Question time. Jesus returns before or after 1000yrs

  • Thread starter LittleLambofJesus
  • Start date

What I think about the 1000yr period

  • Before the 1000yrs

  • During the 1000yrs

  • After the 1000yrs

  • Doesn't matter to me


Results are only viewable after voting.

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,794
114,491
✟1,343,906.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Along with a few Wolves :)

Matthew 23:4
"For they are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are on-placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".


Acts 20:29
"For I have-perceived this. That shall be entering after the departure of Me, wolves, weighty/bareiV <926> into ye,
no sparing of-the shepherded/flock




.

What wolves? :p

wold-in-sheep.jpg
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
"Who says? You?"

Bingo !!! .... and so does the Lord, or He would not say this [Revelation 1:3]

He has not given symbolic confusion as you think

His Revelation can be understood literally and completely .... give it your best shot

If I read the bible literally I might end up very confused because while lots of it IS literal (history, biography, narrative) some of it is NOT literal (poem, metaphor, symbolism, apocalyptic, sonnet, psalm, parable).

Imagine reading Jesus parable's and some of Revelation literally?

You might end up thinking you had to go build a tower, wage a war, build a house on a rock, poke your eye out and cut off your hand, and finally push a camel through the eye of a needle, because you actually worship in the church of the 7 eyed, 7 horned space-lamb!
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If I read the bible literally I might end up very confused because while lots of it IS literal (history, biography, narrative) some of it is NOT literal (poem, metaphor, symbolism, apocalyptic, sonnet, psalm, parable).

Imagine reading Jesus parable's and some of Revelation literally?

You might end up thinking you had to go build a tower, wage a war, build a house on a rock, poke your eye out and cut off your hand, and finally push a camel through the eye of a needle, because you actually worship in the church of the 7 eyed, 7 horned space-lamb!

That is Literally not all that reading Literally is.

Reading Literally also includes seeking out the Literal that the figure, symbol, etc., often point to as well.

Take Psalm 27, for example, where David, hunted down by Saul, relates "13. I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living."

His faith in the LORD's promise to him results in an image [symbolism] in his mind's "eye" of the Literalness of that promise.

For that matter, what is Paul's "the eyes of your understanding" a reference to?

Symbolism for that Literal sense of things where we find ourselves saying, "I see things clearly now..."

I mentioned "we find ourselves." Does that mean we were lost, or that we were "lost in thought when a kind of a fog lifted and I could see things clearly now.."

Can't separate the Literal from the Symbolic as one's means of conveying the contributing sense of the other, any more than we can separate the Symbolic from the Literal.

Some have obviously failed basic Literature 101.

Literally...
 
Upvote 0

Straightshot

Member
Feb 13, 2015
4,742
295
56
✟16,234.00
Faith
Christian
"If I read the bible literally I might end up very confused"


You are confused because you don't

Are you to busy to spend the time to seek out the literal meanings of the symbols given?

Most are, and in exchange are willing to listen to teachers who would deceive them with their metaphorical mush instead

Is the Lord's prophetic word important for you to study and know .... or just a confused jumble of trivia that cannot be understood?
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That is Literally not all that reading Literally is.

Reading Literally also includes seeking out the Literal that the figure, symbol, etc., often point to as well.

Take Psalm 27, for example, where David, hunted down by Saul, relates "13. I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living."

His faith in the LORD's promise to him results in an image [symbolism] in his mind's "eye" of the Literalness of that promise.

For that matter, what is Paul's "the eyes of your understanding" a reference to?

Symbolism for that Literal sense of things where we find ourselves saying, "I see things clearly now..."

I mentioned "we find ourselves." Does that mean we were lost, or that we were "lost in thought when a kind of a fog lifted and I could see things clearly now.."

Can't separate the Literal from the Symbolic as one's means of conveying the contributing sense of the other, any more than we can separate the Symbolic from the Literal.

Some have obviously failed basic Literature 101.

Literally...

Danoh, you're just playing with words! Apocalyptic literature has symbolism in imagery, biblical symbolism and of course the all important Jewish symbols of NUMBERS! 1000 is hardly ever used *literally* in the bible (unless maybe in the census). It is most often used to mean something to the effect of "God's perfect, really big number for something." I guess today it's like saying "He had a gazillion soldiers" but maybe a little more formal. Look up how 1000 is used elsewhere in the bible, and you'll see. "The Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills"... but there must be millions of hills on the earth, doesn't the Lord own the rest as well? :cool:;)
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by eclipsenow
If I read the bible literally I might end up very confused because while lots of it IS literal (history, biography, narrative) some of it is NOT literal (poem, metaphor, symbolism, apocalyptic, sonnet, psalm, parable).
You are confused because you don't

Are you to busy to spend the time to seek out the literal meanings of the symbols given?

Most are, and in exchange are willing to listen to teachers who would deceive them with their metaphorical mush instead

Is the Lord's prophetic word important for you to study and know .... or just a confused jumble of trivia that cannot be understood?
Wow, that was harsh :D

How come the Jews don't understand it?

After all, 12 of their tribes are mentioned in it ;)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7397815-27/#post52819480
Should Revelations be studied?

As Christians, and those anticipating the coming of our Lord, should it be of importance to the body of Christ to study and understand the last book of the bible?

There are many incorrect theories floating around about what Revelations teaches, this being the case, shouldn't the church have the best understanding (as good as possible that is) in regards to this book?

Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
Luke 2:32
A Light into a from-covering/apo-kaluyin <602> of Nations and glory of people of Thee Israel.

Revelation 1:1
An un-covering/veiling/apo-kaluyiV <602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him............

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

-------One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament.
You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!

That’s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.-----------



.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joyshirley
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Danoh, you're just playing with words! Apocalyptic literature has symbolism in imagery, biblical symbolism and of course the all important Jewish symbols of NUMBERS! 1000 is hardly ever used *literally* in the bible (unless maybe in the census). It is most often used to mean something to the effect of "God's perfect, really big number for something." I guess today it's like saying "He had a gazillion soldiers" but maybe a little more formal. Look up how 1000 is used elsewhere in the bible, and you'll see. "The Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills"... but there must be millions of hills on the earth, doesn't the Lord own the rest as well? :cool:;)

Am I Literally "playing with" words, or is that a figure of speech nevertheless conveying a Literal action?

