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Question: Speaking in Tongue

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DawnTillery

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I have been to a church before where a lot of people were speaking in tongue, the gentlemen that was preaching prior to this said.... that there were some scrolls where Moses was speaking to God that could not be interrupted and it was Moses praying to God and because satan was close by, the prayer was in tongue so satan could not interrupt it..
So does that mean noone else could of interrupted it either or do they have to be in spirit or is the entire scripture about language instead of tongue?
I am asking for explanation on this scripture
(If this isnt the correct place to ask this, please point to me another thread)
Thanks
1 corinthians 14:27-28
Verse 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two,or at the most three, and that of course ; and let one interpret.
verse28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
 

sandman

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These verses are in context with the rest of chap 14, where Paul by revelation is setting the doctrine for those in Corinth where there was obvious confusion with tongues, interpretation, and prophecy.

Verse 27 sets the standard for tongues in a meeting.

27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; {in order} and let one {same one or each one} interpret.

The Greek text employs the word heis meaning “the one in the same” not someone else.
Other examples of heis are in I Cor 14:5 & 13; Luke12:52; Romans3:30


28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
But in verse 28 sets in contrast that in verse 27 “if there be no interpreter” or “if he lacks the will to interpret” let him keep silent in the church …
 
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chilibowl

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"that there were some scrolls where Moses was speaking to God that could not be interrupted and it was Moses praying to God and because satan was close by, the prayer was in tongue so satan could not interrupt it.."

Ask him to show you where in scripture is this president shown? Ask him if it is ever used again? if yes ask for chapter and verse... if no then Is what he saying in tounges to god so imporant, that the whole of history from the time of moses to him has not seen a need to use this method?? "Including the 12 and Jesus" If he can not show you any biblical princapal or more imporantly chapter and verse that countermands the written word of corinthians, then by his fruit he in a false teacher, in that he speaks against what the bible teaches in light of scripture.. "Techenicaly this is blaspheme"
 
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DawnTillery

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sandman said:
These verses are in context with the rest of chap 14, where Paul by revelation is setting the doctrine for those in Corinth where there was obvious confusion with tongues, interpretation, and prophecy.

Verse 27 sets the standard for tongues in a meeting.

27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; {in order} and let one {same one or each one} interpret.

The Greek text employs the word heis meaning “the one in the same” not someone else.
Other examples of heis are in I Cor 14:5 & 13; Luke12:52; Romans3:30


28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
But in verse 28 sets in contrast that in verse 27 “if there be no interpreter” or “if he lacks the will to interpret” let him keep silent in the church …

Still a little confused...
I am assuming you are saying.... that noone else can interrupt what they are saying?
 
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DawnTillery

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chilibowl said:
"that there were some scrolls where Moses was speaking to God that could not be interrupted and it was Moses praying to God and because satan was close by, the prayer was in tongue so satan could not interrupt it.."

Ask him to show you where in scripture is this president shown? Ask him if it is ever used again? if yes ask for chapter and verse... if no then Is what he saying in tounges to god so imporant, that the whole of history from the time of moses to him has not seen a need to use this method?? "Including the 12 and Jesus" If he can not show you any biblical princapal or more imporantly chapter and verse that countermands the written word of corinthians, then by his fruit he in a false teacher, in that he speaks against what the bible teaches in light of scripture.. "Techenicaly this is blaspheme"
I will look for these items I was speaking of and send them to you.
 
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vinc

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I have been to a church before where a lot of people were speaking in tongue, the gentlemen that was preaching prior to this said.... that there were some scrolls where Moses was speaking to God that could not be interrupted and it was Moses praying to God and because satan was close by, the prayer was in tongue so satan could not interrupt it..
You could have asked him where those scrolls were so that you could read them yourself to believe this story which he has told in the church.

So does that mean noone else could of interrupted it either or do they have to be in spirit or is the entire scripture about language instead of tongue?
Yes. This is true that no other person may understand while a christian is praying in tongues according to 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.". This verse is sufficient to make us understand this point.

