Question?

[dignitized]

quaffer: what do you call writhing on the floor and hissing like a snake? or crawling around on all 4 barking and howling. That is animism. This "toronto blessing" is far from a blessing it's corruption.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

quaffer: what do you call writhing on the floor and hissing like a snake? or crawling around on all 4 barking and howling. That is animism. This "toronto blessing" is far from a blessing it's corruption.

I call it "flesh reacting to God" And since you are not God, you don't know what changes have been made in peoples lives and hearts. Some of these people you're referring to love God with all their hearts and have been set aflame for him. They've also learned to endure criticism and judgement from others who sit around and judge others based on their own self perseption.

 

[dignitized]

quaffer: wake up and see this for what it is. If it crawls like a snake, and hisses like a snake - bet you bottom dollar there is a snake behind it. God does not change how he deals with His people. Show me anywhere in Scriptures where some one acted like an animal when God was upon them. This is NOT of God.

 

[AlabamaMan]

This seems to be getting a bit heated. I will say this, I have never heard anyone bark or make any other noises. But I can see how someone might say "what did they sound like?" other person says, "Not sure, but if you ever heard a dog bark, its kinda like that."

Not saying they are acting like one, but that is the best way they could describe it.

I pray and ask God is this of you, and he lets me know in my spirit if something is out of place. That's about all we can do is rely on God to show us what is and is not of him.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

quaffer: wake up and see this for what it is. If it crawls like a snake, and hisses like a snake - bet you bottom dollar there is a snake behind it. God does not change how he deals with His people. Show me anywhere in Scriptures where some one acted like an animal when God was upon them. This is NOT of God.

I've already said that no one is acting like animals. . .that's just the way you are discribing it and your discription is incorrect.

 

[AlabamaMan]

/me puts mod hat on

I want to say this publicly...we need to choose our words carefully, always keeping in mind the forum rules and people's feelings in general. This goes for Mods as well, we all have to abide by the same rules here.

Thanks!
/me takes mod hat off

 

[dignitized]

Quaffer: I have seen with mine own eyes and I have discribed what I have seen. These people are being lead by a spirit into these actions, but it is not the Holy Spirit.

AGAIN - Show me justification via scriptures for anything that even SEEMS animistic.

 

[imasharp]

I will just reply with

I thank God that he is there for me all the time and he is faithful. I am glad that we are all different.

I also saw my husband lay on the floor for over an hour shaking uncontrolably. That was wild. I think that God works in different ways. I believe that what I respond to and what you do, might be different.

Let's just all agree that GOD IS AWESOME!!!

 

[dignitized]

The igft of tongues is just that the gift of speaking in OTHER languages. GRRRR. and BOW-WOW are not human tongues.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The igft of tongues is just that the gift of speaking in OTHER languages. GRRRR. and BOW-WOW are not human tongues.

I've never heard anyone say "GRRR and BOW-WOW", except when playing with their dogs.

 

[dignitized]

I will just reply with

I thank God that he is there for me all the time and he is faithful. I am glad that we are all different.

I also saw my husband lay on the floor for over an hour shaking uncontrolably. That was wild. I think that God works in different ways. I believe that what I respond to and what you do, might be different.

Let's just all agree that GOD IS AWESOME!!!

so should we say that those who claim that "God hates f_gs" and those that claim Homosexuality is accpetable to God are both equally right because each respective possition is right for the person having it?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I will just reply with

I thank God that he is there for me all the time and he is faithful. I am glad that we are all different.

I also saw my husband lay on the floor for over an hour shaking uncontrolably. That was wild. I think that God works in different ways. I believe that what I respond to and what you do, might be different.

Let's just all agree that GOD IS AWESOME!!!

God is awesome imasharp. I personally have not had any of said reactions. I did have though an insatiable desire to know God and to be touched by God so as to change. The church I was attending was so changed that it was like night to day. They were stoic in their worship before and after they would be on their faces or dancing joyfully. There were people who were too stuck up to talk to me before, who started throwing their arms around telling me how much they loved me. There were people who were bound up with diseases and fears that would get up off the floor healed. How could I say that anyone but God had changed them.

I can understand people's concerns. But the devil does not free people. . .God does. The people I knew, including me, were set free.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

so should we say that those who claim that "God hates f_gs" and those that claim Homosexuality is accpetable to God are both equally right because each respective possition is right for the person having it?

Max,

This is an unreasonable and unkind response to someone who did not say anything of the sort. According to the Bible, homosexuality is an amomination to Him. This has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

The Bible does leave out a full description of how one's flesh may or may not react to Him. We can see in many instances that whenever just an angel showed up that they are right away saying, "do not fear", yet there is no description given as to what clued the angel in to that fear. Since I don't believe that an angel can read my heart I can only guess that if one appears I'm gonna react in a way that shows fear and/or awe. . .which could be falling or shaking or whatever. I can also imagine that if I get caught up into the presense of God and He reveals Himself to me in a way that my flesh has never experienced, there is going to be some kind of reaction.

