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Question - WHY PAUL?

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kmolson

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Ken what is so hard to understand about whosoever believeth?

Billy <><
Hi Billy:

Let us suppose that you have a terminal illness, and there is a doctor who has the cure for your terminal illness and you believe in that doctor, but unless you take the medicine that the doctor prescribes, you are going to die of your terminal illness.

Ken.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hi Yeshuasavedme

Curious,
Why do you think Jesus
spoke to this woman as such?
Matthew 15:23-26
23 But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and besought him, saying,
Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said,
It is not meet to take the children's bread,
and to cast it to dogs.

sunlover
I wrote this elsewhere and quote me; -the answer is within this and answers other MAD wrestings of Scripture, also;
The "Way of the Gentiles" is not "Gentiles", in the passage you partly quoted, which includes "nor into any city of the Smaritans". The Way of the Gentiles is a geographic location connected to the Samaritan area, which they must go through, to reach.

And Jesus took them promptly into the "Way of the Gentiles, through Samaritan villages, where they stayed in one, after the Apostles returned from that first evangelizing trip! -where Jesus gave Living Water to the Gentiles who believed in His name, which He first offered to the Gentile Samaritan woman at the well.

Jesus took His Apostles to the ten cities, across the Galilee, also, to minister to the Gentiles; only after delivering the demonaic Gentile Gaderene, those of that Gentile region asked Jesus to depart, from fear.

Before that, Jesus ministered to Gentiles in the "Way of the Gentiles" and fed them miraculously, and they gave glory to "The God of Israel" who was not "their" God.

Jesus and the disciples ate with the Gentiles in the Samaritan city for two days -then fed the Gentiles who came to hear Jesus on the mount, after that first trip to the lost of the house of Israel, Jesus took the Gospel to Gentiles.


Jesus sent His Church into all the world for all the age from that season of the Day of Salvation now come, in it's appointed Time, which was promised in Genesis 3:15.


Jesus specifically tells us in Matt 24, that the age ends when all the wicked are removed from earth,
and His kingdom is come; which is the Father's kingdom, and then the Father's will is done on earth as it is in heaven.
Until then, the Great commission is in effect for all the Church.

The Great Commission
(Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-49; John 20:19-23; Acts 1:6-8)
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go *therefore and make disciples of all GENTILES, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." *Amen.

-and Jesus did not say to the woman that he was only come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, for He would have told a lie against the Word of God, spoken by the Father in Isaiah 49 and retold by Simeon and Paul the Apostle; he said to the disciples I am not come "but to" -and to the woman, he spoke a directed, targeted sentence, which was for her, only, and not to others to whom He ministered and spoke.

You do not take Jesus' specific words spoken to specific persons in all the Gospel and try to apply them to all others -and doing so in these two instances is wresting Scripture and crafting words to destruction.


You are taking the first evangelizing trip Jesus sent His twelve on -which He sent them to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" to, specifically, as the first to be offered the Feast of the Father's banquet prepared for the Son's wedding, in it's season of appointment-and you are claiming that "nothing else happene" -they're all stuck in the MAD wrestings, back in those areas only -but Scripture proves MAD doctrine false, for they were not stuck and they did go to the Gentiles in Jesus' day -and after his resurrection; "They' includes all the Church who were joined to the Church and who were scattered by the persecutions into all the nations.

Not all the house of Israel was lost, and to that "House' all Believers are grafted in, as Jesus is "Israel" Firstborn in the New Man creation human being, [Isaiah 49], Come in Flesh as the Foundation Stone of that House [Isaiah 49; Haggai 2]! The Apostles were not lost; the disciples were not lost! "Jews first, then the Gentiles"! -in Jesus lifetime on earth -and by His command after His resurrection.
 
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sunlover1

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I wrote this elsewhere and quote me; -the answer is within this and answers other MAD wrestings of Scripture, also;
Thank you for the article Yeshuasavedme.
:)
I didn't wrest scripture you know, I just
posted it, and I'm not mad ;)

Blessings, and thank you,
sunlover
 
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billychum

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Hi Billy:

Let us suppose that you have a terminal illness, and there is a doctor who has the cure for your terminal illness and you believe in that doctor, but unless you take the medicine that the doctor prescribes, you are going to die of your terminal illness.

