Question to those who follow tradition.

[The Liturgist]

You know it is kind of funny, I like me some tradition but I also like to keep things up to date and making sense. Most here seem to think that scripture is beyond tradition....dropped down from the sky as is directly from God. Well I admit that we do have to start with something and scripture seems to be universally revered. But since at least the enlightenment and higher scripture scholarship we have recognized that there is a great deal more going on than simply a literal retelling of history. Many of us have recognized a need to review adapt our interpretations of scripture. That is, break with tradition. In the same way looking at established practices, especially elated to piety, there has been some recognition of need for reform. For example, Mass in vernacular in stead of Latin, religious no longer wearing habits, etc.

The critical discernment is : how do we remain faithful to the primary revelation of our faith, Jesus Christ while at the same time addressing the needs of our current times and place in a way that brings about the Kingdom of God in our personal lives as well as the world itself. The Roman Catholic Church is a good example of the struggle that can entail. The is great tension within the RCC. But I think that is good. We need the diversity but we also need to learn better to talk and listen to each other without bitterness and judgment.

I disagree with the entirety of your post, on an almost absolute level. From the mistreatment of Traditional Latin Mass communities, to the widespread closures of parishes, to the decline in vocations among those orders of religious which no longer wear the traditional habits (whereas those more traditional orders that wear the habit have not experienced such a decline in vocations), and so on, the rupture of tradition in the Roman Catholic Church has caused severe problems within your denomination, and Pope Benedict XVI did the right thing in trying to correct it, and it is a great tragedy his efforts are now being dismantled.

I feel I should point out that Scripture does not give us the option of re-interpreting it for the sake of convenience in the modern world. The verses that provide the basis for Holy Tradition also require that the Gospel that was preached by the Apostles continue to be preached, without alteration. 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and Galatians 1:8-9

Furthermore, the canons of the Council of Ephesus, the Third Ecumenical Synod, held in 433 AD, which the Roman Catholic Church participated in (since St. Celestine supported the efforts of St. Cyril of Alexandria to depose Nestorius) prohibit modifying or replacing the Nicene Creed in its 381 recension.

Thus we can assert that the Gospel and the Creed are materially immutable, as is the Holy Tradition itself.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think so, yes.

If it’s something new that wasn’t taught previously then that would contradict the very definition of the word tradition.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Can you name someone that doesn't follow tradition? Any tradition?

-CryptoLutheran

That would be the exact opposite of what the thread is about.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That would be the exact opposite of what the thread is about.

This thread is about people who follow [a] tradition(s).

But that's everyone.

Which is why I asked what I asked.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Always in His Presence]

This thread is about people who follow [a] tradition(s).

But that's everyone.

Which is why I asked what I asked.

-CryptoLutheran

We disagree - thanks for participating. I'm not debating on this thread - have a great day!

 

[ViaCrucis]

We disagree - thanks for participating. I'm not debating on this thread - have a great day!

Then I can only conclude that this thread was created in bad faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Always in His Presence]

Then I can only conclude that this thread was created in bad faith.

-CryptoLutheran

You are free to come to any conclusion your mind settles on.

 

[RileyG]

If it’s something new that wasn’t taught previously then that would contradict the very definition of the word tradition.

Discipline or practice may be another word.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I feel I should point out that Scripture does not give us the option of re-interpreting it for the sake of convenience in the modern world.

That is a distortion of the motive. Do you still hold literalist view of creation narratives?

 

[Always in His Presence]

How do you determine which tradition to follow?

Is the determination based on age, or year it started?

Is there a cut off, where you don't follow traditions after a certain time?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Discipline or practice may be another word.

It's also a case where traditions can be very new, they don't require a specific age. In my family it was a tradition that at Christmas we spent Christmas Eve at my grandparents, and Christmas morning at home. It was that way every year when I was a child. That was our tradition.

The only requirement for something to be a tradition is for it to be received and continued. Traditions can emerge very quickly, and then fade away. Traditions can also exist over the course of many generations.

Tradition, in the abstract sense, encompasses a wide range of things.

It's one reason why the notion of avoiding any kind of tradition is ultimately nonsense.