The Bible describes how Daniel kept falling "as dead", others are said to tremble and shake. What kind of sounds do you hear from someone who is trembling and shaking? What kind of sounds are coming from people who are in awe?

No one is teaching that this is behavior that is supposed to happen, just that it's the reaction of flesh and what God is doing in the heart of that person I don't know. I certaintly am not going to attribute godly changes in a person's heart to the devil. There are pretty strict words about that in the scriptures.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

They heard words spoken in their languages but what other sounds might there have been?

Could we then ASSUME that there may have been noises resembling vomiting?...I mean - drunk people do that too.
We can assume all sorts of things - but we can only state what we have as fact - and the fact is that they were speaking dicernable languages.

All debate aside. We obviously will not see eye to eye on this. I just think it is dangeraous to assume too much.

 

[myutmost4him]

Reading over this discussion so far it seams to me we should have a balanced view, on one hand we should have the freedom Christ has given us to respond to Him and this can be overwealming to the point that we groan, fall prostrate, laugh aloud, speak in tongues, prophesy, ect. I think the danger is when people start to seek the experience and forget about the other things which may be less flashy like studying, learning, helping each other, spending quiet time with God and His word on your own, ect. I AM NOT SAYING THE PEOPLE IN THIS DISCUSSION THREAD ARE DOING THIS, BUT of all the people participating in services like this on a regular basis, how many are there for the experience? What happens if they are not moved to the point of moaning, laughing, ect.? New Christians who experience these feelings are on fire for God and then many fall away just as quickly...I think because they missed out on learning the foundational truths which carry us through when questions, temptations, and hard times arrive as they always do.
On the other hand I don't know if we can or should judge the hearts of those involved. I will say that my opinion is that these things could and should happen but not in a coersed or staged setting but in a natural way...if it is happening every meeting or every week you may want to take a closer look.

 

[dignitized]

It's not a matter of judging the hearts of those involved. God alone can judge the heart. But let us remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and sincere hearts. The Scriptures tell us to TEST every spirit. I see people embracing spirits without testing them and proclaiming them to be the Holy Spirit. There is nothing recorded in the Scriptures or in the Writings of the Fathers to justify these animistic manifestations are of God.


The Holy Spirit comes like a dove - soft and gentile, quick to take flight. Not like a beast full of guttural noises and writhing.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Could we then ASSUME that there may have been noises resembling vomiting?...I mean - drunk people do that too.
We can assume all sorts of things - but we can only state what we have as fact - and the fact is that they were speaking dicernable languages.

All debate aside. We obviously will not see eye to eye on this. I just think it is dangeraous to assume too much.

Such comparisons are offensive to those whose lives have been dramatically changed. They love God more they serve Him with more enthusiasim and joy. They are leading more people to the Lord. It is sick people who vomit. Those drunk by the Holy Ghost are anything but sick.

 

[LeeS]

It's not a matter of judging the hearts of those involved. God alone can judge the heart. But let us remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and sincere hearts. The Scriptures tell us to TEST every spirit. I see people embracing spirits without testing them and proclaiming them to be the Holy Spirit. There is nothing recorded in the Scriptures or in the Writings of the Fathers to justify these animistic manifestations are of God.


The Holy Spirit comes like a dove - soft and gentile, quick to take flight. Not like a beast full of guttural noises and writhing.

Congratualations Br. Max, you have successfully told people they are going to hell because of the way their flesh reacts to the Holy Spirit. So much for being saved by grace ey?

 

[dignitized]

Lee: who said anything about going to hell? And who says it's the Holy Spirit they are reacting to?

 

[LeeS]

Lee: who said anything about going to hell? And who says it's the Holy Spirit they are reacting to?

You did when you said "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

And as far as who says it's the Holy Spirit? Can you prove it's not? When I say proof I'm not asking for what you see, hear, or have read or been told, but proof. Not what you think scripure says, but proof. Proof that these people love God more because of demons. Proof that these people are healed by demons. Proof that these people have not only learned but practice forgiveness because of demons. Gosh darnit Br Max, the way you describe it the devil sounds like he's doing more beneficial things for people than Jesus. What a strange thing that is.

Did not Jesus say that a house devided against itself could not stand? Yet you have the house of the devil standing quite well with them working against themselves. What would it benefit the kingdom of hell to bring more people to Jesus?

Ah, but this is where you say, "who say's their saved? Right?