I am asking for explanation on this scripture
1 corinthians 14:27-28
Verse 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two,or at the most three, and that of course ; and let one interpret.
verse28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The above verses clearly mean what they say. That if there is no interpreter in the Church then let him/her keep silence instead of speaking in unknown tongues. But, some churches allow there members to speak in tongues as a spiritual exercise.

The entire Chapter of 1 Corinthians 14 explains a lot about Speaking in Tongues.

Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:18,19 - "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.". This clearly explains that it is better to speak a few words in our own tongue which the majority of the church members can hear rather than speak thousands of words in an unknown tongue. Although Apostle Paul could speak more in tongues than others there, he disciplined himself to not to speak in tongues when present in the church.

Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:4,5 - "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.".

From the above 2 verses we can grasp, that a christian who speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. But, a christian who prophesies edifies (spiritually benefits or strengthens) the church. Also Apostle Paul says that he wanted all to be able to speak in tongues but more than that he wanted them all to prophesy. Because the one who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues as the one who prophesies edifies everyone present in the church gathering. Whereas one who speaks in tongues ought to be interpreted so that everyone may understand what he was speaking and be spiritually edified and benefitted through him/her. And Prophesy means, according to my opinion, a word from the Lord directly in an understandable language.

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 - "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified."

Here, Apostle Paul says, let the person who has the Gift of Tongues pray that s(he) may recieve the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues too. For he says, that when he prays in an unknown tongue, his spirit prays but he is not able to understand what he prays. So, he wants to pray with the spirit and pray with understanding also i.e in the language that he understands. And he want to sing with the spirit and sing with understanding also i.e in the language that he understands. And if he prays in an unknown tongue how will those who occupy the room understand it and say Amen to it. Although one may be giving thanks to God but other christians in the room who are listening to you are not edified by it.

1 Corinthians 14:21,22 - "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."

Paul says above that Tongues are for a sign to non-believers as they see that the scripture is being fulfilled. And Prophesying helps those who believe.

1 Corinthians 14:23-25 - "23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

Apostle Paul says further in the above verses that if unlearned people or non-believers come to the church and see all speaking in tongues, they may say that the church members are mad. But, if all prophesy in a common langauge, then the unlearned person or non-believer is convinced, convicted and the secrets of his/her heart is exposed and so s(he) understands, humbles, repents and worships God and will say that God is indeed in you.

Apostle Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 14:31 "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." that we may all speak the Word from God, in a common language, one by one so that all may learn and be comforted.

He also says in 1 Corinthians 14:32 "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." which means that one can control his/her spirit while s(he) Prophesies or Speaks in Tongues based on the set guidelines.

Finally Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:26 "....Let all things be done unto edifying." and in 1 Corinthians 14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order.".

Sometimes when we recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit we also recieve the Gift of Tongues along with it according to Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

In Acts 2:5-11, "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." we see that when the disciples spoke on tongues the people who were present there heard them speak in their own language although the disciples themselves did not know nor learn their languages. And the people realised that it was indeed a wonderful miracle of God that each one was able to understand in their own language. This kind of Gift of Tongues can really edify the people who hear us. And there was no need of any Interpreter. And they were all astonished and amazed at this miracle although some of them that the disciples were intoxicated with wine and behaving and talking like that. But, Apostle Peter stood before all of them and explained to them. Then, they gladly recieved his word and were baptized. They were totally 3000 souls who were saved that day.

Also the Gift of Tongues is only one Gift of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and each christian has a proper Gift of God.

A christian may be Baptised in the Holy Spirit but might not have recieved the Gift of Tongues yet. So, receiving the Gift of Tongues and recieving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit are 2 different things. Sometimes, one also receives the Gift of Tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time.

This is my honest personal opinion on this topic.
 