Even the phrase "a figure of speech" itself is "a figure" conveying a Literal, lol
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Am I Literally "playing with" words, or is that a figure of speech nevertheless conveying a Literal action?

Even the phrase "a figure of speech" itself is "a figure" conveying a Literal, lol

I think you use the word 'literal' when you should use the word 'literary'.

PS: Chapter 1. Who did John say he was writing to? To people 2000 years later, or to his generation? Why does John say he already shares in their tribulation?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But before will His 1000 year kingdom which He will rule from Jerusalem on the earth come .... then His eternal kingdom .... first [Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 12; 14; Revelation 20] .... and then [Revelation 21]

No one should have a problem with this sequence clearly stated in the prophetic scriptures ..... but many do, particularly those who hold to replacement theologies and traditional kingdom now/dominion theologies

.... they are all antisemitic [against Israel] and think that their "church" organization has replaced national Israel and that their "church" is now ruling the earth in the Lord's millennial kingdom today, but this kingdom will not come until the Lord Himself brings it

Wow. Really? You're saying that anyone who believes Jesus currently reigns is antisemitic? That's quite the accusation.

No church has replaced national Israel. On the contrary, national Israel has replaced the church, in the minds of many like yourself. Don't you know that Christ is the root of Israel and that all the branches are holy? Only those who have Jesus can be holy, so how can an unbelieving Jew be a holy branch? They can't!

"Israel" is not defined by bloodline, but by faith. It has always been that way and will always be that way. The word Israel means kingdom of God and those who have faith are members of this kingdom. Those who are anti-Christ (such as the Jews, as well as anybody else who rejects Christ) have been cut out of the kingdom. This is clearly explained in scripture. So start reading the Bible and stop accusing people of racism because you don't understand what's been written.

And as for your sequence in Revelation, it is not stated the way you think. First of all, nowhere does it say that he will rule from earth during the thousand year reign. Secondly, Jesus clearly stated that his reign had begun after his resurrection. Third, Acts 3:21 clearly tells us that he will not leave heaven until the time of the new heaven and new earth. These things are clear.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Is the Lord's prophetic word important for you to study and know .... or just a confused jumble of trivia that cannot be understood?

Here is how many Sydney Anglican Amils would read Rev 20: something like this. And this all comes from respecting the hermeneutics. (The understanding of the recipients of the message back then).

1. 1000 HARDLY EVER LITERAL
1000 is hardly ever used literally in the bible. (See Footnote 1 below). One thousand is a number that celebrates completeness and impregnability in this context, like saying the "Third Reich will last a 1000 years".

2. MILLENNIUM REIGN IS THE CHURCH
Revelation is not a future timetable but a theological sermon encouraging Christians during the 2000 years and beyond. We are in the Last Days, and have been since the Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost. Peter said the Holy Spirit was a sign of these Last Days. (Acts 2:17. Also see Hebrews 1. We've been in the Last Days for 2000 years!). That is, Revelation describes the church age, the reign of the saints, the time of the Christians. It describes life here and now between Jesus ascension and his climactic and final return on Judgement Day.

3. NOT PREDICTIVE, BUT DESCRIPTIVE
Revelation doesn't *predict* any particular, specific event at all! We are not meant to read this as a future timetable. Instead it's a sermon describing certain theological themes, not particular future dates. It describes Satan's persecution of the church through *all* ages, and how sometimes (generally speaking) this will involve 'beast' States that rise up against God's people. It describes how Christians are meant to live in obedience to God and not trusting in this world's money or security or power. It describes the gospel and God's love for and protection of his people, even if they die. And, of course, it finally and symbolically describes that great Day of the Lord when Jesus will return in wonderful salvation and terrible justice. But we are not meant to look for clues as to when this will happen! That idea is foreign to the New Testament.

4. NO TIMELINE
Revelation has no timeline. There's no linear sequence of particular events all lined up in order. Rather it waltzes around and around some general theological themes, like the repeated theme of Satan's challenge to God and final defeat. We see this in Chapters 17, 19, and 20. It's like watching a sporting event with cameras from every angle. Once the final try is scored, we can see it up close and personal, then from the sidelines, and finally from a 'God's eye' view from heaven. Check it out!

5. GOD’S ULTIMATE RETURN AND JUDGEMENT OF EVIL IS DESCRIBED THREE TIMES FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES
In each repetitive sequence the beast does something, and then gathers for battle, and then is *completely* defeated by Christ. It's the same event from different angles, all of which describe Satan's attempts to wipe out God's kingdom on earth, and then God's victory on Judgement Day. Repeated again and again.

RETURN ONE: CHAPTER 17
In 17:7-14 the beast was, and is not, and then is again: with 10 horns (symbolic of great power) to persecute God's people, but is wiped out by the Lamb. (The use of the Lamb motif of course emphasises that our Lord's death on our behalf saves us. Should it surprise us that John keeps going back to focus on the gospel? He wants all Christians in all ages to *obey* this message, after all!)

RETURN TWO: CHAPTER 19
In 19:11-21 we see the emphasis from the point of view of the Kings of the Earth who are sometimes tricked by Satan into persecuting the church, especially through a 'false prophet'. This is symbolic of all the times false teaching corrupts government. The beast is defeated once again, but this time it is the Lord on a conquering horse! (Even though the blood is probably yet another reference to his sacrifice for us).

RETURN THREE: CHAPTER 20
Finally, in Chapter 20 we see that Satan is bound in a very specific way, and then rises to fight God's people and is defeated almost as an anti-climax. When God acts... it just happens. Game over. God has won!

So: what is Chapter 20 all about?
If Revelation keeps repeating the theme of Satan's war against God during this period and God's final victory over him, then what is different in Chapter 20? What angle is this 'action replay' from? It's from heaven! Verse 20:4 takes us back to the throne room (which we've already seen in Revelation Chapters 4 and 5). There we see martyred Christians who are safe with Christ in heaven.

