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Question that I have pondered

Level_Seven_Paladin

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Recently a person asked me "If a person never recieves the word of God, nor knew of a Christian God at all, would God be merciful to them?". My answer was that he would show the same mercy that "he would a child who dies at birth" and suddenly I am attacked for saying such being asked things like "Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?". Help me on this:help: , I felt I handled it well.... but I want your input.... a believers input.
 

Carrye

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bigcontry said:
Recently a person asked me "If a person never recieves the word of God, nor knew of a Christian God at all, would God be merciful to them?". My answer was that he would show the same mercy that "he would a child who dies at birth" and suddenly I am attacked for saying such being asked things like "Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?". Help me on this:help: , I felt I handled it well.... but I want your input.... a believers input.
Sounds like you did well, Bigcontry. :thumbsup: That's exactly what the Catholic Church teaches as well.

I wouldn't say that an athiest with the motive you've suggested (ignorance) would necessarily be doomed to Hell. It is God who judges souls, and so what we can do is trust each soul to the mercy of God.
 
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unimportantbuthisnameis

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If you were a Calvinistm you would simply say that the person was not one of God's elect, however because I'm not Calvinist that's not my viewpoint. Sadly, I must that the person who has died and never recieved or heard of Christ will be hel accountable for their sins. It hurts as a believer to know that happens to people, especially seeing that I, as a believer, am commanded to witness to them.
 
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Level_Seven_Paladin

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Thanks, Im starting to really understand better now. What the both of you said was similar to what I was trieng to explain. I kept trieng to tell them that God knows the heart and so on and they threw some baloney at me about "well, if a person has the heart to change when they find out they were wrong then why should a Christain witness to begin with", that really ticked me off somewhat for they were claiming that believers are the reason people go to Hell by now making the options clear... and thats not true. I please feel free to keep posting, I will apreciate it.
 
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Level_Seven_Paladin

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Jedi christian said:
Well, there's a difference between not knowing and not knowing you were WRONG. It seems to me that if you were a self-proclaimed Athiest, shouldn't you know that there are other things besides what you believe?
*Shakes hand* Thanks alot Jedi, that is what I was trieng to explain to a proclaimed Athiest who wanted to push me to say he would still go to Heaven, I didnt budge though. Quite frankly I dont see why a proclaimed Athiest would ask such anyway. Either you believer or you dont.. theres no in between.

Anybody else got anything?
 
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Locket

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Well... I don't exactly understand it either. My pastor talked about how each human being knows instinctively about God.

And if what you say is true... that a person who doesn't know won't be condemned then why are we telling them? Why reach them? If we tell and they don't receive we technically had a hand in condemning them. If they don't know they won't be hurt.
But God says to tell everyone. So really they have no excuse. It's instinctive.
 
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equal-minded

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im gonna have to agree with locket on this one. God does say to reach everyone and we all know God before we were created on Earth (we had to be somewhere didn't we?) dunno if thats right but makes sense to me, but i agree it is instinctive. reach out, make them beleive. if you try hard enough then they will listen. good luck
 
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Serapha

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bigcontry said:
Recently a person asked me "If a person never recieves the word of God, nor knew of a Christian God at all, would God be merciful to them?". My answer was that he would show the same mercy that "he would a child who dies at birth" and suddenly I am attacked for saying such being asked things like "Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?". Help me on this:help: , I felt I handled it well.... but I want your input.... a believers input.
Hi there!

:wave:

Every person hears.... that's one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit. Everyone has an opportunity. Read and re-read Romans chapter 1 and 2 concerning the invisible qualities of God, or do an internet search for the invisible qualities of God.

"Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?".
First of all, an athiest has no faith. Second, they have made a conscientious decision to have no faith. Knowing that, it is apparent that they utilized their free will to turn away from any teachings that have the right faith.


~serapha~
 
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rosemaree

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Locket said:
Well... I don't exactly understand it either. My pastor talked about how each human being knows instinctively about God.

.
To add in....I have been told by a pastor that there is no place on earth where the gospel has not been heard. I don't know is that is true, I have a hard time believing that but anyway...
doean't the Bible say that we have no excuse? Something like "the Heavens declare His handiwork"?? So let know man have excuse?
 
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Level_Seven_Paladin

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Serapha said:
Hi there!

:wave:

Every person hears.... that's one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit. Everyone has an opportunity. Read and re-read Romans chapter 1 and 2 concerning the invisible qualities of God, or do an internet search for the invisible qualities of God.


First of all, an athiest has no faith. Second, they have made a conscientious decision to have no faith. Knowing that, it is apparent that they utilized their free will to turn away from any teachings that have the right faith.


~serapha~
Thats what I was trieng to explain for about an hour or two, couldnt have said it beter myself. Oh yeah and I will be sure to search about the invisible qualities of God, funny coincidence (more likely the work of God) me and my roommate were talking about that walking to the movies last night, cool.

You all have really helped alot, words cant express how I feel right now but I guess I could sum it up by saying "Thank you".... Thank you.
 
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I would like to add something. It would seem unfair to all those who never were exposed to suffer in hell. You suffer for unbelief; you go to hell for unbelief. To have never known the truth does not constitute unbelief. So I see two possibilities. #1.People who never hear the Gospel would not benefit even if they heard (and this God would know from the beginning, though we, as man, would not). or #2.Those who never had a chance to hear the Gospel will have the chance someday, somehow. Or maybe I'm making no sense. lol
 
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Level_Seven_Paladin

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I think I understand, and by the way..... I took the time to do some reading. In my reading I found how it is our duty to spread the gospel (which I already knew) and that we must reaware a world that has chosen to turn a blind eye to the signs of God.