Ken.

The medicine according to Jesus is to believe.

Billy <><
 
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kmolson

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The medicine according to Jesus is to believe.

Billy <><
Hi Billy:

The medicine is the Gospel Billy; we need to believe the Gospel.

So let&#8217;s stop arguing in circles. OK?

In post #79, When the Gospel was presented, you said,
Quote, This is the biggest bunch of nonsense.
I hope you didn&#8217;t mean that.

Ken.
 
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Dispy

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It appears as if there are those who believe that the OT saints, and NT saints that were promised an earthly kingdom, will not get it after all. That they will be taken to heaven for eternity. IMHO, there is no Scriptural support for that view.

According to Jeremiah 23:5 "Behold the days come saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment in the earth.

Jesus taught His disciples to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven" (Matt. 6:10)

The kingdom "of heaven" is referring to the kingdom that is coming out of heaven, and will be established here upon the earth at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Many get there erroneous view from not being able to understand John 14:1-3.

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, ye will be also."

The Lord says a few chapters later in this same book:

"I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil" (John 17:15).

If the Lord was speaking about taking the apostles out of the world with the Rapture in John 14, why would He pray and ask God not to take them out of the world in John 17? (The ones taken out spoken of in Matthew 24:40-41 are unbelievers that are taken out to judgment.)

But as for John 14:3 itself, I think sometimes it is assumed that the Lord is saying that heaven was unprepared to receive the apostles, and so He would have to go to heaven to prepare a place for them. However, what would that mean? Was heaven unprepared to receive them? Did the Lord need to tidy up a bit?

I think rather the Lord was saying that His "going," i.e., His death, would be the thing that would prepare a place in heaven for them.

However, this does not mean that the Lord was speaking of the Rapture here. Let me explain.

Sometimes believers are confused about IPeter 1:4, where the Lord talks about Israel's inheritance which was "reserved in heaven for you." But we know that Israel's hope is the kingdom of heaven on earth (II Peter 1:11). What is Peter talking about?

Well, at the time Peter wrote those words, we must ask, Where was the kingdom? While it would eventually be on earth, it was at that time in heaven. Remember, it was "the kingdom of heaven." When the Lord died, He went to heaven to get the kingdom for Israel, and to bring it back to the earth.

We know this from the parable in Luke 19. The Lord told this parable because they thought the kingdom was about to appear (v.11). He told the parable to let them know that He had to die before the kingdom could appear.

The "certain nobleman" in Verse 12 is Christ. The "far country" He goes to is heaven. He is speaking about dying and going to heaven.

Notice that He says that the purpose of His death is "to receive for Himself a kingdom, and to return." As far as Israel is concerned, that was the purpose of the Lord's death. He had to die to go get the kingdom and return with it to earth.

Before He left earth, He charged His disciples to maintain His things while He was gone (v.13). These are the apostles, to whom He gave the Great Commission and other commands.

"But His citizens hated Him, and sent a message after Him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us" (v.14).

The "citizens" here are of course the citizens of Israel. How did they sent a message after the Lord after He died? How do you send a message to someone in heaven? Well, it is a bit gruesome, but they did it by stoning Stephen. When they stoned Stephen, they sent a message loud and clear to God the Father that they did not want the Lord Jesus to reign over them.

"And it came to pass, that when He was returned, having received the kingdom, then He commanded these servants to be called unto Him..."

Here we jump to the future, the 2nd coming of Christ. When the Lord returns at the 2nd coming, He will bring with Him the kingdom of heaven. He will then command "these servants to be called unto Him..." This is the "receive you unto Myself" that you are reading about in John 14:3.

It wouldn't make much sense to make John 14:3 to speak of the Rapture, though, for the parable goes on to talk about how the Lord is going to reward His servants by giving them command over the different "cities" of earth (19:17,19). This is Israel's hope. The 12 apostles will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel (Mt.19:28), and faithful Jews under them will also be helping them rule.