We learn that even though Satan is very active against God's people (previous chapters), there is one specific way he is bound. He cannot deceive the nations. He cannot stop the forward march of the gospel. Satan is not bound totally, as some Dispensationalist seem to imagine. Rather this imagery is to be fitted into other sections describing this age. Satan is bound in a very particular way. He cannot stop Acts 1:8, the forward march of the gospel! This is not a promise that every nation will respond to the gospel, but that every nation will hear the gospel. Rev 20 is to be held in balance with the other chapters that show Satan to be very active indeed! But in *this* chapter is a very powerful fulfilment of the promise to Abraham, that his children (us) would bless the whole world!

Dispensationalists reduce this rich theological passage to one of seeminlgy arbitrary events. This then that then that. But why? Amillennialists see the biblical symbols in John's writings, and know that John was yet again crafting a rich theological lesson full of symbol and metaphor and meaning and purpose. Satan being bound from deceiving the nations is the great mystery fulfilled, that God's kingdom would go out to all the world, not just confined to Palestine.

Finally we have the martyrs. Satan could not stop their 'first resurrection'. They are safe. The second death or hell has no power over them. Did you get that bit? These Saints are dead Saints. The second death has no power over them, even though the first one did have power over them when they died! In John's gospel he describes Christians as moving from death to life. Literally the phrase in Revelation 20 is "they lived and reigned with Christ". They *lived*, not they were resurrected! Even though it says "This is the first resurrection" that's John talking symbolically about how these were *Christians*, people forgiven by Christ who had moved from death to life! After all the horror of the last chapters in Revelation, we are told that should we be killed for Christ we will be safe. The view of this chapter is from heaven.

That the 'first resurrection' is John's way of referring back to his gospel should not surprise us.

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

We *have* eternal life now, but are only raised up on the Last Day, not 1000 years before the Last Day! If this were a 'bodily' resurrection it would be 1000 years before the Last Day, and not fit with the rest of the New Testament let alone John's own gospel.

In John 11:24 John says:
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.""
Compare this to John's writing in Revelation 20. "They LIVED with Christ" and they did not need to fear the second death.

Reading 20:4-6 as the actual resurrection doesn't fit 20:11-15 which really *is* describing actual bodily resurrection!
///11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. ///

It's Judgement Day, the dramatic language of the bodily resurrection of *everyone*, both good and bad, which is why the book of life is necessary. This is the final sorting between good and evil, between believers and unbelievers.

If THIS is when believers were bodily resurrected, then verse 4 cannot be. The Christians 'lived' in the *heavenly* throne room we know from earlier chapters. In other words, verses 11 to 15 are Judgement Day, the sorting of the Sheep from the Goats. Which makes sense of the rest of the New Testament instead of doing violence to it. The great Judgement, the resurrection, the end of sin and Satan and death itself, indeed the end of this very universe and installation of the next all happen on the Last Day.



FOOTNOTE 1: 1000 HARDLY EVER USED LITERALLY IN THE BIBLE!

There ARE times when multiples of a thousand indicate an actual, 'close enough', literal number, such as when describing how many men went into battle or how many people they captured. But this is clear from the specific context. For example: 1 Chronicles 5:21
"They seized the livestock of the Hagrites—fifty thousand camels, two hundred fifty thousand sheep and two thousand donkeys. They also took one hundred thousand people captive,"

However these are usually in *multiples* of 1000. The USUAL usage of the actual symbol 1000 is anything but an actual number. It's like us saying 'about a gazillion' to modern ears. It's about exaggeration, not accuracy; it's about making a point, not counting; it's about completeness, not numbers.

The number 1000 is 10 times 10 times 10, the number of 'full completeness'. Just as the Hebrews repeated words 3 times for emphasis, for example, saying "Holy, Holy, Holy" instead of saying "God is extremely Holy", they also would throw some numbers together for emphasis. For example: 12 Tribes of Israel + 12 Apostles * 1000 (the complete number) gives you 144 thousand, the most complete number and picture of ALL God's people.

The two most conclusive verses that can ONLY be read as figurative for 'a gazillion' are;

Psalm 50:10
"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."
(Are literalists really going to conclude that God does not own the cattle on the gazillion other hills on planet earth?)

1 Chronicles 16:15
"15 He remembers[a] his covenant forever,
the promise he made, for a thousand generations,"
(1000 generations is being compared to 'forever'. Or are literalists going to say God backs out of His promises on generation 1001?)

But then many other verses also illustrate the number 1000 as 'a gazillion'.

Deuteronomy 32:30
"How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?"

Joshua 23:10
"One of you routs a thousand, because the LORD your God fights for you, just as he promised."

Job 9:3
"Though they wished to dispute with him, they could not answer him one time out of a thousand."

Job 33:23
"Yet if there is an angel at their side, a messenger, one out of a thousand, sent to tell them how to be upright,"

Psalm 84:10
"Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked."

Ecclesiastes 7:28
"while I was still searching but not finding— I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all."

Isaiah 30:17
"A thousand will flee at the threat of one; at the threat of five you will all flee away, till you are left like a flagstaff on a mountaintop, like a banner on a hill.”

Ezekiel 47:5
"He measured off another thousand, but now it was a river that I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in—a river that no one could cross."

2 Peter 3:8
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How come the Jews don't understand it?
Why would you expect the Jews to understand Revelation? Unless a man is born again and has the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-8), the entire NT is nonsense (1 Cor 1:18-25).

Also, to those who allow the theologies of men to get in the way, the book of Revelation has (a) either been fulfilled in its entirety and is therefore irrelevant, (b) fulfilled almost entirely, and therefore everything is metaphorical or to be spiritualized (e.g. 1,000 years is not really 1,000 years), or (c) there is no chronological progression simply because John inserts parenthetical comments along the way.

There are a multitude of Christians who have been hoodwinked into thinking that the Millennium is currently in progress. How much worse can it get? And when you tell them that they must be living in Wonderland, they get offended.
 
