Question on Noah's Ark

[Abraxos]

To avoid the funneling effect, it would take multiple humans or whatever within a species to gain all that is needed in the first place to reproduce without serious problems. In fact, I think I once heard the same objection raised for Noah's Ark. That being the limit of people on the Ark would cause a funneling effect of DNA. I do not remember the technical term.

The technical term is often illustrated by a bottleneck of too many people trying to go through the same line or door at the same time at a store.

So, how did the limited number of people on Noah's Ark create enough variation to account for the many variations in the human race scientifically speaking?

This question is assuming evolution is true, and that there was not a special creation which would have all the genes or DNA necessary to produce all the types of dogs that exists today.

Young Earth Creationists would often answer this question by claiming that one pair of dogs on the Ark had all the kinds or types of dogs in their DNA or genes.

Personally, I simply admit that I do not have an answer. And, this is one of the many questions, I have put on the back burner to ask God about when I get to heaven. Since, my mere 170 IQ is no where near that of God, I have no problem waiting for him to answer when I get there.

Note: A local flood position would not have this problem since other humans and animals could survive where there was not a local flood.

The only variations in human beings worth noting is colour of skin. Why would that pose a problem?

Flood legends are not in the least remarkable since the ending of the last ice age led to massive flooding in many areas all over the world. Sea levels rose about 200 m leading to the flooding for example of the Gulf of Arabia (@10,000 YBP) and the Black Sea Basin (@ 7600 YBP). The latter event is likely the basis of the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Noah Flood.

I think it is quite remarkable that nearly every culture (over 600) in the world has a flood legend, but what interests me isn't that nearly every culture has a flood legend. What interests me is that many of these cultures share very specific themes to each other, to the animals, the name of Noah (Nu'u for Hawaii, Nü Wa for China), to wickedness being the reason for the flood, even right down to the number of people saved, eight; And the list goes on. Something I'm not so quick to disregard as coincidence, but perhaps they all speak of the same event from the past.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure, you can test that.

Sorry -- I don't believe that.

It predicts an extreme genetic bottleneck in homo sapiens.

Again, I don't know what is meant by this "bottleneck" you're talking about.

It seems to me that you're saying Shem couldn't have given rise to the Jews; Ham couldn't have given rise to the Canaanites; and Japheth couldn't have given rise to the Europeans, given the short amount of time since the Flood.

Is this correct?

If so, let me ask you again:

What do you think that blessing from God was in the form of?

 

[Goonie]

The same place you hear Noah started in Mesopotamia, and the flood waters ended up in the Black Sea?

Or Adam and Eve spoke Jacobean English did Noah speak with a New Jersey accent?

 

[AV1611VET]

Or Adam and Eve spoke Jacobean English ...

What's the difference in saying that, and saying the world spoke some unknown (i.e., "heavenly") language?

... did Noah speak with a New Jersey accent?

Lingual New Jersey didn't exist at the time.

 

[Goonie]

What's the difference in saying that, and saying the world spoke some unknown (i.e., "heavenly") language?Lingual New Jersey didn't exist at the time.

True, but then I could say maybe Adam and Eve spoke Klingon, despite clear history saying Klingon is only a few decades old as a language. Bit like the known history of Jacobean English which dates to 500 odd years old.

 

[46AND2]

tldr past 170 IQ.

 

[AV1611VET]

tldr past 170 IQ.

Welcome back!

 

[46AND2]

Welcome back!

Thank you, sir. How are you?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry -- I don't believe that

Tough luck.

Again, I don't know what is meant by this "bottleneck" you're talking about.

Population bottleneck - Wikipedia

A population bottleneck (or genetic bottleneck) is a sharp reduction in the size of a population due to environmental events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, disease, or droughts) or human activities (such as genocide). Such events can reduce the variation in the gene pool of a population; thereafter, a smaller population, with a correspondingly smaller genetic diversity, remains to pass on genes to future generations of offspring through sexual reproduction. Genetic diversity remains lower, only slowly increasing with time as random mutations occur

It seems to me that you're saying Shem couldn't have given rise to the Jews; Ham couldn't have given rise to the Canaanites; and Japheth couldn't have given rise to the Europeans, given the short amount of time since the Flood.
Is this correct?

I'm not even going there, eventhough it's as good a path as any to show this story isn't sensical.

I'm just talking now about what the result is for the genome of a species if the population size is reduced so drastically. That is, the bottleneck it produces.

If so, let me ask you again:
What do you think that blessing from God was in the form of?

Dunno, don't care. It's irrelevant to the point being made.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thank you, sir. How are you?

I'm just fine! Long time no see!

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry ... I still don't get it.

And I'm being serious here.

* Wikipedia *

A population bottleneck (or genetic bottleneck) is a sharp reduction in the size of a population due to environmental events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, disease, or droughts) or human activities (such as genocide).

We call that a "judgment from God."

Such events can reduce the variation in the gene pool of a population;

Not to mention the population itself.

... thereafter, a smaller population, with a correspondingly smaller genetic diversity, remains to pass on genes to future generations of offspring through sexual reproduction.

There were four lines of "genetic diversity" after the Flood: Noah's, Shem's, Ham's, and Japheth's. Just how many are required?

Genetic diversity remains lower,

Not if God decrees otherwise. But let's say He didn't. Again, you have four lines of diversity getting off the Ark. How many do you need?

... only slowly increasing with time as random mutations occur.

Yes ... nature operates much more slowly than God in some areas. That's why nature had nothing to do with this.

 

[AirPo]

to Uranus?? sort of like a colonic rinse?

No, that would be if the water had come from Uranus.

 

[AirPo]

Simple answer. There was no modern DNA that we know about in that former nature! Adam and Noah and family could mate with family. That is evidence genetics were not the same! Not only that they lived about 1000 years.

That's not an answer, that's blather.

 

[JD16]

There were four lines of "genetic diversity" after the Flood: Noah's, Shem's, Ham's, and Japheth's. Just how many are required?

"The “magic number” of people needed to create a viable population for multi-generational space travel has been calculated by researchers. It is about the size of a small village – 160. But with some social engineering it might even be possible to halve this to 80."

“Magic number” for space pioneers calculated

Noah and his family were a group of 8 people, thats 5-10% of the minimum required......unless of course if Goddidit, then anything goes.

 

[AV1611VET]

Noah and his family were a group of 8 people, thats 5-10% of the minimum required......unless of course if Goddidit, then anything goes.

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.
Exodus 1:20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

 

[JD16]

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.
Exodus 1:20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

AV said it
I believe it
Call me insane
So be it!

Abracadabra!

 

[dad]

Well, I'm convinced.

Thanks. Took a while eh?

 

[dad]

That's not an answer, that's blather.

It is a perfect explanation. You need to address facts and share any knowledge you have about any aspect of the quote you cited. Example...DNA from Noah's day?

 

[AirPo]

It is a perfect explanation. You need to address facts and share any knowledge you have about any aspect of the quote you cited. Example...DNA from Noah's day?

The fact is that was not an explanation, it was blather.

 

[JackRT]

The fact is that was not an explanation, it was blather.

Absolutely correct! It was speculation based on no observable data --- commonly known as blather.