Question on Harris picture

[RocksInMyHead]

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Let's use a somewhat know height shall we. First, we know the bald man is at the foot of the stairs.

How do we know that?

 

[Hans Blaster]

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Let's use a somewhat know height shall we. First, we know the bald man is at the foot of the stairs. Second we know the man in the ball cap is in the front of the crowd.

We are supposed to believe that the bald man is half a football field away from the man in the cap. Yet they are almost identical in height.

How tall does that bald man need to be to be almost the same height as a man standing half a football field away?

Why do you think the bald man is at the foot of the steps and not much closer to the crowd. If you compare his size to the size of the door, it is clear that either the bald man is much closer to the photographer than the plane, or he is a 8-foot giant. Even turned at an angle, his shoulders are as wide as the door.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Yes and has been pointed out the crowd went from the plane all the way into the hanger.

This is incorrect. There is a significant distance between the people and the plane. The perspective of the photo makes it look like they are right up to the plane, but they are many yards away.

I am not an internet expert as others are, but I do know you can see the tarmac and the hanger and nothing else.

The people are there too. They're in that dark strip that lines up with the hanger in the reflection.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Based on what I've seen, there was at least 200-300 ft of separation between the plane and the crowd.

Listen to what you are proposing.

You are saying the distance from the front of this crowd to the aircraft.

Is close to the same distance as the goal line on this field from post to post.

 

[iluvatar5150]

First, I did not say it was several hundred - another poster whom I QUOTED did. You will have to bring that correction to them.

I know you didn’t make that claim. I was clarifying it for everybody.

Second - how do you specifically know they were 150' (half a football field) away? Did you have someone on the ground? Or are you just guessing?

NYT published an overhead diagram of the airfield, which included an outline of the plane. The crowd was at least one wingspan away from the plane. The 757 has a wingspan of 125’. I posted all of this in one of these threads. If it wasn’t here, it was the other one. Search my old posts for “wingspan.”

Third, if the are half a football field away, why do a number of pictures show the crowd so close you cannot see the bottom stairs?

Because of the angle of the camera and the distance it is from the plane. It’s basic geometry.

That is an assumption - based on what? Do you have a picture of a large SUV making a three point turn? How big is that SUV that is needs half a football field to turn around?

In the video of the event, several suv’s drive past the plane. One pulls up and then turns to back up to the plane. I’ve also posted this video in one of the threads.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Listen to what you are proposing.

You are saying the distance from the front of this crowd to the aircraft.

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Is close to the same distance as the goal line on this field from post to post.

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Yes. Forced perspective is funny like that. The angle that a photo is taken from, the focal length of the camera, and the points of reference available (or unavailable) to the viewer all have an impact on how we perceive the final product.

 

[Always in His Presence]

NYT published an overhead diagram of the airfield, which included an outline of the plane. The crowd was at least one wingspan away from the plane. The 757 has a wingspan of 125’. I posted all of this in one of these threads. If it wasn’t here, it was the other one. Search my old posts for “wingspan.”

Yes - it has a wing span - from tip to tip - only half of that span was facing the crowd. With the engine 12 feet out, that would be 50' 5".

First its 300 feet away - then 200 - then 150 to 200 - then many yards - then 125 feet which in reality is only 50 feet. which is more than enough for a full size SUV to turn. (18' 8").

It is why thinking people have such issues with the whole scenario.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yes. Forced perspective is funny like that. The angle that a photo is taken from, the focal length of the camera, and the points of reference available (or unavailable) to the viewer all have an impact on how we perceive the final product.

Show me ONE photo from a football game where the photographer was taking a picture showing a person on the goal line and another at the other end of the field and they looked the same size and height.

Do that and I'll believe you - right now - in doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense it is not true. My apologies top the internet photo experts.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Show me ONE photo from a football game where the photographer was taking a picture showing a person on the goal line and another at the other end of the field and they looked the same size and height.

Why would I need to show you that? There aren't any photos from the event that show a person next to the plane and a person in the crowd as the same height.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yes - it has a wing span - from tip to tip - only half of that span was facing the crowd. that would be 62' 5".

First its 300 feet away - then 200 - then 150 to 200 then many yards - then 125 feet which in reality is only 62 feet.

It is why thinking people have such issues with the whole scenario.

No, people are having issues because they don’t understand how geometry and cameras work, and they don’t bother to read threads before commenting. To wit: it wasn’t even the other thread where I posted the diagram of the airfield. It was earlier in this thread.

