Question - WHY PAUL?

[Dispy]

Dispy

So according to this article, because of the language used, I could assume a couple of things.

1. God started a new gospel or program with Paul.

2. God used Paul to further or better define the gospel that was already in place.

I've seen folks on this forum use lots of scripture to support both positions. So getting back to the point and with all due respect. Those who take position one must go on the assumption that, because God used Paul, He must have began a completely new plan. I would like to agree with your position because, in my opinion, on one hand it makes good sense in the short run but on the other hand it leads down a rabbit trail of division. Is there any scripture that clearly states your position? And again I'm thankful for the civil interaction.

Billy <><

Had you studied the article by Tracy Plessinger in context, then you should have come to the conclusion that:

1. God had a master plan for His creation, even before creation.

2. That God knew that there was one who wanted to usurp His posistion.

3. That man would fall to the wiles of that one, and become fallen.

4. That God used satan to accomplish His plan, by having satan's followers crucify His Son. That the Cross was in God's prior to creation.

5. That God raised up Paul to reveal God's secret plan that would accomplish His will, and provide a means in which fallen man could be saved.

6. That there is a place in God's creation for the one, and his followers, who wanted to usurp His position, and those who refused not to accept His free gift of salvation.

7. That in the "dispensation of the fulness of time" God's initial plan will have been accomplished.

Like I said. We serve an awesome God. He is the Alpha and the Omega, and knew/knows the beginning from the end.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dispy]

kmolson:
THANKS for your support.

One minor correction to you commentary. God's plan that He revealed to Paul; was not new, just unknown. God had that plan even before creation, but kept it secret. He (God) used Paul to make known that plan and how God's purposes for creation would be accomplished.

I know that you knew this, but just mistated it. You made you point very clear.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Dispy]

Jesus had chosen 12 disciples to "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..."

WHY did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel (Acts 9); when he had already chosen 12 to go to all the world?

Also, WHY did James, Cephas (Peter), and John agree with Paul and Barnabas, in Gal. 2:9, that they, (Paul & Barnabas), should go to the heathen (Gentiles), and that they would stay with the circumcision (Jews)?

OT apostle .... 12 disicples... one killed himself... since he was the devil

NT apostle .... acts 1:15-22, acts 14:14, phil 2:25, romans 16:7, 2 cor 12:12


why does paul say He had not learned everything in Phil 3:10.... 1 john 1:3-4 was not revealed many yrs latter

You didn't answer my questions, and I don't have a clue as just what you are trying to say. PLEASE explain what you are trying to say.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[billychum]

Had you studied the article by Tracy Plessinger in context, then you should have come to the conclusion that:

5. That God raised up Paul to reveal God's secret plan that would accomplish His will, and provide a means in which fallen man could be saved.

I've studied the article and agree, at least on the surface, with all of it except that Paul was the first and ONLY one to recieve Gods revelation of restoration for fallen man. And for me observations like, God created heaven and earth, secret plan, or mysteries such as why God used Paul, isn't enough to constitute a doctrine such as that on.

Thanks, gotta go to work but will check in this evening.

Billy <><

 

[lightninboy]

Still don't like to answer questions do you?

What did you want to know about the ones you ask about?

Do those people prove to you that a Gentile didn't have to become a Jew to be saved?

 

[Dispy]

Still don't like to answer questions do you?

Do those people prove to you that a Gentile didn't have to become a Jew to be saved?

Where do you find that these people were saved? Chapter and verse please.

 

[lightninboy]

LDG mentioned Naaman and David's men.

I mention Nebuchadnezzar.

You say that Naaman and David's men and Nebuchadnezzar weren't saved?

 

[Dispy]

LDG mentioned Naaman and David's men.

I mention Nebuchadnezzar.

You say that Naaman and David's men and Nebuchadnezzar weren't saved?

I NEVER SAID THAT OR IMPLIED THAT. NOW ANSWER WHAT I ASKED FOR. JUST SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT THEY WERE SAVED.

Man I wish you would take a reading comprehension course, or quit responding to me.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

OT apostle .... 12 disicples... one killed himself... since he was the devil

NT apostle .... acts 1:15-22, acts 14:14, phil 2:25, romans 16:7, 2 cor 12:12


why does paul say He had not learned everything in Phil 3:10.... 1 john 1:3-4 was not revealed many yrs latter

You didn't answer my questions, and I don't have a clue as just what you are trying to say. PLEASE explain what you are trying to say.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

there are 12 gifts given to the church

even apostle need to be humble to the other gifts within the church to recieve the fulness of Christ

 

[lightninboy]

Nebuchadnezzer:

http://www.spreadinglight.com/theology/armvscal.html

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/8/172004mc.asp

http://voiceofthesheep.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/who-said-it/

http://bible-truth.org/Daniel4.html

http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/eng/classes/434/charweb/brasseur3.htm

http://bible-truth.org/Daniel2.html

 

[Dispy]

Nebuchadnezzer:

http://www.spreadinglight.com/theology/armvscal.html

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/8/172004mc.asp

http://voiceofthesheep.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/who-said-it/

http://bible-truth.org/Daniel4.html

http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/eng/classes/434/charweb/brasseur3.htm

http://bible-truth.org/Daniel2.html

Believe I asked for Biblical chapter and verse, not some denominational commentary.

You still don't like to answer questions do you? That too is a question.

 

[Dispy]

I've studied the article and agree, at least on the surface, with all of it except that Paul was the first and ONLY one to recieve Gods revelation of restoration for fallen man. And for me observations like, God created heaven and earth, secret plan, or mysteries such as why God used Paul, isn't enough to constitute a doctrine such as that on.