However, it is the teaching of the Apostle Paul that we will "judge angels" (I Cor.6:3). That is why Paul in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 says that we will be Raptured to heaven, to reign in the heavenlies. Also, according to 2 Cor. 5:1 "For we know lthat if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." Further, Philippians 5:20 "For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look forward for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ." It is the Church of this dispensation of Grace that will inherit heaven.

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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billychum

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Hi Billy:

The medicine is the Gospel Billy; we need to believe the Gospel.

So let&#8217;s stop arguing in circles. OK?

In post #79, When the Gospel was presented, you said,
Quote, This is the biggest bunch of nonsense.
I hope you didn&#8217;t mean that.

Ken.

I'm not the one using circular speculation. I presented scripture that answers the question that you asked of me "tell me about this gospel that Paul and Jesus preached" and then you begin to add and take away from the text.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Billy <><
 
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billychum

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It appears as if there are those who believe that the OT saints, and NT saints that were promised an earthly kingdom, will not get it after all. That they will be taken to heaven for eternity. IMHO, there is no Scriptural support for that view.

So where will all the grandmothers, grandfathers, moms dads, brothers, sisters, preachers, church members or any sinner in general that believe and trust in Jesus Christ as their saviour, but have never heard of your dispensational view and have only known the Lord in the traditional Matthew, Mark, Luke and John old school style of re-birth gospel go?

Billy <><
 
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Dispy

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So where will all the grandmothers, grandfathers, moms dads, brothers, sisters, preachers, church members or any sinner in general that believe and trust in Jesus Christ as their saviour, but have never heard of your dispensational view and have only known the Lord in the traditional Matthew, Mark, Luke and John old school style of re-birth gospel go?

Billy <><

VERY GOOD QUESTION billy. All those grandmothers, grandfathers, moms dads, brothers, sisters, preachers, church members, who were saved by placing their faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ will be inherit heaven. However, the unprepentant sinners will not get there, if that is what you were referring to above. Those that were saved prior to the purpose of the Cross being known, were saved under the kingdom gospel and will inherit an earthly kingdom. Where do you plan on spending eternity? WHY THERE? Were you save under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom," or "the gospel of the Grace of God?"

I was saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the Grace of God," however, I knew, from what I was taught and my own Bible study, about "the kingdom of heaven" that was taught by John the Baptist, Jesus and the 12. That is not the gospel that saved me, and I don't look to go into an earthly kingdom.

WHAT DOES "RIGHTLY DIVIDING" THE WORD OF TRUTH MEAN TO YOU?

Billy, THANK GOD that one does not have to have their doctrine 100% correct in order to get to heaven. If that were the case, there wouldn't be too many there. Our salvation is determined by our relationship with our Saviour, not by our doctrine being 100% correct.

I personally know of people that are trying to work their way to heaven. They are deeply religious, amd are depending upon what good they do, and not what Jesus had done for them. Therefore, they will not stand before the Judgment seat of Christ to have their works examined as to their worth. Therefore, their works will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15.

Would appreciate your giving me a direct answer to my questions above.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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Dispy

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16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


So to the repented sinner can this be a formula for savation?
Billy <><

How about you answering my question first. WHY do you avoid them?
 
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billychum

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Where do you plan on spending eternity? WHY THERE? Were you save under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom," or "the gospel of the Grace of God?"

1. Not 100% sure but my hope would be heaven
2. Why not?
3. Initially neither

WHAT DOES "RIGHTLY DIVIDING" THE WORD OF TRUTH MEAN TO YOU?

To properly divide.

Our salvation is determined by our relationship with our Saviour, not by our doctrine being 100% correct.

And I think the Bible agrees with you on that.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Billy <><
 
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Dispy

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16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


So to the repented sinner can this be a formula for savation?
Billy <><

Maybe - could be.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Thank you for the article Yeshuasavedme.
:)
I didn't wrest scripture you know, I just
posted it, and I'm not mad ;)

Blessings, and thank you,
sunlover
Okay -I thought you were asking from the wrestings of MAD:)
to answer you, then, just look at what Jesus had already done in going to Gentiles and the Words of the Father in Isaiah 49 that He was to come for Israel's remnant and for the Gentiles, which Simeon and Paul both quoted about Him.