Upvote 0

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
MILLENNIUM REIGN IS THE CHURCH
If indeed this delusion is true, then the "church" is doing an extremely poor job of maintaining righteousness and peace on this earth. And Satan must have a good laugh every day at these poor deluded Christians who believe that they are maintaining "law and order" while he is "imprisoned". BTW the Anglican church has apparently banished the word "devil" from their theology recently.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Why would you expect the Jews to understand Revelation? Unless a man is born again and has the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-8), the entire NT is nonsense (1 Cor 1:18-25).
First, because apocalyptic literature was a variety of literary form common 200BC to 200AD. Second, I meant Christian Jews of the first century who were familiar with this material, and they would have explained it to the gentile Christians.

Also, to those who allow the theologies of men to get in the way
Nah! You don't get spiritual points for bad reading. Comprehending the category of literature is of first importance before trying to interpret and obey it.


There are a multitude of Christians who have been hoodwinked into thinking that the Millennium is currently in progress. How much worse can it get? And when you tell them that they must be living in Wonderland, they get offended.
1. The Millennium is in progress and has been for 2000 years!
2. How much worse? I guess we could start reading Shakespeare's poetry to fix car engines? That would make about as much sense as reading the theological symbolism of Revelation as a literal future timetable. I mean, what a load of rot. How was John's generation to OBEY a message written all about people that live 2000 years later? Just because this generation are so self-orientated doesn't actually make Revelation all about ME and MY generation, does it? You'd divide the thing up so that only little chunks actually applied to John's generation but most of it applies only to US! What a load of rot. Read Chapter 1 again please, and try and think about what John is asking his generation to do: read the message and obey it!

Otherwise, imagine I come to you with a prophecy about the Communist dictatorship on Mars in 4000AD. Now... obey it! Ummm?:doh:
 
Upvote 0

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
Why would you expect the Jews to understand Revelation? Unless a man is born again and has the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-8), the entire NT is nonsense (1 Cor 1:18-25).


Greetings Job8

Shabbat shalom







&#1492;&#1508;&#1511;&#1493;&#1500;&#1496;&#1492; &#1500;&#1502;&#1491;&#1506;&#1497; &#1492;&#1497;&#1492;&#1491;&#1493;&#1514;

&#1500;&#1513;&#1499;&#1514; &#1512;&#1489; &#1492;&#1511;&#1502;&#1508;&#1493;&#1505;

&#1491; &#1507; &#1513; &#1489; &#1493; &#1506; &#1497;

&#1502;&#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1497;&#1495;&#1497;&#1491;&#1492; &#1500;&#1500;&#1497;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497; &#1497;&#1505;&#1493;&#1491; &#1489;&#1497;&#1492;&#1491;&#1493;&#1514;

&#1502;&#1505;&#1508;&#1512; 525

&#1508;&#1512;&#1513;&#1514; &#1493;&#1497;&#1510;&#1488;, &#1514;&#1513;&#1505;"&#1491;

&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489;

&#1491;"&#1512; &#1512;&#1508;&#1488;&#1500; &#1497;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;

&#1497;&#1512;&#1493;&#1513;&#1500;&#1497;&#1501;



&#1500;&#1497;&#1497;&#1489;&#1493;&#1489;&#1497;&#1509; ' [1] &#1502;&#1510;&#1497;&#1497;&#1503; &#1513;&#1492;&#1505;&#1497;&#1508;&#1493;&#1512; &#1506;&#1500; &#1495;&#1497;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1488;&#1489;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1514;&#1493;&#1508;&#1505; &#1499;-58% &#1513;&#1500; &#1505;&#1508;&#1512; &#1489;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1497;&#1514;, &#1493;&#1502;&#1499;&#1488;&#1503; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1505;&#1497;&#1511; &#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1493;&#1497; &#1513;&#1492;&#1505;&#1508;&#1512; &#1497;&#1497;&#1511;&#1512;&#1488; "&#1505;&#1508;&#1512; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1488;&#1489;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493;", &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1505;&#1497;&#1511;, &#1513;&#1488;&#1501; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1488;&#1489;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1502;&#1493;&#1510;&#1490; &#1489;&#1505;&#1508;&#1512; &#1489;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1497;&#1514; &#1499;&#1488;&#1489;&#1497; &#1492;&#1492;&#1499;&#1512;&#1492; &#1489;&#1492;', &#1497;&#1497;&#1495;&#1493;&#1491;&#1493; &#1493;&#1488;&#1492;&#1489;&#1514;&#1493;, &#1499;&#1508;&#1497; &#1492;&#1502;&#1505;&#1493;&#1512;&#1514; &#1513;&#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1506;&#1489;&#1497;&#1512; &#1500;&#1489;&#1504;&#1497;&#1493;, &#1492;&#1512;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1488;&#1489;&#1497; &#1506;&#1501; &#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500; &#1489;&#1508;&#1493;&#1506;&#1500;. &#1492;&#1492;&#1497;&#1505;&#1496;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1506;&#1501; &#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500; &#1502;&#1513;&#1495;&#1494;&#1512;&#1514; &#1488;&#1514; &#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1489;&#1489;&#1495;&#1497;&#1504;&#1514; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1505;&#1497;&#1502;&#1503; &#1500;&#1489;&#1504;&#1497;&#1493;, [2] &#1497;&#1493;&#1514;&#1512; &#1502;&#1488;&#1513;&#1512; &#1488;&#1514; &#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1488;&#1493; &#1488;&#1514; &#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511;. [3] &#1490;&#1501; &#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1501; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1513;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1502;&#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493; &#1506;&#1501; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1488;&#1493; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511;. &#1500;&#1499;&#1503; &#1492;&#1514;&#1492;&#1500;&#1499;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1501; '&#1489;&#1504;&#1497; &#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500;' &#1499;&#1506;&#1463;&#1501;, &#1489;&#1499;&#1500; &#1492;&#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493;, &#1492;&#1497;&#1488; &#1499;&#1492;&#1514;&#1492;&#1500;&#1499;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1493;&#1500;&#1488; &#1499;&#1492;&#1514;&#1492;&#1500;&#1499;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1493;&#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511;, &#1493;&#1502;&#1499;&#1488;&#1503; &#1490;&#1501; &#1504;&#1490;&#1494;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1497; &#1492;&#1488;&#1502;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1489;&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489;. &#1500;&#1492;&#1500;&#1503; &#1504;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;&#1489; &#1489;&#1504;&#1493;&#1513;&#1488; &#1494;&#1492;.

