "literally true" and everyone claiming the Bible is "literally true" is highly selective about exactly which passages they really believe to be so.

Christians are supposed to worship Christ. The fundamentalist error is to worship the Bible-as they interpret it.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Is it? Or is it exposed for what it is? I believe coming to an erroneous conclusion
and then preaching the idea that 'Jesus was probably raped' is heresy regardless
of what you think.

I did not judge you, but the content of your post.
Are you aware of the difference? I am however concerned about you regarding
the dangerous territory you have chosen to tread on as out of the abundance
of the heart, the mouth speaks and the content of that post was
purely blasphemous.

As far as Christians making righteous judgment, we are called to judge all things and
see if they be of the Spirit of God. We, as children of God, do that by aligning what
has been said to what God has spoken in His Word. Those that come in His name and
preach erroneously are to be corrected. How can anything be corrected if it isn't
discerned (judged) to be in error?

1 Corinthians 2:15-16
But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?
but we have the mind of Christ.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether
they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,
exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.


Ephesians 5:11

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
but rather expose them.

Can't expose the works, for that they are, if you don't discern (judge)
that they are unfruitful works of darkness, can you?

Nope.

The charge of "heresy" is a clear sign the speaker has lost the argument. There is no difference between my speculation and any other. The whining seen above is most pathetic. YOU need to look in the mirror and stop looking out the window. You are certainly in no position to judge another.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Why do gays and atheist or atheistic gays or gays who claim to be
disciples of Christ construe preaching the truth of God's Word as hate?

Love corrects. It is not silent as people race down the highway to hell.

The Word of God even says that a parent who won't correct their child HATES their child.

We would be hating you, if you came to a Christian forum, spouted your untruths, and allowed you to die and pay the penalty of the second death, without opening our mouths.

THAT my friend is God's definition of HATE.

And those that do so, will pay the penalty as the blood of those
within the sound of our voice, will be found on our hands, for
not sounding the trumpet warning.

Ezekiel 33:6
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

The warning is this to ALL (for the sake of brevity, I will only list a couple but be assured there is more!):

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And to those who claim they are Christians
whether straight or any other, behold Ephesians 5:3


Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named
among you, as becomes saints;

(I posted this in another thread just now too)

My question is... why can't christians stop hating the gays? (I think i'd be great if you stop hating on the atheists too, but we'll get to that).
Fine, i get it. Your religious beliefs clearly indicate we're not going to your heaven. Why must some christians restrict our lives and our happiness here on earth? If I want to commit my life to someone, how does that harm you or your religion or your faith or your ability to connect with your god and go to heaven? Why spend so much time on us and not on all the other groups that you have a problem with? Why not stop muslims from getting married or having kids? Why not allow atheists to be fired for not believing? Why not keep the Hindu couple from adopting? Why the focus?
There is way more in the bible about non-believers or heretics than gays...

 

[catlover]

A man of quality is never threatened by a woman of equality. You are quite a senitive and plucky fellow yourself. Thank you for your efforts to fight for what is right.

Love your quote-people who embrace diversity need to start posting links to churches, corporations, and businesses which recognize all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

I am grateful to Editorialist's post about McDonalds now I can patronize that business. I may even check out the UMC tomorrow.

 

[IamRedeemed]

People better start concentrating their efforts on embracing unity IN CHRIST and
His expectations of living a sanctified life unto God rather than in the diversity
of sin and those who enjoy it, as there is no fellowship between Christ and Belial
or light and darkness.

Live unto men and perish. Live unto God and LIVE.

See my sig below the graphic for additional enlightment.

 

[KCKID]

People better start concentrating their efforts on embracing unity IN CHRIST and
His expectations of living a sanctified life unto God rather than in the diversity
of sin and those who enjoy it, as there is no fellowship between Christ and Belial
or light and darkness.

Live unto men and perish. Live unto God and LIVE.

See my sig below the graphic for additional enlightment.

You just don't realize, IamRedeemed, how unhelpful your posts are to someone who is homosexual, NOT by their own choice but because that is who they happen to be. You have no idea at all what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes and I find your tiresome and uncaring tirades on this forum to be most offensive.