The context seems to be that when the disciples asked Jesus to make her be quiet, Jesus said "I am "not"come "but to" the house of Israel and He is stating that He is come to others, also -and they had already been with Him when He ministered to others after that initial missionary trip to Judea.

Then His words to the woman are just spoken to her, alone, for whatevr reason He speaks directly to each person with whom He deals.
His dealings are personal, and to take what He said to that woman and make it apply to all but the Jews is just plain ole "unright "dividing", and then one is obligated to take all His personal remarks spoken to all singular persons and apply them across the board to all....which doesn't work.
 
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Dispy

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Dispy said:
Where do you plan on spending eternity? WHY THERE? Were you save under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom," or "the gospel of the Grace of God?"

billychum said:
1. Not 100% sure but my hope would be heaven
2. Why not?
3. Initially neither

Re:1 - I also hope you go to heaven. Why are you not 100% sure? The Bible teaches eternal salvation/ eternal security. I feel sorry for you for not being sure. Guess you have that "hope so" feeling.

If one does not believe in eternal security, and can lose their salvation, that one cannot say they have salvation, they can only say that they are on probation.

Re: 2 - Wouldn't you like to be in the earthly kingdom that Jesus promised?

Re: 3 - Then what gospel were you initially saved under?


Dispy said:
WHAT DOES "RIGHTLY DIVIDING" THE WORD OF TRUTH MEAN TO YOU?

billychum said:
To properly divide.

HOW DOES ONE PROPERLY DIVIDE THE SCRIPTURES?

Dispy said:
Our salvation is determined by our relationship with our Saviour, not by our doctrine being 100% correct.

billychum said:
And I think the Bible agrees with you on that.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Billy <><

Good to see you use the word "think" its better then "could be"/"probably"/"maybe." Hope that some time in the near future you learn how to "expound."
 
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kmolson

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I'm not the one using circular speculation. I presented scripture that answers the question that you asked of me "tell me about this gospel that Paul and Jesus preached" and then you begin to add and take away from the text.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Billy <><
Hi Billy:

You cannot by-pass Paul, and go upstream past the Cross, to the time that Jesus was on earth and expect to find the Gospel of the Grace of God, you will not find it there.

Jesus said:
Jhn. 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now look at what happened when some gentiles wanted to speak to Jesus.

Jhn. 12:20; And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21; The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 22; Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. 23; And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24; Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 27; Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour 31; Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. 33;This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jesus was saying that he had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him. He had to shed His own Blood for them.
John 3:16; Belongs to the Law system, its roots go right into the blood of the sacrifice system, it cannot be extricated from it. It was given to the Jews and Jewish proselytes only. (“The whosoever’s” had to become Jewish proselytes first). The gentiles did not have a sacrifice system going for them.
Heb. 9:22; And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Israel has been Temporarily set aside, The Law and sacrifice system has also been set aside, along with John 3:16. (no blood, no remission).
Peter and the apostles have been temporarily set aside and the Apostle Paul has been given the Gospel of the Grace of God, which is based on the Precious Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ that was shed on the Cross.
The Gospel of The Grace of God can be found in I Cor. 15:1-4; and throughout Paul’s writings, where he speaks of the Blood and The Cross of Christ.
I cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Our salvation depends upon the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ shed His Blood on the Cross for our sins and rose from the dead. John 3:16 does not contain these facts, so it is not the gospel by which we are saved.
Ken.




 
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Dispy

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Hi Billy:

You cannot by-pass Paul, and go upstream past the Cross, to the time that Jesus was on earth and expect to find the Gospel of the Grace of God, you will not find it there.

Jesus said:
Jhn. 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now look at what happened when some gentiles wanted to speak to Jesus.