&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1492;&#1497;&#1492; "&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1492;&#1492;&#1500;&#1497;&#1499;&#1492;" – "&#1500;&#1498; &#1500;&#1498; &#1502;&#1488;&#1512;&#1510;&#1498; &#1493;&#1502;&#1502;&#1493;&#1500;&#1491;&#1514;&#1498; &#1493;&#1502;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1489;&#1497;&#1498;" (&#1497;&#1489;:&#1488;). &#1493;&#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1492;&#1493;&#1500;&#1498; &#1500;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1500;, &#1500;&#1492;&#1512; &#1492;&#1502;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1492;, &#1500;&#1495;&#1489;&#1512;&#1493;&#1503;, &#1500;&#1489;&#1488;&#1512; &#1513;&#1489;&#1506;, &#1500;&#1490;&#1512;&#1512;, &#1500;&#1502;&#1510;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501; &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491;. &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1494;&#1511;&#1493;&#1511; &#1500;&#1506;&#1494;&#1512;&#1492; &#1510;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1488;-&#1500; &#1493;&#1500;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1506;&#1500; &#1499;&#1500; &#1510;&#1506;&#1491; &#1493;&#1513;&#1506;&#1500;, &#1493;&#1500;&#1499;&#1503; &#1502;&#1505;&#1493;&#1508;&#1512; &#1513;&#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1502;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489; &#1493;&#1502;&#1493;&#1513;&#1497;&#1506; &#1488;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1499;&#1502;&#1506;&#1496; &#1489;&#1499;&#1500; &#1488;&#1497;&#1512;&#1493;&#1506; &#1493;&#1488;&#1497;&#1512;&#1493;&#1506;. &#1497;&#1513;&#1504;&#1503; &#1499;&#1502;&#1492; &#1493;&#1499;&#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1497;&#1493;&#1514; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1500;&#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501;: &#1489;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1514; &#1489;&#1497;&#1503; &#1492;&#1489;&#1514;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501;; &#1488;&#1495;&#1512; &#1492;&#1497;&#1508;&#1512;&#1491;&#1493; &#1502;&#1500;&#1493;&#1496;; &#1489;&#1502;&#1510;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501;; &#1489;&#1513;&#1497;&#1500;&#1493;&#1495; &#1492;&#1490;&#1512;; &#1489;&#1505;&#1497;&#1508;&#1493;&#1512; &#1492;&#1506;&#1511;&#1491;&#1492; &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491;. &#1490;&#1501; &#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1514;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1489;&#1506;&#1514; &#1492;&#1502;&#1500;&#1499;&#1497;&#1501; &#1492;&#1497;&#1488; &#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1492; &#1504;&#1505;&#1497;&#1514;.

&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; "&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1492;&#1497;&#1513;&#1497;&#1489;&#1492;" – "&#1490;&#1493;&#1512; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509; &#1492;&#1494;&#1488;&#1514; &#1493;&#1488;&#1492;&#1497;&#1492; &#1506;&#1502;&#1498; &#1493;&#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1499;&#1498;" (&#1499;&#1493;:&#1490;). &#1492;&#1488;-&#1500; &#1502;&#1500;&#1493;&#1493;&#1492; &#1488;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; "&#1502;&#1488;&#1495;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497; &#1492;&#1511;&#1500;&#1506;&#1497;&#1501;" &#1489;&#1502;&#1490;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1493; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509;. &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1506;&#1497;&#1503; &#1489;&#1503; &#1514;&#1508;&#1504;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1506;&#1493;&#1502;&#1491;&#1514; &#1500;&#1493; &#1494;&#1499;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1489;&#1493;&#1514;. &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1489;&#1503; &#1502;&#1493;&#1506;&#1491;&#1507;. &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1500;&#1493; &#1502;&#1488;&#1489;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1502;&#1513;&#1508;&#1495;&#1514;&#1497;&#1497;&#1501; &#1499;&#1502;&#1493; &#1513;&#1492;&#1497;&#1493; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1506;&#1501; &#1506;&#1513;&#1493;, &#1513;&#1499;&#1503; &#1497;&#1513;&#1502;&#1506;&#1488;&#1500; &#1502;&#1505;&#1493;&#1500;&#1511; &#1502;&#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493; &#1506;&#1500; &#1497;&#1491;&#1497; &#1492;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1493;. &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1510;&#1512;&#1497;&#1498; &#1500;&#1506;&#1502;&#1493;&#1500; &#1499;&#1491;&#1497; &#1500;&#1513;&#1488;&#1514; &#1488;&#1514; &#1513;&#1488;&#1492;&#1489;&#1492; &#1504;&#1508;&#1513;&#1493;, &#1499;&#1497; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1502;&#1505;&#1491;&#1512; &#1500;&#1493; &#1513;&#1497;&#1491;&#1493;&#1498;. &#1493;&#1499;&#1503;, &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1510;&#1512;&#1497;&#1498;, &#1499;&#1502;&#1493; &#1512;&#1489;&#1511;&#1492;, &#1500;&#1492;&#1514;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1491; &#1506;&#1501; &#1492;&#1506;&#1491;&#1508;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1489;&#1503; &#1492;&#1496;&#1493;&#1489; &#1506;&#1500; &#1508;&#1504;&#1497; &#1492;&#1489;&#1503; &#1492;&#1512;&#1506;, &#1499;&#1497; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1488;&#1493;&#1492;&#1489; &#1489;&#1508;&#1513;&#1496;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1514; &#1506;&#1513;&#1493;, &#1500;&#1500;&#1488; &#1499;&#1500; &#1492;&#1505;&#1514;&#1497;&#1497;&#1490;&#1493;&#1514; &#1493;&#1492;&#1514;&#1500;&#1489;&#1496;&#1493;&#1514;.

