I am an atheist (was a fundamentalist christian for the first 17 years of my life, I am 21 now) because I do not believe there is any evidence to support the belief that God is real. I am completely open to believing in a god, if only there were evidence, what sort of evidence can anyone here provide me? I am terrified of non existence in death (which is what I believe). I am not trying to troll.
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Question from an atheist.
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Hi, I am glad that you have asked to see evidence, I enjoy sharing my evidences with anyone who has an open mind (and those who don't). But I ask you not to act foolishly as you read but read with soberness what I have written because I am not the type of person to give you trow away comments or meaningless babble. Below is a list of stories from my life that prove to me that there is a God.
One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.
Some time after the second Gulf War an Australian man Douglas Wood was captured by terrorists in Iraq, who made demands for a ransom or he would be executed. I set about fasting and praying for his release, I said to God "You know where he is....tell me". Three words entered my mind ABC, Bizaar and "A-meal". I thought "I am going crazy what has all that got to do with him. Bizaar I though "this is Bizarre". I thought maybe "A-meal" is a town so I searched a map of Iraq for a town of that name, but found nothing that really matched. Some time latter Douglas Wood was freed by US troops who came across his captors. It was not until latter that I actually discovered what the three words meant. I was on a forum libertyunites.us and came across a post by a user called ABC in the post she appealed to the captors to release Douglas Wood because he had gone to a/or the Bazaar and bought food for homeless people and had provided them with "A-meal". I believe God saw this action too and blessed Douglas Wood with an escape from his captors.
One time I thought about suing some one but felt bad about it because I did not want to give a bad impression about what a Christian is like. So I prayed and asked God to show me clearly what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, selecting a random verse and it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?" So I knew what God was thinking, no lawsuit. From this I don not believe God was saying all law suits are wrong just this one was.
At one point in my life I was praying for scientific cures for illnesses like cancer. Because I was on a science kick I thought would it not be fun to create a real life dinosaur. I wanted Jesus just for fun to show me how to create a Real Live Dinosaur, he can show us anything you know if he wants, but when I asked him how to start recreating a Dinosaur. Jesus spoke into my head the sentence "I bood", it entered my mind when I was awake, a term I had never heard before. I decided to look it up on the Internet and I found out the following: You see, the children of Semai are taught from an early age, the concept of "bood." If a parent asks a child to do something and the child replies "I bood," in other words, "I don't feel like doing that," the matter is closed. Bood means gently No.
One day I was witnessing to a Muslim and he asked me why we ate pork. I used the verse out of the bible which says "It is not what enters the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth". After some general discussion I finished for the night. I asked God to give me a verse from the bible to encourage me. I opened the bible at random and selected a random verse. It opened to the exact same verse that I had used with the Muslim. The one about food not defiling. So I knew that God was approving of what I had been talking about.
"What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him "unclean.'"- Mat 15:11
One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.
Some time after the second Gulf War an Australian man Douglas Wood was captured by terrorists in Iraq, who made demands for a ransom or he would be executed. I set about fasting and praying for his release, I said to God "You know where he is....tell me". Three words entered my mind ABC, Bizaar and "A-meal". I thought "I am going crazy what has all that got to do with him. Bizaar I though "this is Bizarre". I thought maybe "A-meal" is a town so I searched a map of Iraq for a town of that name, but found nothing that really matched. Some time latter Douglas Wood was freed by US troops who came across his captors. It was not until latter that I actually discovered what the three words meant. I was on a forum libertyunites.us and came across a post by a user called ABC in the post she appealed to the captors to release Douglas Wood because he had gone to a/or the Bazaar and bought food for homeless people and had provided them with "A-meal". I believe God saw this action too and blessed Douglas Wood with an escape from his captors.
One time I thought about suing some one but felt bad about it because I did not want to give a bad impression about what a Christian is like. So I prayed and asked God to show me clearly what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, selecting a random verse and it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?" So I knew what God was thinking, no lawsuit. From this I don not believe God was saying all law suits are wrong just this one was.