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mrs.wilde

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mrs.wilde said:
i simply discern churches by their fruit. we can say all scriptual things but its only a lipservicing. it requires a lot of work to see the fruit of christianity. if we ourselves are not wholehearted christians we can not discerned if they are true followes or not.
love mrs wilde
i just learned that tongue in Bible means language. if you speak more than one language you have a gift of tongue. so those speaking tongue churches practices are un-biblical. all they are doing is babbling! be careful every one. check it out if i am wrong. sincerely.
 
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Endure2

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uhh.... people.

the bible is too clear.

1 cor 14.2
for the that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not to men but unto God; for no man understandeth him...

no it is not going to be understandable all the time. no it is not going to always be in a recognisable language, no there may not be anyone able to understand it present. the spanish language sounds like gibberish to be but it doesnt matter. and the bible says you arent always going to understand this either, it said that sometimes NO MAN understands it.

it sounding like babbling to you means nothing.

no it is not always for people to understand, no it does not always need to be interpretted becuase it isnt to people anyway, but its to God.

though yes i understand you dont need to do this outloud in a church when there is no no one to interpret it.

and in verse 28, when the author expounded open the meaning of SILENT IN THE CHURCH. he said it mean just keep it between yourself and God.
doit it quietly.

becuase verse 14 says
FOR IF I PRAY IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE...

we can pray to God in tongues, it isnt always a message for people or the church, sometimes its just us praying to God.
it isnt for you, about you, and isnt to be interpretted for you.

though i understand that in a church setting "where most of the time we are not" that i have no business speaking in tongues outloud when it will not be interpretted.
 
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Endure2

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mrs. wild

"TONGUE" meaning language, does not mean that you knowing more than language means you have the gift of tongues.

paul said this is a gift of the spirit chosen and given by the holyspirit himself.
he classed it together with miracles, healings, sighns and wonders, prophecy.....
things that come from the divine power of God alone.

it isnt something you get from your spanish class in school.
though im not going to belabor the obvious.
 
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NJA

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Speaking in tongues is God's sihn of entering the new covenant / becoming born again. Moses was under the old covenant. The old covenant is a foreshadow - God led his people by a way they didn't know in the natural sense, through the wilderness, into the promised land. Tongues is allowing God to lead you in prayer because only he knows his perfect will for you in the future...

1Co:2:9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Ro:8:26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

That's the *main* use of tongues. There is also the meetings-use or "gift of tongues" where 1 person at a time speaks out in tongues, followed by a gift of interpretation where God speaks through someone else in a language that is understood.

Few churches do these things, so don't be surprised at the confusion on the subject !

1Co:14:37: If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
 
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Sketcher

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mrs.wilde said:
i just learned that tongue in Bible means language. if you speak more than one language you have a gift of tongue. so those speaking tongue churches practices are un-biblical. all they are doing is babbling! be careful every one. check it out if i am wrong. sincerely.
But that doesn't mean that taking a few Spanish classes will get you speaking in tounges. It's a gift from the Spirit - Check out Acts 2. Now, if someone by the Holy Spirit started speaking Spanish when they had no training in that language at all - then they're speaking in tounges.

And I recommend studying up on 1 Corinthians 12-14. That'll tell the rest you need to know about tounges.

NJA said:
Ro:8:26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

That's the *main* use of tongues. There is also the meetings-use or "gift of tongues" where 1 person at a time speaks out in tongues, followed by a gift of interpretation where God speaks through someone else in a language that is understood.
You can do that with or without tounges. The "groaning" does not refer to tounges. Rather than "glossa," the word for tounges, it is "Stenagmos" - only used elsewhere when talking about the Isrealites in Egypt.
 
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NJA

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The intersession (prayer) is *with* groanings", i.e. with desire/ spiritual thirst which is filled by the living water - tongues is drinking that drink.