&#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1506;&#1493;&#1494;&#1489; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509;. &#1514;&#1495;&#1493;&#1501; &#1492;&#1514;&#1504;&#1493;&#1506;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500;&#1493; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1489;&#1488;&#1494;&#1493;&#1512; &#1502;&#1510;&#1493;&#1502;&#1510;&#1501; - &#1489;&#1497;&#1503; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512; &#1513;&#1489;&#1506;, &#1490;&#1512;&#1512; &#1493;&#1495;&#1489;&#1512;&#1493;&#1503;. &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1504;&#1488;&#1489;&#1511; &#1506;&#1500; &#1502;&#1511;&#1493;&#1502;&#1493; &#1489;&#1514;&#1493;&#1498; &#1502;&#1513;&#1508;&#1495;&#1514;&#1493; &#1493;&#1502;&#1495;&#1493;&#1510;&#1492; &#1500;&#1492;, &#1493;&#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1502;&#1506;&#1493;&#1512;&#1489; &#1489;&#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1493;&#1514; &#1499;&#1502;&#1493; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1493;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489;, &#1502;&#1500;&#1489;&#1491; &#1492;&#1502;&#1488;&#1489;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1500; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501;, &#1513;&#1489;&#1492;&#1501; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1493;&#1497;&#1514;&#1512;. [4] &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1494;&#1493;&#1512;&#1506; &#1502;&#1488;&#1492; &#1513;&#1506;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501; &#1493;&#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1502;&#1510;&#1500;&#1497;&#1495; &#1489;&#1497;&#1491;&#1493;. &#1489;&#1510;&#1506;&#1497;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1497;&#1493;&#1510;&#1488; &#1500;&#1496;&#1497;&#1497;&#1500; - "&#1493;&#1497;&#1510;&#1488; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1500;&#1513;&#1493;&#1495; &#1489;&#1513;&#1491;&#1492; &#1500;&#1508;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514; &#1506;&#1512;&#1489;" (&#1499;&#1491;:&#1505;&#1490;), &#1489;&#1489;&#1490;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1488;&#1514; &#1488;&#1513;&#1514;&#1493; &#1489;&#1510;&#1492;&#1512;&#1497; &#1492;&#1497;&#1493;&#1501; (&#1499;&#1493;:&#1495;) &#1493;&#1489;&#1494;&#1511;&#1504;&#1514;&#1493; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1489;&#1511;&#1513; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493; &#1500;&#1492;&#1499;&#1497;&#1503; &#1500;&#1493; &#1502;&#1496;&#1506;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501; "&#1499;&#1488;&#1513;&#1512; &#1488;&#1492;&#1489;&#1514;&#1497;" (&#1499;&#1494;:&#1491;). &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1500;&#1495; &#1492;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509;, &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1510;&#1493;&#1512;&#1498; &#1500;&#1506;&#1494;&#1493;&#1512; &#1500;&#1493; &#1492;&#1512;&#1489;&#1492; &#1502;&#1513;&#1493;&#1501; &#1513;&#1508;&#1513;&#1493;&#1496; &#1492;&#1499;&#1500; "&#1492;&#1493;&#1500;&#1498;" &#1500;&#1493;. &#1512;&#1511; &#1489;&#1494;&#1511;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493;, &#1489;&#1492;&#1497;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1489;&#1503; 123, &#1502;&#1506;&#1512;&#1497;&#1502;&#1492; &#1506;&#1500;&#1497;&#1493; &#1512;&#1489;&#1511;&#1492; &#1493;&#1502;&#1491;&#1512;&#1497;&#1499;&#1492; &#1488;&#1514; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1500;&#1490;&#1504;&#1493;&#1489; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1512;&#1499;&#1492;, &#1493;&#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511; &#1495;&#1493;&#1493;&#1492; &#1495;&#1493;&#1493;&#1497;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1495;&#1512;&#1491;&#1492; &#1499;&#1513;&#1489;&#1504;&#1493; &#1502;&#1512;&#1502;&#1492; &#1488;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493;.

&#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1501; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1513;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1502;&#1491;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493; &#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1488;&#1489;&#1512;&#1492;&#1501; &#1493;&#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1510;&#1495;&#1511;. &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1492;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1495;&#1492; &#1493;&#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1491;&#1493;&#1514;, &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1492;&#1491;&#1512;&#1502;&#1492; &#1493;&#1492;&#1496;&#1512;&#1490;&#1491;&#1497;&#1492;; &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1488;&#1504;&#1493; &#1512;&#1493;&#1488;&#1497;&#1501; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1489;&#1499;&#1500; &#1502;&#1492; &#1513;&#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1492; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489;, &#1493;&#1489;&#1502;&#1497;&#1513;&#1493;&#1512; &#1492;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1497; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1499;&#1514;&#1493;&#1489; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1493;&#1514;&#1497;&#1512; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1500;&#1492;&#1514;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1491; &#1499;&#1502;&#1506;&#1496; &#1500;&#1489;&#1491; &#1489;&#1502;&#1513;&#1498; 147 &#1513;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514; &#1495;&#1497;&#1497;&#1493;. &#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497;&#1501; &#1502;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1492; &#1500;&#1493; &#1495;&#1502;&#1513; &#1508;&#1506;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501; &#1489;&#1502;&#1512;&#1493;&#1493;&#1495;&#1497; &#1494;&#1502;&#1503; &#1490;&#1491;&#1493;&#1500;&#1497;&#1501;, &#1493;&#1489;&#1499;&#1500; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1489;&#1496;&#1497;&#1495; &#1500;&#1493; &#1492;&#1489;&#1496;&#1495;&#1493;&#1514;, &#1499;&#1508;&#1497; &#1513;&#1497;&#1508;&#1493;&#1512;&#1496; &#1500;&#1492;&#1500;&#1503;, &#1488;&#1498; &#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1506;&#1493;&#1513;&#1492; &#1500;&#1502;&#1506;&#1504;&#1493; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1492;&#1510;&#1500;&#1492; &#1502;&#1502;&#1513;&#1497;. &#1490;&#1501; &#1489;&#1492;&#1493;&#1508;&#1506;&#1514; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1489;&#1495;&#1500;&#1493;&#1501; &#1500;&#1500;&#1489;&#1503;, &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1502;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489; &#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1497; &#1513;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1499;&#1489;&#1512; &#1508;&#1514;&#1512; &#1488;&#1514; &#1489;&#1506;&#1497;&#1493;&#1514;&#1497;&#1493; &#1489;&#1506;&#1510;&#1502;&#1493;, &#1493;&#1492;&#1510;&#1500;&#1495;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1495;&#1492; &#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1493;&#1489;&#1496;&#1495;&#1492; &#1500;&#1493; &#1502;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;. &#1499;&#1502;&#1493;-&#1499;&#1503; &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1502;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489; &#1489;&#1491;&#1512;&#1502;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1511;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1499;&#1493;&#1512;&#1492; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493;, &#1500;&#1488; &#1489;&#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1490;&#1504;&#1489;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1512;&#1499;&#1492; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493; &#1493;&#1488;&#1507; &#1500;&#1488; &#1489;&#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1492;&#1514;&#1512;&#1502;&#1497;&#1514; &#1513;&#1500; &#1500;&#1489;&#1503; &#1493;&#1489;&#1502;&#1499;&#1497;&#1512;&#1514; &#1497;&#1493;&#1505;&#1507; &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491;.