I guess that may not have made sense, what I got form my reading is that at one time ALL man knew of God and his works.... but as we spread about the world we soon began to drop what we knew and created false Gods (or none at all). In all, anything that a person doesnt know is cause of failue of past generations to pass on (Thats why we must spread the gospel). I hope that came out the way it sounded in my head, what you all have said and what I have read has really helped, thank you.
 
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BlessedVegan

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Serapha said:
First of all, an athiest has no faith. Second, they have made a conscientious decision to have no faith. Knowing that, it is apparent that they utilized their free will to turn away from any teachings that have the right faith.
I don't believe an atheist neccacarily has made a conscientious decision to turn away from faith. If you never had faith you don't turn away from it. Most people are not born with internal faith it must be nurtured by their family. When I was an atheist I never had any "faith", I don't remember ever having it. I think if everyone were born with faith then everyone would automatically believe in God, which obviously isn't the case.
 
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holyroller2005

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bigcontry said:
Recently a person asked me "If a person never recieves the word of God, nor knew of a Christian God at all, would God be merciful to them?". My answer was that he would show the same mercy that "he would a child who dies at birth" and suddenly I am attacked for saying such being asked things like "Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?". Help me on this:help: , I felt I handled it well.... but I want your input.... a believers input.
I dont know...I agree with you in a way. But people have different opinions on things. It says that whosoever believeth in ME, shall not perish but have everlasting life. We need to believe. But I can tell you what to do. Pray and ask God for help on this one. Seek His help and you'll find the right words to say. Blessed be the name of the Lord!
 
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Level_Seven_Paladin

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We should make sure to use the word "Atheist" lightly. Theres a difference between not believing in something cause you dont know period..... and not believing in something cause we flat out refuse to. I dont know much about it, but by being Atheist it means that you just choose not to accept a Christain God (though you know that there is one to believe in).

Yeah.... I agree that we arent just born with faith (I could be wrong) but God does show himself to us in some way shape or form, so in the long run there is no excuse.

*Edits after reading last post*

Yeah, Ive read and prayed on it and now I understand better. Matthew really helped out.
 
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SPALATIN

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bigcontry said:
We should make sure to use the word "Atheist" lightly. Theres a difference between not believing in something cause you dont know period..... and not believing in something cause we flat out refuse to. I dont know much about it, but by being Atheist it means that you just choose not to accept a Christain God (though you know that there is one to believe in).

Yeah.... I agree that we arent just born with faith (I could be wrong) but God does show himself to us in some way shape or form, so in the long run there is no excuse.

*Edits after reading last post*

Yeah, Ive read and prayed on it and now I understand better. Matthew really helped out.
No we are not born with faith. In fact our own will causes us to sin everyday. We do not have free will in the Spiritual realm when we are dead in our sin. We can only choose to sin. Only the Holy Spirit has the power to regenerate us and he does it with the word of God. We can only reject him as we have no power or desire to choose that way.

It is by Grace that we are saved through faith and not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works so that we can not boast. Eph 2:8-9.

BTW. . . Atheisism is adherence to the belief that there is no God.

The word Agnostic would signify that a person believes in a higher form but is not sure what it is or is undecided about it.
 
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D

Dmckay

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Level_Seven_Paladin said:
Recently a person asked me "If a person never recieves the word of God, nor knew of a Christian God at all, would God be merciful to them?". My answer was that he would show the same mercy that "he would a child who dies at birth" and suddenly I am attacked for saying such being asked things like "Then why cant an Atheist who doesnt know that they have the wrong faith go to Heaven?". Help me on this:help: , I felt I handled it well.... but I want your input.... a believers input.

I don't know if you will care for this answer, but since you asked… I was asked a question at my ordination council about children dying and going to heaven. There is only 1 possible passage that this can even be implied from and that is King David's response when he was asked why, after his son with Bathsheba died that he stopped his grieving process that he had undergone since the child was born dying. His response was that he knew that he would see his son in heaven. One verse is not sufficient to base a doctrine upon. Just because David believed that he would see his dead child in heaven doesn't mean that he was correct. Even allowing for the possibility that the Lord had calmed David's heart in answer to his prayers that he would indeed see his son in heaven that doen't mean that every baby that dies automatically goes to heaven.

Many different denominations believe and teach an age-of-accountability which says that before a certain age God doesn't hold a person accountable for their sin or sin nature. If that age of accountability isn't less than age two then there is something wrong about the whole concept of the terrible twos. Because at a very young age children know that they are doing wrong and do it deliberately. Again there is no Scriptural basis for teaching that there is an age of accountability, before which one doesn't have to answer for sin. Otherwise abortion would be the surest way to ensure that your children go to heaven.

No man seeks after God, no, not one. No man comes to the Father save the Father draw him. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who supress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so the they are without excuse.

If a person, no matter where they live, no matter how isolated they are responds to the amount of truth that they are born with in a positive way God will get the message to them. Consider the Macedonian vision. I have read reports of Missionaries from Godless pagan countries that have reported that the first time they heard the story of Christ the natives they were speaking to responded with something like, "Oh we know all about Him, we didn't know His name, but we knew what He did, and that you would come."

The unsaved, whether they have heard or not are without excuse because God has revealed Himself inside us and in nature around us so that His invisible attributes, divine nature and eternal power should be known. So that they are without excuse.
 
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