ALL christians are told to pray in the Holy Spirit, so they all obviously knew what this is !
Jude speaks of people who "separate themselves" (say they are holy) but who *don't* have the Spirit, and contrasts there with "you beloved" who are to “build up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit” (v19-21). . . so how do you do this ?

In 1 Corinthians 14v15-16 Paul says:-
"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when you bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupies the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understands not what you say ?"

. . . if he blesses / prays with the spirit, others will not understand !
Some people think the following verse gives an alternative for people who don’t speak in tongues:-
Romans 8v26: Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
They substitute their own groaning (which does not edify them) for the Spirit's groaning (the word means cry). If people don't have the Spirit it is no surprise that they groan !

The only way given of “praying in the Holy Spirit” is in tongues:-
1Cor.14v2, 4: For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries . . . he . . . edifies himself.
v14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

The Spirit of God knows ALL things, so he has the words to express our need so we can pray according to the will of God. He is “the Comforter” who relieves us of our human failings.

On the same subject we have:-
Zechariah 12v10: “And I will POUR UPON the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace AND OF SUPPLICATIONS” (supplications is prayer)

. . . there is "one Spirit" (Eph. 4v4) that was "poured out" beginning at Jerusalem:-
“they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, AND began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance . . . And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will POUR OUT of my Spirit upon all flesh” (Acts 2v4, 17)

Then with the gentiles the “like gift” (the Holy Spirit) was also “poured out” - see Acts 10v45, 11v14-18.

Jerusalem was where God set up his temple in the Old Testament, it was also to be the beginning place of the New Testament. Those who receive God's Spirit are now his temple (1 Cor. 6v19, 2 Cor. 6v16).
Mark 11v17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer?
. . . when people of all nations become God's temple by receiving the Spirit, they pray (supplications) in tongues.
 
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Sketcher

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However, Paul himself writes in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 that not all believers have the gift of tounges, and he also states very clearly that they are no less in the Kingdom of God than those who can. God knows I'm saved and He knows that I've prayed to speak in tounges if He willed. He didn't will. And He reassured me that I am saved and have the Spirit.

Furthermore, the context of Romans 8:26 is not tounges, but God being there for us. The Lord knows our minds and our hearts, and the Spirit is able to perfect our requests without our help or immediate knowledge.

It is possible to pray in the Spirit and not pray in tounges. How do I know? Because I've done it before. Your heart needs to be as close to the center of God's will as possible, that is how you do it.
 
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NJA

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The gift of tongues refers specifically to the meetngs-use, *giving* to the church. This is obvious if you read the context since chapter 11 and even the verses in the same chapter say "to one is given... wisdom...knowledge...faith...tongues..." (vv8-10). No-one ever suggests that only "one" christian gets these other things, but then we live in a world where 'churches' have replaced true bible salvation (detailed in Acts) with man's words-only traditions where people replace God's life and power with their own "goodness".

God's goodness / grace is that ALL are "filled", i.e. all have Jesus Christ, and you cannot receive Jesus WITHOUT his mind, or power or other attributes (see also 1 Cor. 1v4-7). The new tongue signifies the new heart, just like God gave a specific sign for entering previous covenants. It is precisely because all christians are fully equipped that there needs to be limitation and order when all meet. This is what "the gifts" passage addresses.
 
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Tenorvoice

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I am sorry but I have to do this :)


Just to throw some humor in here.


add_toon_info.php
 
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Sketcher

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NJA said:
God's goodness / grace is that ALL are "filled", i.e. all have Jesus Christ, and you cannot receive Jesus WITHOUT his mind, or power or other attributes (see also 1 Cor. 1v4-7). The new tongue signifies the new heart, just like God gave a specific sign for entering previous covenants. It is precisely because all christians are fully equipped that there needs to be limitation and order when all meet. This is what "the gifts" passage addresses.
And this passage refers to the church, not the individual. The "you" is collective.

Also, I thought belief came before the Holy Spirit. You're saying we need to have the Spirit before we can even believe.
 
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