Question on speaking in tongues

[JesusServant]

Today at 12:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

Apparently that is the case.  You do not want to see it, your mind is made up.  I pray that God would open your eyes and give you an experience regarding tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were now made perfect and no longer needed the guiding of the Holy Spirit.

That Scripture is the one and only "proof text" that Baptists (the church I currently attend - who the preacher and his wife pray in tongues but cannot tell other members of the church because they wouldn't understand as you don't) and other denominations use to say that God let the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit go away. 

Read the very next chapter NOA (1st Cor 14 that I posted) you apparently did not.  Why would Paul say the gifts of the Spirit ceased to exist in chapter 13 and then turn around in chapter 14 and say that he would have everyone speak in tongues and that they should pray for the gift of prophecy?  


 

 

[JesusServant]

Today at 12:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Here, I'll post it again since my last post was too long for you and was ignored... This time I'll post the most pertinent Scripture that Paul wrote AFTER the Scripture you are holding onto and just posted...


(1 Corinthians 14:2) For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Hello?  Read what that says in 14:2 over and over until it sinks in please.  Notice that he says no man understands!  If he was speaking in a "real language" wouldn't a man somewhere be able to understand?  Hello? 

(1 Corinthians 14:4) He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

(1 Corinthians 14:5) Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

(1 Corinthians 14:39) Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[JesusServant]

BTW, I apologize if I sound snippy NAC, I don't mean to be. But it seems I cannot get this across to people here. I too was ignorant to the gifts and especially tongues and I have to try and get through to people the truth which was never brought to my attention and I feel the need to bring it to the attention of others. I feel terrible now that I made fun and didn't understand then and praise God that He showed me. You should've seen my eyes the first time I spoke in tongues, you would've thought they'd just pop right out of my head. I was in shock, but my soul was uplifted and I felt a burden leave me and an uplifting from it. I promise you tongues are real, and I know some people misuse tongues and some probably even fake it for their own gain, I don't know, all I know is that the gift is real and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 01:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Xnot A citizenX

So you believe that this "one" scripture nullifies all the one's JesusServant and I gave you?????

What do you believe the "perfect" is, that it has already come and done away with prophecy, tongues, and knowledge.  Are we not still learning things?  Obviously, knowledge is not gone so why would we assume that prophecy and tongues is gone.  

Jesus is the One that is Perfect and He has NOT returned yet.  When He does, these things will no longer be needed because then we will see Him face to face.  We will know Him fully.  Just as fully as He knows us.  Until then, we still need these gifts He gives us.

Again, speaking in tongues is not required in order to be a Christian, but it certaintly will help you be a more victorious one.

Quaffer

 

[SUNSTONE]

I bet I pray a ratio of 10 to 1 in tongues than in the truth(words of my own understanding.

Even at work I do, I am carefull not to do it around other people. If they hear me, they usually think I am babbling and don't even pay any attention.

I worship in tongues more than anything, but then there are times I feel the urge to just pray in tongues.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 04:02 PM SUNSTONE said this in Post #105

I bet I pray a ratio of 10 to 1 in tongues than in the truth(words of my own understanding.

Even at work I do, I am carefull not to do it around other people. If they hear me, they usually think I am babbling and don't even pay any attention.

I worship in tongues more than anything, but then there are times I feel the urge to just pray in tongues.

I pray in tongues most when I don't know what to pray.  Like in the forums where somebody shares a prayer request.  I pray in tongues so that the Spirit does the praying and intercedes for the correct things. 

In my own understanding I don't know that I can pray for the things and changes that are "really" needed, according to God.  And as I pray in tongues, often, thoughts pass through my mind and then I pray with understanding (in English) and in the direction that the thought took me. 

I also pray in tongues when I become frustrated and don't know what to do or say.  Again, the Spirit begins making intercession, for my need.  What He knows I need, not what I think I need. 

