Question For United Church of Christ Members

[Romans Road]

With all due respect, does it bother you that the United Church of Christ is a member of an organization that fights to keep abortion legal and wants to make it tax payer funded? The organiztion is the Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice.

RCRC - Health Care Reform - Without Added Abortion Restrictions

 

[tulipbee]

With all due respect, does it bother you that the United Church of Christ is a member of an organization that fights to keep abortion legal and wants to make it tax payer funded?

It sort of bothers me. I wonder if it's ok since God will take care of traumatic things like that. Maybe the unborn were predestined to be unborn. It beats me why bad things happen to good people.

 

[Romans Road]

It sort of bothers me. I wonder if it's ok since God will take care of traumatic things like that. Maybe the unborn were predestined to be unborn. It beats me why bad things happen to good people.

If we look at it that way, we would have to say the same things about rape, assault, and murder of a person who has been born. we wouldn't fight to keep those things legal and say that they may have been predestined to die or get raped.

As Christians we are supposed be a light in a dark world. Looking the other way when it comes to rape, theft, murder,abortion, etc is not being a light. What do you think?

 

[tulipbee]

If we look at it that way, we would have to say the same things about rape, assault, and murder of a person who has been born. we wouldn't fight to keep those things legal and say that they may have been predestined to die or get raped.

As Christians we are supposed be a light in a dark world. Looking the other way when it comes to rape, theft, murder,abortion, etc is not being a light. What do you think?

I think some parts of the society's behaviors are part of the big grand plan. I could be all wrong.

 

[b.hopeful]

I'm sure, like with any other religious denomination, you will find people that support or oppose some of it's works.

For many people, the issue of abortion is very political. I think some people really focus on the destruction of the fetus..and others really focus on giving the government control over a woman's reproduction. They are approaching the political issue from two different viewpoints. I think we should be mindful of both positions. Acknowledge that a human life is ending...acknowledge that government intrusion into a person's right to control their reproduction is potentially dangerous.(look at China's one child policy)

 

[b.hopeful]

Well...we have also agreed that not all killing is equal. We have the death penalty and war and even various degrees of murder when it comes to unlawful killing and we allow people to kill in self defense. So we, as a nation, consistently say that not all taking of life is equal. I see this as allowing the woman carrying the child to determine what type of "killing" is being done. If a woman is prolife, she views it as murder and the government should not make her abort. However, some women are compromised by pregnancy and they decide it more of an act of self defense. I really don't want to pick apart the debate because it's been done for 36 years and beyond...just wanted to point out that as a nation...we are not consistent about the taking of life.

The Bible is pretty quiet on abortion. If you say, what about the thou shalt not murder..we go back to the first point which is...we are very inconsistent when it comes to what quantifies as murder.

 

[b.hopeful]

Then by all means...don't support or join a church that is prochoice.

Whether or not you are prochoice is purely a political matter. Many people that are prochoice, meaning they believe the choice lies with the woman and not the government, are not willing to have abortions themselves. The question is not always do you agree with abortions...but, do you think that's a decision best left to the government? Some people are comfortable saying "this is my religious belief/moral conviction/etc yet here is my political belief." Not everyone wants to mingle the two. Many people do not want to live in a country where a religious majority consensus rules the land.

 

[b.hopeful]

FTR...this is my last post on this subject here. I'm pretty certain this post breaks CF rules about coming into denominations and debating. There is a folder where abortion can be debated. As a non UCC member, this is not the place for you to address it and now that I realize this....I'm pretty certain I shouldn't have engaged in this discussion here.

 

[Supernaut]

With all due respect, does it bother you that the United Church of Christ is a member of an organization that fights to keep abortion legal and wants to make it tax payer funded? The organiztion is the Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice.

RCRC - Health Care Reform - Without Added Abortion Restrictions

With all due respect, your post seems to be targeting both us and our church. It is not appreciated and is in violation of the CF rules for this subforum.

If you would like to respectfully discuss the general UCC ideals, then ask appropriately.

 

[tulipbee]

. . . It is very clear that God knew us before we were born. . . .

I guess that means God knew who were going to be aborted in that they were predestined. That made me think about the twin in the old testament. I forgot what part but it was well known that God loved one of the unborn twins and hated the other unborn twins. Should we have aborted Hitler before he was born? Sometimes I wonder if there were other plans for the aborted.

 

[tulipbee]

With all due respect, your post seems to be targeting both us and our church. It is not appreciated and is in violation of the CF rules for this subforum.

If you would like to respectfully discuss the general UCC ideals, then ask appropriately.

Perhaps the Original Poster wanted to know what the United Church of Christ stand on abortion. Maybe the church is up his street and might join them. Maybe be honest so the Lord can draw him to his nearest local church. I would like to learn of the rules that was broken here.

 

[Supernaut]

If we look at it that way, we would have to say the same things about rape, assault, and murder of a person who has been born. we wouldn't fight to keep those things legal and say that they may have been predestined to die or get raped.