I have a friend who lives in the Portland, OR metropolitan area, he is part of an intentional Christian community, many of the members live under the same roof, the rest live very near by. They don't follow what would be considered a "traditional" way of doing church. There are Scripture readings, a sermon (they call it a "lesson"), they sing hymns from a hymnal, and they celebrate the Lord's Supper every week. Though the way they do these things is not traditional, it would be wrong to say they don't have a tradition. They have their own traditions.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

How do you determine which tradition to follow?

Is the determination based on age, or year it started?

Is there a cut off, where you don't follow traditions after a certain time?

1. The Orthodox has received Holy Tradition, with the versions of Holy Scripture that we use at its center, as a deposit of faith, and only occasionally are there disputes over what is actually a part of Holy Tradition or a local church custom. In which case the way to settle the matter depends on the nature of the tradition in question, but in general local church customs are now regarded as the distinct and beautiful expressions of faith of a specific people or group of people.

2. Insofar as we do not admit new tradition beyond when a person is realized to have been saved by God and is thus glorified as a saint, and troparia and kontakia and icons are composed for their veneration, and these are added to the periphery of Orthodox tradition.

3. No, because God is unchanging, and Scripture assures us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

The very idea of an aspect of Holy Tradition expiring because of its age is horrifying to the Orthodox, since the core of our Tradition is Sacred Scripture, which has no expiration date, and likewise, neither does the Nicene Creed, nor our liturgical texts, nor hymns, nor icons, nor liturgical artwork such as church architecture, music, vestments, etc, nor the Patristic writings and Ecumenical Synods (which collectively make up most of the rest of Holy Tradition).

 

[stevevw]

For those who follow tradition - regardless of age.

How do you know the traditions are accurate? of even from God?

So many fly in the face of Scripture and there have been so many errors through the almost 2,000 years of tradition, how do you determine which are of God and which are not?

It depends on what you mean by tradition. There are traditional Christian values based on the bible like say marriage between a man and women and the traditional family of mother, father and children ect.

Or theres the traditions associated with the church like church on Sunday, tithing, the Eucharist and confession ect.

 

[Sel@h]

For those who follow tradition - regardless of age.

How do you know the traditions are accurate? of even from God?

So many fly in the face of Scripture and there have been so many errors through the almost 2,000 years of tradition, how do you determine which are of God and which are not?

I found a few scriptures that might help us understand. I believe God wants His people to follow only the traditions outlined in His Word, the Bible. He wants us to be led by the Holy Spirit instead of following the traditions of man.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 (NKJV)

Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?

- Matthew 15:1-3 (NKJV)
———
Blessings like rain,
Selah

 

[Sel@h]

Continued . . .

…but on the other hand, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with customs (“traditions”) that are of a cultural nature—like eating tamales at Christmas time.

We just need to seek the Holy Spirit's leading and make sure that every custom we have gives glory and aligns with His heart and desire and will for our good.

Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. Romans 8:27-28 (NKJV)


Blessings like rain,
Selah

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

For those who follow tradition - regardless of age.

How do you know the traditions are accurate? of even from God?

So many fly in the face of Scripture and there have been so many errors through the almost 2,000 years of tradition, how do you determine which are of God and which are not?

We understand that sacred Tradition is a revelation from God for the same reasons and from the same sources that confirm sacred Scripture as divine revelation. Both are bestowed upon us by the Church, and our confidence in their authenticity stems from the Church's teachings and the enduring presence of the Holy Spirit within the Church and its teachings.

 

[concretecamper]

For those who follow tradition - regardless of age.

How do you know the traditions are accurate? of even from God?

So many fly in the face of Scripture and there have been so many errors through the almost 2,000 years of tradition, how do you determine which are of God and which are not?

I really don't see where Tradition and Scripture are opposed. Now I see many interpretations of Scripture opposed to Tradition, but that is a different story.

 

[The Liturgist]

I really don't see where Tradition and Scripture are opposed. Now I see many interpretations of Scripture opposed to Tradition, but that is a different story.

Indeed, such as the False Traditions of Men, by which our Lord was referring to the “Oral Torah” of the Pharisees.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Thus we can assert that the Gospel and the Creed are materially immutable, as is the Holy Tradition itself.

Reinterpretations is not the same as change when it comes to Gospel and Creed, Tradition, if it is living, is another matter.

Attributing all the "problems" with "rupture with tradition" is really a bit simplistic. The Church and the world were ripe for new life since the 1950's. Changes in Church practice and thinking were inevitable and needed in some cases.