&#1500;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1502;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1492; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1489;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514;-&#1488;&#1500;, &#1499;&#1488;&#1513;&#1512; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1489;&#1493;&#1512;&#1495; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493;, &#1493;&#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1489;&#1503; 63 &#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501;. [5] &#1502;&#1499;&#1488;&#1503; &#1513;&#1500;&#1499;&#1488;&#1493;&#1512;&#1492; &#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1489;&#1506;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1504;&#1497;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1511;&#1493;&#1491;&#1501; &#1500;&#1499;&#1503;. &#1502;&#1492; &#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1506;&#1491; &#1490;&#1497;&#1500; 63? &#1506;&#1500; &#1508;&#1497; &#1492;&#1502;&#1491;&#1512;&#1513; &#1511;&#1504;&#1492; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1499;&#1493;&#1512;&#1492; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493; &#1489;&#1490;&#1497;&#1500; 15. [6] &#1502;&#1499;&#1488;&#1503;, &#1513;&#1489;&#1497;&#1503; &#1511;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1499;&#1493;&#1512;&#1492; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1493; &#1500;&#1489;&#1497;&#1503; &#1490;&#1504;&#1489;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1512;&#1499;&#1492; &#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1493; 48 &#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501;.

&#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1492; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1489;&#1513;&#1504;&#1492; &#1492;-97 &#1488;&#1493; &#1492;-98 &#1500;&#1495;&#1497;&#1497;&#1493;. &#1489;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1494;&#1493; &#1488;&#1502;&#1512; &#1500;&#1493; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1513;&#1497;&#1513;&#1493;&#1489; &#1488;&#1500; &#1488;&#1512;&#1509; &#1488;&#1489;&#1493;&#1514;&#1497;&#1493;, &#1500;&#1488;&#1495;&#1512; &#1506;&#1513;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501; &#1492;&#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1492;&#1497;&#1492; &#1506;&#1501; &#1500;&#1489;&#1503;. [7] &#1499;&#1500;&#1493;&#1502;&#1512; &#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1492; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1499;- 35 &#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501; &#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1497; &#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1489;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514;-&#1488;&#1500;, &#1493;&#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1492;&#1504;&#1497;&#1495; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1500;&#1506;&#1489;&#1493;&#1512; &#1488;&#1514; &#1499;&#1500; &#1514;&#1500;&#1488;&#1493;&#1514;&#1497;&#1493; &#1489;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514; &#1500;&#1489;&#1503; &#1500;&#1500;&#1488; &#1506;&#1494;&#1512;&#1492; &#1493;&#1500;&#1504;&#1492;&#1500; &#1488;&#1514; &#1506;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1504;&#1497;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500;&#1493;, &#1506;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1504;&#1497; &#1502;&#1513;&#1508;&#1495;&#1514;&#1493; &#1493;&#1506;&#1505;&#1511;&#1497;&#1493; &#1506;&#1501; &#1500;&#1489;&#1503; &#1500;&#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489;&#1493;&#1514; &#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1497;&#1492;.

&#1489;&#1508;&#1506;&#1501; &#1492;&#1513;&#1500;&#1497;&#1513;&#1497;&#1514; &#1504;&#1490;&#1500;&#1492; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1502;&#1500;&#1488;&#1498; &#1489;&#1502;&#1506;&#1489;&#1512; &#1497;&#1489;&#1493;&#1511;, &#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1497; &#1508;&#1512;&#1497;&#1491;&#1514;&#1493; &#1502;&#1500;&#1489;&#1503;, &#1493;&#1497;&#1513; &#1500;&#1492;&#1504;&#1497;&#1495; &#1513;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1494;&#1493; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1505;&#1502;&#1493;&#1499;&#1492; &#1500;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1497;&#1492;. &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1504;&#1488;&#1489;&#1511; &#1506;&#1501; &#1492;&#1502;&#1500;&#1488;&#1498; &#1493;&#1504;&#1511;&#1506;&#1492; &#1499;&#1507; &#1497;&#1512;&#1499;&#1493;, &#1493;&#1490;&#1501; &#1499;&#1488;&#1503; &#1500;&#1488; &#1504;&#1488;&#1502;&#1512; &#1513;&#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1506;&#1494;&#1512; &#1500;&#1493;. &#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1512;&#1489;&#1497;&#1506;&#1497;&#1514; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1497; &#1502;&#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1491;&#1497;&#1504;&#1492;, &#1489;&#1489;&#1493;&#1488;&#1493; &#1502;&#1508;&#1491;&#1503; &#1488;&#1512;&#1501;, &#1493;&#1500;&#1488;&#1495;&#1512; &#1492;&#1496;&#1489;&#1495; &#1489;&#1488;&#1504;&#1513;&#1497; &#1513;&#1499;&#1501; (&#1500;&#1492;: &#1496;-&#1497;&#1488;). &#1490;&#1501; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1494;&#1493; &#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1500;&#1513;&#1501; &#1492;&#1510;&#1500;&#1492;, &#1488;&#1500;&#1488; &#1499;&#1491;&#1497; &#1500;&#1514;&#1514; &#1500;&#1493; &#1489;&#1512;&#1499;&#1492; &#1493;&#1492;&#1489;&#1496;&#1495;&#1492; - "&#1508;&#1512;&#1492; &#1493;&#1512;&#1489;&#1492; &#1493;&#1511;&#1492;&#1500; &#1490;&#1493;&#1497;&#1497;&#1501; &#1497;&#1492;&#1497;&#1492; &#1502;&#1502;&#1498;".