At one point in my life I was praying for scientific cures for illnesses like cancer. Because I was on a science kick I thought would it not be fun to create a real life dinosaur. I wanted Jesus just for fun to show me how to create a Real Live Dinosaur, he can show us anything you know if he wants, but when I asked him how to start recreating a Dinosaur. Jesus spoke into my head the sentence "I bood", it entered my mind when I was awake, a term I had never heard before. I decided to look it up on the Internet and I found out the following: You see, the children of Semai are taught from an early age, the concept of "bood." If a parent asks a child to do something and the child replies "I bood," in other words, "I don't feel like doing that," the matter is closed. Bood means gently No.
One day I was witnessing to a Muslim and he asked me why we ate pork. I used the verse out of the bible which says "It is not what enters the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth". After some general discussion I finished for the night. I asked God to give me a verse from the bible to encourage me. I opened the bible at random and selected a random verse. It opened to the exact same verse that I had used with the Muslim. The one about food not defiling. So I knew that God was approving of what I had been talking about.
"What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him "unclean.'"- Mat 15:11
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There is evidence for "the possibility of God" which is sufficient for others to choose to "believe" in God. So there is evidence to "support" belief in God, evidence that you find lacking.
You say you are completely open to believing in God, but you must have made up your mind that God does not exist, otherwise you would be agnostic.
You say you are terrified of "non existence" but that could possibly be sarcasm.
Then you say you are not trolling. Me thinks you protest too much.
What line of evidence for the "possibility of God?" The physical universe had a beginning, a big bang so to speak. Something transcendent, outside of the physical realm, caused the big bang. This transcendent cause could be God.
Have you ever wondered why Atheists spend so much time pointing to the Old Testament, and saying God's directions to Israel were not moral? Is it not to justify in there own minds their rejection of God's grace?
You say you are completely open to believing in God, but you must have made up your mind that God does not exist, otherwise you would be agnostic.
You say you are terrified of "non existence" but that could possibly be sarcasm.
Then you say you are not trolling. Me thinks you protest too much.
What line of evidence for the "possibility of God?" The physical universe had a beginning, a big bang so to speak. Something transcendent, outside of the physical realm, caused the big bang. This transcendent cause could be God.
Have you ever wondered why Atheists spend so much time pointing to the Old Testament, and saying God's directions to Israel were not moral? Is it not to justify in there own minds their rejection of God's grace?
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Genesis 49:1-2 this is a future statement and where we find our context
Genesis 49:10 the scepter represents kingship, Judah will always have a king ship until Shiloh comes. Shiloh means Messiah. When was the last time Judah had a king? According to Josephus it was Herod the Great. Since that time there has been no kingship, who during that time would've been a perfect fit for Messiah? A man who followed Every one of G-ds commands and taught others to do likewise? Yeshua the Messiah.
May I ask was it depth you were looking for or a deeper meaning to life and that is why you gave up christianity?
I did as well once I began to find out the truth. Like the above verse in Matthew 15 this goes hand in hand with Mark 7, we see that Messiah is talking about the washing of hands and utensils before the eating and even during the eating. Messiah would have never followed the Lords commands and taught others to break them (sin) this would have made him a hypocrite and not the Messiah.
Genesis 49:10 the scepter represents kingship, Judah will always have a king ship until Shiloh comes. Shiloh means Messiah. When was the last time Judah had a king? According to Josephus it was Herod the Great. Since that time there has been no kingship, who during that time would've been a perfect fit for Messiah? A man who followed Every one of G-ds commands and taught others to do likewise? Yeshua the Messiah.
May I ask was it depth you were looking for or a deeper meaning to life and that is why you gave up christianity?
I did as well once I began to find out the truth. Like the above verse in Matthew 15 this goes hand in hand with Mark 7, we see that Messiah is talking about the washing of hands and utensils before the eating and even during the eating. Messiah would have never followed the Lords commands and taught others to break them (sin) this would have made him a hypocrite and not the Messiah.
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I almost stopped reading there, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences, and anecdotal evidence is far from extraordinary; its nothing really for the purpose of proving anything. I could provide evidences from my life why there isn't a god by saying "Once I asked god to show me a shooting star if he was real and he didn't." or "I asked god to not let my grandfather die a painful death but he didn't". I accept your life stories as evidence for god's existence no more that you would accept those two blips from my life as evidence for there not being a god.
What are these evidences?
During my 'de-conversion' I desperately tried to ignore the various problems I saw with the christian god and for the existence of a god in general. My ideas were my own, not the product of anything I had read, I prayed so hard countless times that god would help me believe and understand, I wanted the comfort of knowing what happened when I died. That was four years ago and I am still an atheist.
Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief, it has to do with whether or not a thing is knowable. Agnosticism and Atheistism are not mutually exclusive. I call myself an Atheist out of convenience as it is a short word that says that I do not believe in a god. Technically I am an Agnostic Atheist Secular Humanist, Agnostic because I realize that I can not know with 100% certaintity that there is a god and athiest because my belief is that there isn't a god.
Believe me or not, I truly am, but just because I don't like something doesn't change how true it is or isn't.
What was the cause of god? This explanation has the same problems the big bang has, Where did the particles/energy for the big bang come from(the source of 'everything). OR Where did god come from (the source of everything). It is just replacing 'big bang' with 'god'.
So the atrocities committed by god or by the direction of god to Israel should just be ignored because it doesn't fit with the Christian's idea of a loving god?
It was truth, the 'bs' answers for all the problems of christianity that I believed when I was younger made less and less sense as I grew older.
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What are the evidences? Surely you considered them when you "de-converted."
Are the big bang and God the same thing? No, the Big bang happened, or at least there is enough evidence for most folks to believe it happened. A physical happening. Something had to cause the big bang. A transcendent cause, a cause from outside the universe. To equate the big bang with God is nonsense. And God is the "Uncaused Cause." So you can accept God or reject God, but you cannot reject that God possibly caused the big bang.
Next you engage in defining words contrary to the dictionary. This indicates you are not so "open" but rather defensive. Atheists say God does not exist, Agnostics say they do not know if God exists, but they do not deny the possibility God exists.
So the atrocities committed by god or by the direction of god to Israel should just be ignored because it doesn't fit with the Christian's idea of a loving god?
Why put these words in my mouth? You came here claiming you were not a troll, yet you make straw-man arguments, just like a troll. Whatsupwiththat? God has the right of the Potter over the clay, He can mush any and all of His creation for whatever reason. Just because God acted in ways that do not seem right to you, who are you to judge God? I ask again, why do you focus on God's action in the Old Testament to bring folks to the promised land, and then sustain a line that culminated in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Are the big bang and God the same thing? No, the Big bang happened, or at least there is enough evidence for most folks to believe it happened. A physical happening. Something had to cause the big bang. A transcendent cause, a cause from outside the universe. To equate the big bang with God is nonsense. And God is the "Uncaused Cause." So you can accept God or reject God, but you cannot reject that God possibly caused the big bang.
Next you engage in defining words contrary to the dictionary. This indicates you are not so "open" but rather defensive. Atheists say God does not exist, Agnostics say they do not know if God exists, but they do not deny the possibility God exists.
So the atrocities committed by god or by the direction of god to Israel should just be ignored because it doesn't fit with the Christian's idea of a loving god?
Why put these words in my mouth? You came here claiming you were not a troll, yet you make straw-man arguments, just like a troll. Whatsupwiththat? God has the right of the Potter over the clay, He can mush any and all of His creation for whatever reason. Just because God acted in ways that do not seem right to you, who are you to judge God? I ask again, why do you focus on God's action in the Old Testament to bring folks to the promised land, and then sustain a line that culminated in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
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Look at those same questions in a Hebrew mindset, theres a free strongs concordance on Scripture4all - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software that will help. You'll find that they dont even preach the same Messiah located in the NT.
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ittarter
Non-Metaphysical Christian Critic
When you say, "God is real," what do you mean? As a self-described humanist, what does it mean if something is "real"? If it means quantifiable, empirical, as defined by scientific enquiry, you aren't talking about the same thing that most religious folks have understood as "God."
Basically, these days "reality" is defined by the physical sciences, which in turn is contrasted with "ideas" which is defined by philosophy and theology, and to a certain extent, other disciplines as well. If you have pre-determined that, by definition,
a. God is supernatural, and
b. nothing is outside of nature
then you will never be able to use the cultivated religious terminology meaningfully.
Here is my suggestion. Look at your own experience and your own perspective as it stands. Is there are higher power than yourself? Is there something bigger than you? If so, what is it?
If there is nothing bigger than you, then you are truly an atheist humanist. On the other hand, if there is, then the problem we are having is a matter of semantics. You are defining God narrowly when the "reality" or "idea" is supposed to be interpreted broadly. You cannot inquire into God's existence. If God is anything worth thinking about, he's not a "being" "floating" "somewhere" "above" us. I AM WHAT I AM.