Jhn. 12:20; And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21; The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 22; Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. 23; And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24; Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 27; Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour 31; Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. 33;This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jesus was saying that he had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him. He had to shed His own Blood for them.
John 3:16; Belongs to the Law system, its roots go right into the blood of the sacrifice system, it cannot be extricated from it. It was given to the Jews and Jewish proselytes only. (“The whosoever’s” had to become Jewish proselytes first). The gentiles did not have a sacrifice system going for them.
Heb. 9:22; And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Israel has been Temporarily set aside, The Law and sacrifice system has also been set aside, along with John 3:16. (no blood, no remission).
Peter and the apostles have been temporarily set aside and the Apostle Paul has been given the Gospel of the Grace of God, which is based on the Precious Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ that was shed on the Cross.
The Gospel of The Grace of God can be found in I Cor. 15:1-4; and throughout Paul’s writings, where he speaks of the Blood and The Cross of Christ.
I cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Our salvation depends upon the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ shed His Blood on the Cross for our sins and rose from the dead. John 3:16 does not contain these facts, so it is not the gospel by which we are saved.
Ken.






AMEN Billy!

John 3:16 is a fact of human history. There are many people today who believe that Jesus is/was the Son of God, but have not placed their FAITH in His Cross work (death, burial and resurrection) for their salvation. Therefore, it would not be a salvation message for them. However, those that Jesus ministered to during His earthly ministry, had to believe on Him as to who He was in order to be saved. They had no knowledge of Him going to the Cross and what it would accomplish. Don't you think that is one of the reasons that Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:16 "Wherefore, henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have know Christ after the flesh (His earthly ministry), yet now henceforth know we him no more."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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billychum

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Hi Billy:

You cannot by-pass Paul, and go upstream past the Cross, to the time that Jesus was on earth and expect to find the Gospel of the Grace of God, you will not find it there.

Jesus said:
Jhn. 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now look at what happened when some gentiles wanted to speak to Jesus.

Jhn. 12:20; And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21; The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 22; Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. 23; And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24; Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 27; Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour 31; Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. 33;This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jesus was saying that he had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him. He had to shed His own Blood for them.
John 3:16; Belongs to the Law system, its roots go right into the blood of the sacrifice system, it cannot be extricated from it. It was given to the Jews and Jewish proselytes only. (“The whosoever’s” had to become Jewish proselytes first). The gentiles did not have a sacrifice system going for them.
Heb. 9:22; And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Israel has been Temporarily set aside, The Law and sacrifice system has also been set aside, along with John 3:16. (no blood, no remission).
Peter and the apostles have been temporarily set aside and the Apostle Paul has been given the Gospel of the Grace of God, which is based on the Precious Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ that was shed on the Cross.
The Gospel of The Grace of God can be found in I Cor. 15:1-4; and throughout Paul’s writings, where he speaks of the Blood and The Cross of Christ.
I cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Our salvation depends upon the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ shed His Blood on the Cross for our sins and rose from the dead. John 3:16 does not contain these facts, so it is not the gospel by which we are saved.
Ken.

There is so much speculation here that I'm not sure where to begin. But I guess you left out Jonn 12:25-26 and 28-30 because it provides context that doesn't allow for speculative methodolgy.

And where you interpret Jesus as saying "that He had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him" is partly true. But the text says that ALL MEN will be drawn to Him. And I believe that all men are drawn through the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and while some choose to reject others choose to except but there are none without excuse. And if you guys would stop proof texting and forcing the text to say things that it doesn't say so much you may come to realize that this could be the mystery that Paul is refering to. You are going to have to come up with something better than this in order to wiggle out of Jn. 3:16

Billy <><
 
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kmolson

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There is so much speculation here that I'm not sure where to begin. But I guess you left out Jonn 12:25-26 and 28-30 because it provides context that doesn't allow for speculative methodolgy.

And where you interpret Jesus as saying "that He had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him" is partly true. But the text says that ALL MEN will be drawn to Him. And I believe that all men are drawn through the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and while some choose to reject others choose to except but there are none without excuse. And if you guys would stop proof texting and forcing the text to say things that it doesn't say so much you may come to realize that this could be the mystery that Paul is refering to. You are going to have to come up with something better than this in order to wiggle out of Jn. 3:16

Billy <><
When your in a hole, stop digging.

Ken.
 
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