&#1492;&#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1499;&#1513;&#1492;&#1497;&#1492; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1489;&#1503; &#1502;&#1488;&#1492; &#1493;&#1513;&#1500;&#1493;&#1513;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1504;&#1492;, &#1500;&#1508;&#1504;&#1497; &#1497;&#1512;&#1497;&#1491;&#1514;&#1493; &#1500;&#1502;&#1510;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501;. ( &#1502;&#1493;:&#1489;-&#1491;). &#1499;&#1498; &#1497;&#1493;&#1510;&#1488; &#1513;&#1489;&#1502;&#1513;&#1498; 32 &#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501;, &#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1497;&#1497;&#1514;&#1492; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514;. &#1489;&#1508;&#1512;&#1496; &#1502;&#1493;&#1512;&#1490;&#1513; &#1495;&#1505;&#1512;&#1493;&#1504;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1489;&#1513;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1490;&#1493;&#1504;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1506;&#1500; &#1492;&#1497;&#1506;&#1500;&#1502;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1493;&#1505;&#1507;. &#1502;&#1493;&#1512;&#1490;&#1513; &#1495;&#1505;&#1512;&#1493;&#1504;&#1503; &#1513;&#1500; &#1502;&#1497;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1504;&#1495;&#1502;&#1492; &#1488;&#1493; &#1502;&#1500;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1489;&#1496;&#1495;&#1492;. &#1502;&#1490;&#1497;&#1500; 130 &#1493;&#1506;&#1491; &#1497;&#1493;&#1501; &#1502;&#1493;&#1514;&#1493;, &#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1493; &#1506;&#1493;&#1491; 17&#1513;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1489;&#1492;&#1503; &#1500;&#1488; &#1492;&#1497;&#1493; &#1500;&#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1506;&#1493;&#1491; &#1492;&#1514;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1497;&#1493;&#1514;. [8]

&#1499;&#1500;&#1500;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1491;&#1489;&#1512;, &#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1493;&#1511;&#1497; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489; &#1488;&#1497;&#1503; &#1492;&#1511;&#1489;"&#1492; &#1502;&#1514;&#1506;&#1512;&#1489; &#1489;&#1502;&#1497;&#1513;&#1493;&#1512; &#1492;&#1490;&#1500;&#1493;&#1497; &#1489;&#1492;&#1499;&#1493;&#1493;&#1504;&#1514; &#1495;&#1497;&#1497;&#1493; &#1513;&#1500; &#1497;&#1506;&#1511;&#1489;
 
Upvote 0

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
Wow. Really? You're saying that anyone who believes Jesus currently reigns is antisemitic? That's quite the accusation.


I think it's OK to believe Jesus currently reigns.

I also think it's OK to believe that in a little while Jesus will begin a brand new 1000 year reign WITH The Saints.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If indeed this delusion is true, then the "church" is doing an extremely poor job of maintaining righteousness and peace on this earth. And Satan must have a good laugh every day at these poor deluded Christians who believe that they are maintaining "law and order" while he is "imprisoned". BTW the Anglican church has apparently banished the word "devil" from their theology recently.

Where do you get the idea that the millennium is supposed to be heaven on earth? Revelation never says that the time of Jesus' reign would be a time of peace. Satan is bound, but that does not mean there is no sin. Sin will be here until the new heaven and the new earth, that's a fact. So how could the thousand year reign possibly be free of sin?

Don't you understand? The kingdom of Jesus is a spiritual kingdom. He said so himself just before he was crucified. "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, then my servants would fight.".

There is no thousand year reign on this earth where the lamb lies down with the lion and everybody stops to smell the roses because there is no sin. That's a fantasy. The world without sin does not become a reality until the new earth is revealed. That's what we have to look forward to, and that comes after the thousand year reign with Christ and after Christ hands over the kingdom to God the Father.
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Where do you get the idea that the millennium is supposed to be heaven on earth? Revelation never says that the time of Jesus' reign would be a time of peace. Satan is bound, but that does not mean there is no sin. Sin will be here until the new heaven and the new earth, that's a fact. So how could the thousand year reign possibly be free of sin?

Don't you understand? The kingdom of Jesus is a spiritual kingdom. He said so himself just before he was crucified. "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, then my servants would fight.".

There is no thousand year reign on this earth where the lamb lies down with the lion and everybody stops to smell the roses because there is no sin. That's a fantasy. The world without sin does not become a reality until the new earth is revealed. That's what we have to look forward to, and that comes after the thousand year reign with Christ and after Christ hands over the kingdom to God the Father.

You misunderstood what he meant...
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,351
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟144,453.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
You misunderstood what he meant...
Satan is bound during the figurative 1000 years (perfect amount of time between Jesus ascension and return)? Really? What does it actually say he is bound in regards to...?

Concluding that we can't be in the millennium because there is evil in the world is stretching what the verse says. Please take care that you do not make it say more than it does!
 
Upvote 0

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Greetings Job8
Shabbat shalom

Dave, Shalom to you too. Since I do not read Hebrew, can't respond to what you posted.

Not sure if you are a Messianic Jew (believer in Jesus Christ), but when someone uses the word "Jew" without qualification, then we apply the words of Paul to Israel while the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body) is being completed: "Blindness in part has happened to Israel" (Rom 9:25). So a Jew would have no clue about and no interest in Revelation. They are looking for another Messiah, not Yeshua ha Mashiach.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Where do you get the idea that the millennium is supposed to be heaven on earth?
Where do you get the idea that it isn't supposed to be? And on what authority do you dismiss Isaiah's prophecies as "fantasy"?

If that's the case, you could dismiss all of Scripture as fantasy. After all, how could God possibly be fully Man and fully God at the same time? How could God take the sins of the world upon Himself and yet remain God? Science fiction? Or cunningly devised fables? Is that your position, since theological liberals believe that?
 
Upvote 0