You must determine for yourself whether it is meaningful to call something in your experience "God" and what that means. Forget Christian fundamentalism. It's a dead end, because it tries to fight an unwinnable war, trying to conceive of God scientifically. You have moved beyond that. So don't limit religious thought by what you've already superseded. Expand your mind.
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No you are not. You obviously did not read those stories with any sense of soberness. You are easily decieved, you ignore God altogether. Don't think God will praise you for you new found intelligence, for you choose to have none, at the risk of your own life. Open up your hard heart before it is too late. I hope in your old age when your hair is sprinkled with grey that you regain some sense, but I fear you may not even notice its appearing.
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drich0150
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You are trying to look for God in a realm that He is not to be found in. You are looking for the type of evidence or proof that places Him in a position to be weighed and measure by man. If He were in that position, He would cease to be God. Because how could the finite comprehend the infinite?
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying there isn't any proof or evidence of the existence of God.. There just isn't any "scientific proof" or a scientific standard in which you could write a paper on..
If you seek God, I believe the majority of what you need to find God for yourself is available to you, but not in a generic reproducible way. (God is not a magic trick or an experiment, to be summoned by man at parties or in controlled settings)
To experience God in a genuine way, you need to be open to a personal relationship, and a personal experience with Him first. And then your "proof" will come.. It will come in the form most meaningful to you personally, but can be easily be explained away by those who wish to not know God.
God tells us that he hides Himself from the self appointed wise and learned, but reveals Himself to the humble and meek of heart. If you earnestly seek God, do it on His terms and not your own. Otherwise you will end up with what you started out looking for in the first place. Reassurance in your own form of worship (Science/History)
It's kinda like fishing in the desert, If you truly want to catch fish you must go to water. The fish won't come to you just because you have created a self glorifying technique to "fish" in the sand..
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traditionalist
This is who I am. No more, no less
Im curious to know what type of "evidence" is required to make you believe in God again?
A smoking Gun type of evidence, like God physically waving at you, or the more personal evidence like the feeling of Gods warmth in your heart after a trying day?
I believe that there is real, scientific proof as to a God,
a philosophical proof given by C.S. Lewis has always seemed rational to me:
If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought processes are mere accidents, the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the materialists’ and astronomers’ as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts, i.e., of Materialism and Astronomy are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give a correct account of all the other accidents"
I believe that the complexity of the human eye, the reliability on the historical content of the Bible amongst a wide variety of things is proof of an actual God. If your looking for proof in the form of Gods physical presence then I would ask you to seriously study Exodus, but from Gods point of view,
He lived amongst His people. He provided there food needs everyday with mana. He assured them victory over enemies, victory over troubles etc....God lived amongst his people during this time EXACTLY like many atheists or Agnostics are asking him to now. Yet his people still turned away from him He made himself present in a pillar of cloud and fire. To the Israelites there was no doubt that God existed. You could see Him. Yet they still built false Idols, they still distrusted his word, they still turned away from him. In fact Gods directness had the opposite effect on the Israelites than what you would think. They did not respond with worship or love, but with fear and open rebellion. No wonder that God doesnt want to do it again. I believe God doesnt reveal himself in such a way anymore because IT DOES NOT WORK, read the old testement and it is a history of Gods physical presence and intervention NOT WORKING. Another example is with Solomon. God granted him a truly blessed life, wealth power and wisdom. Yet he was the King that introduced and sanctioned Idol worship into the kingdom. He had hundreds of Wives etc etc. prehaps God has not intervened in your life like you have demanded because God knows that it would not work, like it never has There is an interesting quote that I have come across in my struggle with exactly the same issues you are facing that gave me a moments pause to consider:
"Without somehow destroying me in the process, how could God reveal himself in a way that would leave no room for doubt? If there were no room for doubt, there would be no room for me." - Frederick Buechner
A smoking Gun type of evidence, like God physically waving at you, or the more personal evidence like the feeling of Gods warmth in your heart after a trying day?
