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Question - WHY PAUL?

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Dispy

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There is so much speculation here that I'm not sure where to begin. But I guess you left out Jonn 12:25-26 and 28-30 because it provides context that doesn't allow for speculative methodolgy.

And where you interpret Jesus as saying "that He had to die before the Gentiles could come to Him" is partly true. But the text says that ALL MEN will be drawn to Him. And I believe that all men are drawn through the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and while some choose to reject others choose to except but there are none without excuse. And if you guys would stop proof texting and forcing the text to say things that it doesn't say so much you may come to realize that this couldbe the mystery that Paul is refering to. You are going to have to come up with something better than this in order to wiggle out of Jn. 3:16

Billy <><

When you say:"...I believe that all men are drawn through the pouring out of the Holy Slpirit..." My Bible reads: "John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me.

PLEASE,
in the future, put some Biblical support for your "could be's." I tired of responding to your "could be.."
 
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SpiritDriven

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God wanted to demonstrate using Paul as the example... that it is not about the Man who Wills or the Man who runs..... but about God who has mercy.

Or in other words Paul was chosen to reveal the full consequences of the completed work of the Cross.

The completed work of the Cross was a consequence of Gods doing and man has no say in that matter.... weather he is a believer or not.

To demonstrate this to all future generations of man, he made Paul....the foremost of all sinners.... the persecutor of the Faith full in Christ Jesus.

Then Paul was struck down blind by the Glorified and risen Christ, on the road to Damascus....by the Will of God... and ended up writing most of the New Testament.

God set up a demonstration of his power..... he is saying to us..... it does not matter what you believe... I get MY way for you....PERIOD !

See Saul of Tarsus...... in Pauls own words...

From 1 Timothy

14 Yet the grace of our Lord overwhelms.........with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

Got the picture yet ?

Peace
 
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Dispy

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SpiritDriven said:
To demonstrate this to all future generations of man, he made Paul....the foremost of all sinners.... the persecutor of the Faith full in Christ Jesus.

Are you accusing God for causing Paul's actions prior to his salvation?
 
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Chickapee

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Question - WHY PAUL?


Jesus had chosen 12 disciples to "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..."

WHY did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel (Acts 9); when he had already chosen 12 to go to all the world?

Also, WHY did James, Cephas (Peter), and John agree with Paul and Barnabas, in Gal. 2:9, that they, (Paul & Barnabas), should go to the heathen (Gentiles), and that they would stay with the circumcision (Jews)?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Hi read a few comments about paul on this thread , and wanted to add this for concideration also among the others speaking here about this Dispy

i find hidden truth awesome and that saul means asked / paul means small , the least shall become the greatest in the Kingdom of God ? just as John the baptist was the least in the kingdom shall be greater than he .,, hummm ? what was Jesus saying there than ??
paul being small
this by preaching to ALL NATIONS , not just the jews ? Paul said he was the chiesfest[top place first ] of sinners
and yet God choose him as a vessel for the masters use and to show him all the mysteries and revelations and pieces missing to know and share and write for us , what Grace of God huh?
what do you think ?

peace and God bless ,,, c
 
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SpiritDriven

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Jesus had chosen 12 disciples to "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..."

WHY did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel (Acts 9); when he had already chosen 12 to go to all the world?

Also, WHY did James, Cephas (Peter), and John agree with Paul and Barnabas, in Gal. 2:9, that they, (Paul & Barnabas), should go to the heathen (Gentiles), and that they would stay with the circumcision (Jews)?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Everything I feel.....tells me that God chose Saul of Tarsus, because it was God who raised up Saul for the purpose of persecuting the Faith full in Christ Jesus...

That way God could demonstrate to all the future generations of Men that it is he...God... that is in control of our lives and what we believe in the end.

Change from being the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus.....to writing most of the New Testament, and revealing the full consequences of the completed work of the Cross along the way......