When I do this, sometimes, I hear the most amazing things flow out of my mouth.  Giving answers to people that I never would have thought of on my own.  The Spirit making intercession and revealing what to say.  Of course, I don't do this out loud with  people who don't understand.

I worship and praise in tongues.  It causes me to go higher in my worship of Him.  It brings a close fellowship so I know that the Spirit is praising through me and I am worshipping Him in the way that He likes best.

By praying in tongues I receive the strength to be a victorious Christian.  One who is not overcome but overcomes. 

This experience of tongues is fully backed up in Rom 8:26-28.  It does not specifically say tongues but verse 26 says the Spirit makes intercession for us with unspeakable yearnings and groanings.

I believe tongues, as a prayer language is for ALL believers.  I believe this because, God is not a respector of persons (Romans 2:11) therefore, He would not give only some believers a gift that built them up but keep it away from others.

Not All believers have the gift of tongues but as a prayer language, it is offered to all who want it.  Contrary to some peoples opinions, it is up to you. 

 

[Xnot A citizenX]

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.  So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today. 1 Cor.13:8

 

[Andrew]

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.Ê So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today.Ê1 Cor.13:8

The perfection simply cannot mean the completion of the Bible.
Obvious reasons here:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/cessation.html

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 02:40 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #107

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.  So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today. 1 Cor.13:8

IF that is true then that would also mean that you are now perfect.  You now see Him face to face and you know Him just as fully as He knows you.  (1 Cor 13:10-12)  Since knowledge has passed away, there is nothing new for you to learn because you now know it all.  You operate and hear God perfectly. 

Is that the case?

 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Amen

If the gifts went away, then why do we have teachers?and evagelists?
If we never needed healing, then wouldn't that mean that we never get hurt?

 

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 01:40 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #107

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.  So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today. 1 Cor.13:8

Perfection is the completion of the Bible? 

 

[JesusServant]

19th March 2003 at 02:36 PM Quaffer said this in Post #104




Xnot A citizenX

So you believe that this "one" scripture nullifies all the one's JesusServant and I gave you?????

What do you believe the "perfect" is, that it has already come and done away with prophecy, tongues, and knowledge.  Are we not still learning things?  Obviously, knowledge is not gone so why would we assume that prophecy and tongues is gone.  

Jesus is the One that is Perfect and He has NOT returned yet.  When He does, these things will no longer be needed because then we will see Him face to face.  We will know Him fully.  Just as fully as He knows us.  Until then, we still need these gifts He gives us.

Again, speaking in tongues is not required in order to be a Christian, but it certaintly will help you be a more victorious one.

Quaffer

Excellent post Quaffer.  However, I urge you to let it go.  He isn't ready.  I was in his shoes at that age and I too was just trying to hold on to false teachings. 

 

[Xnot A citizenX]

I haven't been listening to any false teachings.  I went I studied I researched read a lot prayed had conversations with people that is about it.  I have come to the conclusion on my own.  Not because of what someone else has told me.  I thank all of you for your help though.

 

[aus_koala]

Xnot a citizenX,
dont take the rest of this post the wrong way. It is not a criticism but just trying to point out that we are not always aware of Gods plans and His timings. You should continue to believe in God, accept salvation through Jesus Christ and continue to spend time examining His word and he will reveal to you the things you need at the time it is required for you and for His glory.


Quaffer and JesusServant,
it is possible that God has hardened his heart to this at this stage. We can pray for people but we must be praying that all things happen in Gods way as his way is the perfect way. He knows what will happen in the future and we do not. There may be a reason for him to have "ears that dont hear or eyes that dont see". This even occurred with the Apostles if you read Mark 8.

Some people claim that a person with a hardened haert is due to Satan. Well my reading of scriptures shows that God himself can do this. My personal experience is that God does this because the time is not right. He will open the ears, open the eyes or soften the heart IN HIS TIME.


From Mark 6:
Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed, 52for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

From Mark 8:
Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don't you remember?

From Exodus 10:
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them

From Joshua 11:
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel

From Romans 9:
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

From Romans 11:
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[

 

[Andrew]

Where in the Bible does it say that tongues is the "least" gift??