Thanks, gotta go to work but will check in this evening.

Billy <><

What are your thoughts on 1 Timothy 1:16? "Howbeit for this cause, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long suffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

Doesn't that tell you something about Paul's special revelations.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[billychum]

What are your thoughts on 1 Timothy 1:16? "Howbeit for this cause, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long suffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

Doesn't that tell you something about Paul's special revelations.

Yes, there is no doubt that Paul had some special revelations but it doesn't tell me that God put the first Gospel to the side in order to begin a new Gospel with Paul. In this case Paul may have been the first with such a remarkable conversion experience therefore laying the groundwork for all other Sinner Saul, to Saint Paul, experiences. In fact this verse could help to answer you original question "why Paul" Maybe God used Paul because of his unique powerful testimony that the other twelve didn't share.

Billy <><

 

[lightninboy]

Nebuchadnezzar:


34And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me. 37Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

During Messiah's lifetime, whenever any person actually came to believe that Jesus was the Messianic King, then that person was born again. Before the crucifixion, one did not need to believe that Christ died and rose again to be saved, as it had not yet occurred. But one had to believe that Jesus is the Messianic King and the God-Man. At some point, 11 of the 12 apostles came to believe just that. John came to believe it very early (as early as chapter one of his gospel), and the others a bit later. By the time of Matthew 16, all but one of the 12 disciples had been born again, all having come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. However, Judas never came to that conclusion and, therefore, was never saved. The way a Gentile could be saved before Yeshua's time was by putting his faith in the God of Israel as being the only God, and rejecting idolatry. It would not be necessary for a Gentile to convert to Judaism to be saved, but simply to put faith in the God of Israel as the only God and Savior while rejecting all idolatry and, then, living under the laws of the Noahic Covenant (Gen. 9:1-17).

 

[Apollos1]

In reference to 1 Timothy 1:16...

This is a great verse for a word study.

The Greek word used here is "protos".

The CONTEXT of what Paul is saying is that he was the "first" or "chief" (as some translations use) EXAMPLE of the mercy/longsuffering of God.
All who would believe afterward can look to Paul and see the pattern of longsuffering God has toward sinners!

Paul was the "proto"-type of God's mercy - there is no context of a new gospel in this verse.

Don't make it something that it is not for the sake of a false theology.

 

[Dispy]

In reference to 1 Timothy 1:16...

This is a great verse for a word study.

The Greek word used here is "protos".

The CONTEXT of what Paul is saying is that he was the "first" or "chief" (as some translations use) EXAMPLE of the mercy/longsuffering of God.
All who would believe afterward can look to Paul and see the pattern of longsuffering God has toward sinners!

Paul was the "proto"-type of God's mercy - there is no context of a new gospel in this verse.

Don't make it something that it is not for the sake of a false theology.

Who was saying that that there was a new gospel in that verse?

G4413 -pro&#772;tos
pro'-tos
Contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.

You still don't like to answer questions do you? BTW, that was a question too.

 

[Apollos1]

Dispy -

Dispy complained: Who was saying that that there was a new gospel in that verse?

I have discussed this verse with some dispys who claim that this verse means that Paul was the "first" to receive that alleged second gospel. I have no regrets about including that in my post.

I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

 

[kmolson]

Dispy -

Dispy complained: Who was saying that that there was a new gospel in that verse?

I have discussed this verse with some dispys who claim that this verse means that Paul was the "first" to receive that alleged second gospel. I have no regrets about including that in my post.

I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

Apollos1 said
I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

Paul said:
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ,
[and] lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
[2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Jesus said;
Jhn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Enuff said:

Ken.

 

[Dispy]

Dispy -

Dispy complained: Who was saying that that there was a new gospel in that verse?

I have discussed this verse with some dispys who claim that this verse means that Paul was the "first" to receive that alleged second gospel. I have no regrets about including that in my post.

I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

Apollos1 said
I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

Paul said:
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ,
[and] lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
[2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Jesus said;
Jhn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Enuff said:

Ken.

AMEN Ken.

Apollos1 was probably speaking with some Act 2 dispies, and not mid-Acts dispies.

The word "GOSPEL" simply means "good news." There is "good new" (gospel) given throughout the Bible.
Gen. 3:15 was "good news" to Adam and Eve. The ark was "good news" to Noah. Genesis 12:1-3 was "good news" to Abram. The Law was "good news" to the children of Israel. The "gospel of the kingdom" was "good news" to Israel. The "gospel of the grace of God" is "good news to us believers today. That is just a very small portion of the "good news'" one can find in the Bible.

There are two primary doctrines found in the Bible. Both are referred to as "gospel." We have the "the gospel of the kingdom" which is the "good news" of the kingdom which Jesus came to establish (Romans 15:8). and we have "the gospel of the Grace of God" which is the "good news" of what the Cross of Christ accomplished, and the instructions for the Christian walk of the believer today.

Too many believers today treat these two doctrines (gospels) as "one and the same" gospel. This, I believe only leads to confusion and denominations, with each denomination using a little different formula as to how to mix them.

Mixing the two doctrines (gospels) is what is what I call "a scrambled egg doctrine." Each doctrine has their own receipe for mixing them, and then serve up their "omlet" to thier congregations.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[billychum]

Apollos1 said
I see that Paul is still the "idol" that you seek to serve...

Paul said:
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ,
[and] lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
[2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Jesus said;
Jhn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Enuff said:

Ken.

Speaking of mixing things up; and it could be that I am completly misunderstanding Ken. But isn't the one who Jesus sent in Jn. 13:20 the Holy Spirit and not Paul?

Billy <><