A demonstration by God for all of us.....that even the foremost of ALL Sinners.....the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus....was not lost to God....so there is nobody left after that can be lost to God.


Peace
 
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Chickapee

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Everything I feel.....tells me that God chose Saul of Tarsus, because it was God who raised up Saul for the purpose of persecuting the Faith full in Christ Jesus...

That way God could demonstrate to all the future generations of Men that it is he...God... that is in control of our lives and what we believe in the end.

Change from being the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus.....to writing most of the New Testament, and revealing the full consequences of the completed work of the Cross along the way......

A demonstration by God for all of us.....that even the foremost of ALL Sinners.....the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus....was not lost to God....so there is nobody left after that can be lost to God.


Peace
wonderfully put Spirit driven!!!
peace and Joy in Him ,,, C
 
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SpiritDriven

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Are you accusing God for causing Paul's actions prior to his salvation?

That response made me smile Dispy..... a mans way is not in himself, nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.............
Remember how God raised up pharoh for the purpose of confrontration with Moses.... so that the Lords name would be published throughout all the Earth !

Wow ! Think about it, a great civilisation that worshipped Pagan Gods rose out of the dust to suit only Gods purpose....hows that for power!

God certainly does all things his way.............

Peace
 
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Dispy

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I apologize for not answering sooner. I was out of state most of last week, and had too many things to do once I got home.

Dispy said:
Jesus had chosen 12 disciples to "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..."

WHY did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel (Acts 9); when he had already chosen 12 to go to all the world?

Also, WHY did James, Cephas (Peter), and John agree with Paul and Barnabas, in Gal. 2:9, that they, (Paul & Barnabas), should go to the heathen (Gentiles), and that they would stay with the circumcision (Jews)?

SpiritDriven said:
Everything I feel.....tells me that God chose Saul of Tarsus, because it was God who raised up Saul for the purpose of persecuting the Faith full in Christ Jesus...

That way God could demonstrate to all the future generations of Men that it is he...God... that is in control of our lives and what we believe in the end.

Change from being the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus.....to writing most of the New Testament, and revealing the full consequences of the completed work of the Cross along the way......

A demonstration by God for all of us.....that even the foremost of ALL Sinners.....the persecutor of the Faithfull in Christ Jesus....was not lost to God....so there is nobody left after that can be lost to God.

Peace

First of all, you did not answer any of my questions. WHY?

It appears to me that you are saying that God chose Paul to persecute Christians. It would be quite difficult for me to believe that God would chose anyone to do evil. That is entirely against the nature of God.

All of mankind was given "free will." It is man that choses to do good or evil.

Being our God is an "all knowing God," He knew what Saul would do. Therefore, God allowed Saul to persecute Christians, not directing him to do so. Saul/Paul was saved by the pure GRACE of God. "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long suffering, for a pattern to them which shoud hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim. 1:16).

God chose Paul to usher in this present "dispensation of Grace," which God had planned even before the world began. This was God's Plan to defeat satan and provide a means in which ALL mankind could be saved.

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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SpiritDriven

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I apologize for not answering sooner. I was out of state most of last week, and had too many things to do once I got home.





First of all, you did not answer any of my questions. WHY?

God works all things after the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11).

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the Host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand or say to Him, "What hast Thou done" (Daniel 4:35).

Do you see yet how it is not our place to question why God does things his way...?

It appears to me that you are saying that God chose Paul to persecute Christians. It would be quite difficult for me to believe that God would chose anyone to do evil. That is entirely against the nature of God.

The Lord fashioned evil against Israel [His chosen people] and devised a plan against them (Jeremiah 18:11).
If calamity [Hebrew: "ra" = evil] occurs in a city the Lord has done it (Amos 3:6-8).
No one speaks and it comes to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it. It is from the mouth of the Most High that both good and evil go forth. No living mortal, or any man, should offer complaint in view of his sins (Lam. 3:37-39).

Can you see how God is the author of all things including good and evil....?