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Andrew,

I thought there was a verse that distinctly said tongues was the least but at the moment can't find it. I did find though 1 Cor 12:27-28 (NKJ) "Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. "

It appears that Paul is listing the gifts in their order. But we see that tongues is not necessarily the only "least" gifts. . . "then gifts of healings, helps, adminstrations, varieties of tongues." These last four giftings seem to be lumped together and equal in importance.

Thanks for asking that question Andrew, I never noticed that before.

 

[Andrew]

Yes Quaffer, but if one reads the entire chapter, Paul is talking about the members of the body of Christ, ie you and me, no the gifts for the gifts dont make up the body of Christ. And so He says:

20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, ÒI have no need of you,Ó nor again the head to the feet, ÒI have no need of you.Ó
22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,

So my point is that scripture really doesnt seem to grade the gifts at all, unless one assumes that order of listing implies gradation. If anything, then, it grades the members of the body ie the people. Yet we are told "the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable".

hope you get my drift.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Here is a web site which has a course of lessons that will help you:
http://www.bereanonline.com/rcframe.html
Go to the link: "The School" and select the Course "How To Prophesy".

1. Not only does God want you to pray in tongues, He also wants you to prophesy.
2. You can learn how to pray in tongues and prophesy... and unless you are without speech, you already have: and just did not know what you were doing at the time. If you have ever said "Abba" from out of your spirit, you were speaking in tongues. If you ever followed with "Father" from out of your spirit, you were interpreting. If you have ever just said "Father" from out of your spirit without tongues... you were prophesying. This is the baby talk of every born again Christian. The words are in there. They are in us all. All you have to do is speak them.
3. The Spirit of God does not speak in tongues, your spirit does. If you are waiting for God to take over your voice and force you to speak, then you are in for a long wait. He gives "utterance", which is a manifestation in the mind and vocal organs of a person. He does not do the speaking, you do:
"When I pray in an unknow tongue, my spirit prays...."
Paul 1 Cor 14

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 08:34 PM Andrew said this in Post #117

Yes Quaffer, but if one reads the entire chapter, Paul is talking about the members of the body of Christ, ie you and me, no the gifts for the gifts dont make up the body of Christ. And so He says:

20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, ÒI have no need of you,Ó nor again the head to the feet, ÒI have no need of you.Ó
22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,

So my point is that scripture really doesnt seem to grade the gifts at all, unless one assumes that order of listing implies gradation. If anything, then, it grades the members of the body ie the people. Yet we are told "the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable".

hope you get my drift.

Well, I have read the whole chapter but I never looked at it that way before. 

Thanks Andrew.

 

[JesusServant]

21st March 2003 at 11:56 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #113

I haven't been listening to any false teachings.  I went I studied I researched read a lot prayed had conversations with people that is about it.  I have come to the conclusion on my own.  Not because of what someone else has told me.  I thank all of you for your help though.

Let me apologize for saying that the way I did NAC,I could have been more tactful.  I do believe that any teaching that says that the Holy Spirit is dormant is wrong and I cannot help be remain steadfast and strong in my new found freedom with the Holy Spirit as my guide.  I am not saying you do not have the HS because we're told you cannot profess Jesus is Lord without it.  What I am saying is that you may be missing out on much more that what you have experienced thus far.  For example, dancing in the spirit.  It's okay to jump up and down and scream while grown men tackle each other over a pigskin, but don't dare jump up and down and shout praises to God in this society.  All I can say is, "let go my friend."  Let go and it will be shown to you. 

I had to let everything go to the Lord.  It wasn't until I didn't care about anything of this world but to know God that God moved.  I didn't care if my marriage fell apart, if I lost my job, my house, my cars, etc. etc.  It wasn't until then that God moved, showed me visions, gave me a heart of flesh instead of stone and put things back in better order than I could have ever done myself in 10 times the length of time.  God is awesome!