That post also has the video where you can see the suv’s driving by.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Show me ONE photo from a football game where the photographer was taking a picture showing a person on the goal line and another at the other end of the field and they looked the same size and height.

Do that and I'll believe you - right now - in doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense it is not true. My apologies top the internet photo experts.

The camera has to be far from both subjects in order for that to work. There’s not enough space on a football field to do that.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Why would I need to show you that?

To prove the accuracy of what you are stating as if it is fact. Supporting evidence established fact.

There aren't any photos from the event that show a person next to the plane and a person in the crowd as the same height.

Remember they are supposedly 300 feet away, or maybe 200, or maybe 150, or maybe 125.

The camera has to be far from both subjects in order for that to work. There’s not enough space on a football field to do that.

But there is on a taxi way at an airport?

 

[Always in His Presence]

That post also has the video where you can see the suv’s driving by.

Which they can easily do in 50' they don't need a football field length to turn around.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

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As I said when you first posted this picture: How do you know that the bald guy is at the foot of the stairs rather than immediately in front of the crowd?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

To prove the accuracy of what you are stating as if it is fact. Supporting evidence established fact.

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Remember they are supposedly 300 feet away, or maybe 200, or maybe 150, or maybe 125.


But there is on a taxi way at an airport?

In that photo the stair car is also not right next to the plane. Look at where the top of the stairs are and note where the door of the plane where the stairs would butt up against the fuselage is. And the bald guy is still not right at the bottom of the stairs either.

Bottom line, there is more than enough information and images in this thread to correct your confusion about what you see in the pictures and completely debunk the "fake AI generated\manipulated crowd" "conspiracy."

 

[Always in His Presence]

Bottom line, there is more than enough information and images in this thread to correct your confusion about what you see in the pictures and completely debunk the "fake AI generated\manipulated crowd" "conspiracy."

I never said it was real, fake or AI -

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

I never said it was real, fake or AI -

Perhaps not, but you opened your OP with "I know there is a lot of conspiracy theories etc.", which there aren't. There is exactly 1 and it has a known source. The information in this thread debunks it. All I was saying.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I’m

Perhaps not, but you opened your OP with "I know there is a lot of conspiracy theories etc.", which there aren't. There is exactly 1 and it has a known source. The information in this thread debunks it. All I was saying.

Sure there are, a number of them have been referenced already.

Thanks for participating.

 

[iluvatar5150]

But there is on a taxi way at an airport?

Yes. What's important is the relationship between the distance from Camera to Subject A (call that Da) and the distance from Camera to Subject B (call that Db). On a football field, there are 100 yd between the goal lines; each end zone is 10 yd deep; and there's maybe another 10yd worth of apron surrounding it. So, if the two subjects are on opposite goal lines, they're 100yd apart, but for an on-field photographer, the farthest he could be behind Subject A is 20yd. So Da is 20yd and Db is 120yd - that's a 6:1 difference, which means that in a photo, Subject A will appear 6x larger than Subject B.

Eyeballing some measurements from NYT's overhead pic, it looks like the camera is about 170'-180' from the front of the crowd. It's hard to know where in the building the camera is, so I'm assuming it's back of house center. This eyeballing also puts the port wingtip about 140' from the crowd and the exit door about 214' from the crowd.

If Subject A is at the front of the crowd and Subject B is at the airplane door, then Da is 180' and Db is 394', which is a 2.18:1 ratio. Somebody at the front of the crowd will look twice as large as somebody at the plane. You can see this when Harris steps out of the plane - she's quite a bit smaller than the people in the crowd.

But most of that doesn't really matter, because the picture you called out was taken before the ladder truck had moved next to the plane. Before it moved, it was much closer to the crowd.

You can see the ladder truck move at around 28:18 in the video to which I linked earlier and to which I'll link again. You can even see baldy if you look close.

After the truck starts to move, a SS agent (big black guy) walks behind it and then to the right of it. He takes about 35 steps to get to the base of the stairs, which puts the distance walked at somewhere around 100'. The stair truck itself is about 30' deep. So, in that photo, Baldy was at least 130' from the door, or no more than 85' from the front of the crowd. So if Da for somebody in the front row is 180', then Db to baldy is 265'. Worst case, Baldy should look no more than 32% smaller than the people at the front.

More than likely, he's even closer to the crowd than that, which would make any apparent differences even smaller.

 

[Hank77]

Big Red on the left must be about 8-9 feet tall. White shirt on the right is also enormous.

Big Red's waist height is very close to being at the top of the head of the woman standing behind her. That would make Red's legs approx. 5"4', 5"6' long. I think she is standing on something.