All of mankind was given "free will." It is man that choses to do good or evil.

The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps (Proverbs 16:9).
The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord (Proverbs 16:33).
Many are the plans in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord will be established (Proverbs 19:21).
Man's steps are ordained by the Lord (Proverbs 20:24).
A man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).]


What Free Will....?


Being our God is an "all knowing God," He knew what Saul would do. Therefore, God allowed Saul to persecute Christians, not directing him to do so.


A man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).


Saul/Paul was saved by the pure GRACE of God. "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long suffering, for a pattern to them which shoud hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim. 1:16).

AGREED !!!!!

God chose Paul to usher in this present "dispensation of Grace," which God had planned even before the world began. This was God's Plan to defeat satan and provide a means in which ALL mankind could be saved.

AGREED !!!!!!!

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

May you grow stronger in the Spirit as each day goes by....

Peace
 
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Dispy

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Dispy said:
Are you accusing God for causing Paul's actions prior to his salvation?

That response made me smile Dispy..... a mans way is not in himself, nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.............
Remember how God raised up pharoh for the purpose of confrontration with Moses.... so that the Lords name would be published throughout all the Earth !

Wow ! Think about it, a great civilisation that worshipped Pagan Gods rose out of the dust to suit only Gods purpose....hows that for power!

God certainly does all things his way.............

Peace

I too smiled as I copied from The Power of God Unto Salvation - Is the Gospel Enough?

[SNIP)
The next example Paul calls upon is that of Pharaoh. "For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout the earth" (Rom. 9:17). The words "raised thee up" are often interpreted to mean that God brought Pharaoh into existence for the purpose stated in verse 17. But this is not the "raising up" Paul has in mind. In Exodus 9:16 (from which Paul is quoting), the Hebrew word for "raised" means "to cause to stand." This goes back to the sixth plague, where we read, "And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils..." (Exod. 9:1 la). The word, "stand" in verse 11, and "raised" in verse 16 are the same word! In other words, God raised Pharaoh up from the plague of boils so that he could continue to resist Moses by not releasing the children of Israel.

Romans 9:18 continues, "Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth." Again, the Calvinist proclaims, "See, Pharaoh had no choice but to resist, for God hardened his hem!" Let us once more go back into the context of Exodus and see exactly what God did with Pharaoh. In this passage, three different Hebrew words are used which are all translated "harden" in English. One is the word, "qashah" which means to be cruel or stubborn. This word is used once of the hardening of Pharaoh's heart (Exod. 7:14). Previous to this, however, a different word is used; "chazaq," which means "to strengthen." This word is used the first time we read of God hardening Pharaoh's heart: "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go" (Exod. 4:21b). Pharaoh already had it in his heart not to let Israel go, "I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand" (Exod. 3:19). When God says He will harden Pharaoh's heart, He is literally saying that He will "strengthen" the resolve Pharaoh already had in his heart. That is, God knew that the plagues would "soften" Pharaoh up, but He wanted his heart to remain hard so all ten plagues could fall on all the gods of Egypt. Each plague was directed at one of the Egyptian gods; therefore, the Lord wanted Pharaoh to remain hardened until all ten gods had been judged. "For the Egyptians buried all their firstborn, which the LORD had smitten among them: upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments" (Num. 33:4).

Again, the context is clear. God did not harden Pharaoh's heart so he would not be saved. God strengthened Pharaoh's resolve to hold Israel captive, so all ten gods of Egypt could be judged. God states that His purpose in all this was "that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth" (Rom. 9:17b). Paul's whole point here is that God used a GENTILE KING to glorify Himself in the earth. It should not be surprising, then, that God would now use Gentiles to do His work.

(SNIP)

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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Dispy

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Great Post....

I still think it is awesome how that great eygptian civilisation only came into being to suit a purpose of Gods at a given point of time....

Peace

I will agree with you in that we have an AWESOME God.
 
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