I believe that there is real, scientific proof as to a God,
a philosophical proof given by C.S. Lewis has always seemed rational to me:
If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought processes are mere accidents, the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the materialists’ and astronomers’ as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts, i.e., of Materialism and Astronomy are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give a correct account of all the other accidents"
I believe that the complexity of the human eye, the reliability on the historical content of the Bible amongst a wide variety of things is proof of an actual God. If your looking for proof in the form of Gods physical presence then I would ask you to seriously study Exodus, but from Gods point of view,
He lived amongst His people. He provided there food needs everyday with mana. He assured them victory over enemies, victory over troubles etc....God lived amongst his people during this time EXACTLY like many atheists or Agnostics are asking him to now. Yet his people still turned away from him He made himself present in a pillar of cloud and fire. To the Israelites there was no doubt that God existed. You could see Him. Yet they still built false Idols, they still distrusted his word, they still turned away from him. In fact Gods directness had the opposite effect on the Israelites than what you would think. They did not respond with worship or love, but with fear and open rebellion. No wonder that God doesnt want to do it again. I believe God doesnt reveal himself in such a way anymore because IT DOES NOT WORK, read the old testement and it is a history of Gods physical presence and intervention NOT WORKING. Another example is with Solomon. God granted him a truly blessed life, wealth power and wisdom. Yet he was the King that introduced and sanctioned Idol worship into the kingdom. He had hundreds of Wives etc etc. prehaps God has not intervened in your life like you have demanded because God knows that it would not work, like it never has There is an interesting quote that I have come across in my struggle with exactly the same issues you are facing that gave me a moments pause to consider:
"Without somehow destroying me in the process, how could God reveal himself in a way that would leave no room for doubt? If there were no room for doubt, there would be no room for me." - Frederick Buechner
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The evidence is out there in plain view; but if I share it with you will you believe it? In fact, the bible has an overwhelming amount of circumstancial evidence that supports it - more than anything in history. First read, The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning circumstancial evidence) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest) and A Case for Faith by Lee Strobel (a former athiest).
Biblical Circumstancial Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)
Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible
- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)
**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.
-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10
Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.
Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.
External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)
Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
I'm a christian for spiritual reasons first, and intellectual reasons second. I can show you all the evidence but is your heart ready? The old saying is you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink- I can lead you to the evidence but I can't make your heart accept Christ. Its obvious that the likelyhood is that there is a God - who created the trees and you? Did your car just appear in thin air? Don't think so. So, how could the human body being 1000 times more complicated than your car just appear in thin air?
Biblical Circumstancial Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)
Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible
- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)
**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.
-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10
Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.
Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.
External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)
Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
I'm a christian for spiritual reasons first, and intellectual reasons second. I can show you all the evidence but is your heart ready? The old saying is you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink- I can lead you to the evidence but I can't make your heart accept Christ. Its obvious that the likelyhood is that there is a God - who created the trees and you? Did your car just appear in thin air? Don't think so. So, how could the human body being 1000 times more complicated than your car just appear in thin air?
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traditionalist
This is who I am. No more, no less
maybe his idea of Hell?
Mine involves a classroom of screaming kids and me trying to uncoil a neverending rope.
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leftrightleftrightleft
Well-Known Member
I am Christian, but I was a non-Christian once and I know that this kind of argument simply doesn't work against a non-Christian. The reason it doesn't work is because you are presupposing the Bible to be true. The person you are trying to convince is not presupposing this so your arguments sound circular and flawed. If the Bible is false then the prophecies of the Messiah coming could have been "fulfilled" by the writers of the New Testament by manipulating facts about Jesus' life so that the prophecies fit like puzzle pieces into his life story.
I could make a book that fulfills all the things you just stated quite easily. All I would have to do is state that my book is the word of God. Then I would state that in 3 years dinosaurs will roam the earth. Three years from now I could return to the book and "make my prophecy true" by stating that dinosaurs now roam the Earth. To a non-Christian, that's how your argument sounds. Because the Bible is the text that is in question, you can't use the Bible's truth or legitimacy to prove that the Bible is true and legitimate. It's a circular argument.
I believe in Jesus and God not necessarily because of firm historical and scientific fact but because it makes sense (the Trinity, Resurrection, Morality etc) and I see God working in my life around me. To me, atheists are flawed in their "belief" that science is objective, that science is truthful and that the scientific method is the best method for describing and discovering "reality". To "prove" the existence of God to an atheist is impossible. God isn't something to see, He is something to feel. And science is emotionless, so how can you feel God through science?
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