As Christians we are supposed be a light in a dark world. Looking the other way when it comes to rape, theft, murder,abortion, etc is not being a light.

Abortion kills a human life. Anyone who thinks that abortion should be legal on the theory that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body would have to logically should support making prostitution legal, making all drugs legal, and even allowing people to mutilate themseves, etc.

The most important thing is what glorifies God? Is allowing a baby be born glorify God or does having an abortion glorify God? Without a doubt, allowing a baby to be born glorifies God and abortion does not.

Yes, the Bible does address abortion to some degree. It is very clear that God knew us before we were born. If you go back to the original languages, the same term used for an unborn child is the same as one who has been born. The Bible states that God hates hands that sheds innocent blood.

Based upon the reading of the Gospels, what do you think Jesus would have said or done if he was directly asked about abortion? Would he rebuke an abortionist or would he give him his blessing? I think that he would rebuke the practice.

The real question is should a church join a group that is fighting to make abortion legal? I would have to say no.

We can talk all night about the meaning of the word murder. However, lets be honest and look at what abortion is. How does it glorify God to cut a living being up while in womb or to ram sharp objects into its head? There is no way to glorify God in that type of procedure.

If we cannot say without a doubt when life begins than we have to lean towards life?

Perhaps the Original Poster wanted to know what the United Church of Christ stand on abortion. Maybe the church is up his street and might join them. Maybe be honest so the Lord can draw him to his nearest local church. I would like to learn of the rules that was broken here.

Perhaps your post is trying to convey a very weak excuse for the OP's direct attack on the UCC and it's members. I am not of the opinion that the OP has any desire whatsoever to join a local UCC.

Not everyone in the UCC supports abortion, myself included, but most of agree that the Gov has no right to restrict a womans right to her own body.

Everything highlighted from the OP and the responses by that poster are blatant arguements, baiting, and attempt to debate which is clearly prohibited by CF rules.

 

[Supernaut]

Perhaps a MOD or ADMIN can step in and let us know if this is indeed a violation or not.

 

[tulipbee]

. . .Everything highlighted from the OP and the responses by that poster are blatant arguements, baiting, and attempt to debate which is clearly prohibited by CF rules.

where can I find the rules?

 

[Supernaut]

where can I find the rules?

You may look at the statement of faith found on the main subforum page of the United Church of Christ.

Here is a highlighted portion for you to read:


House Rules-

All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

 

[Evenstar253]

I believe the simple answer to the OP's question would be that no, most UCC members wouldn't be uncomfortable with the denomination's stance. If they were and felt strongly about the issue, there are plenty of other churches they could join.

Although I'm not UCC myself, I would feel just as comfortable being a member of the UCC as I am the PCUSA, and in fact when I move, I plan to check out churches of both denominations. I think I'm close enough to the UCC to respond to this; but what got lost somewhere along the way is the fact that the original question was addressed to UCC members, not to anyone who happens to have an opinion on abortion.

The initial question, baited as it may be, doesn't break the debating rules, but basically everything after that does. It's no different than if we UCC and UCC-supporter types went into the conservative areas to debate abortion. Heck, even though the Presbyterian forum is technically open to liberal as well as conservative Presbyterians, I'm not going to go there to debate issues like this, since I don't care to stir up unnecessary drama (which seemed to be the only purpose of this thread).

 

[Supernaut]

I believe the simple answer to the OP's question would be that no, most UCC members wouldn't be uncomfortable with the denomination's stance. If they were and felt strongly about the issue, there are plenty of other churches they could join.

Although I'm not UCC myself, I would feel just as comfortable being a member of the UCC as I am the PCUSA, and in fact when I move, I plan to check out churches of both denominations. I think I'm close enough to the UCC to respond to this; but what got lost somewhere along the way is the fact that the original question was addressed to UCC members, not to anyone who happens to have an opinion on abortion.

The initial question, baited as it may be, doesn't break the debating rules, but basically everything after that does. It's no different than if we UCC and UCC-supporter types went into the conservative areas to debate abortion. Heck, even though the Presbyterian forum is technically open to liberal as well as conservative Presbyterians, I'm not going to go there to debate issues like this, since I don't care to stir up unnecessary drama (which seemed to be the only purpose of this thread).

You are a UCC member....maybe not technically yet...lol...but you are!

 

[Evenstar253]

You are a UCC member....maybe not technically yet...lol...but you are!

 

[tulipbee]

What is UUC? What are their beliefs? It would help if someone would compare UUC with Presbyterian church so it would be easier for me to understand. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask this question on this topic. This message is not meant for debate but I wonder what changes I would get if I move to UUC from Presbyterian. Just curious. I've notice someone posted here that there are similarities between UUC and Presbyterians. I'm wondering if there is.

 

[Evenstar253]

Well, there are similarities between UCC and some of the more liberal Presbyterians (i.e. PCUSA)...probably not between UCC and conservative Presbyterians.